WTB: Sony SMC-70G Software, Peripherals, Manuals, Etc.
Apergy at aol.com
Apergy at aol.com
Mon Dec 29 10:12:00 CST 2008
Please contact me directly at _apergy at aol.com_ (mailto:apergy at aol.com) .
Happy New Year,
Randy
In a message dated 12/29/2008 11:06:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cctalk-request at classiccmp.org writes:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Ethan Dicks)
2. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Jerome H. Fine)
3. Re: [SPAM] - Re: Suggestions for VT103? - Sending mail server
found on dnsbl.sorbs.net (Jerome H. Fine)
4. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Jerome H. Fine)
5. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Jerome H. Fine)
6. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Jerome H. Fine)
7. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Doc Shipley)
8. RE: Heathkit manuals under tighter control (dwight elvey)
9. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Sridhar Ayengar)
10. uIEC/SD == AWESOME! (Zane H. Healy)
11. Re: Jupiter Ace - PCBs and such (Dave McGuire)
12. Re: uIEC/SD == AWESOME! (Jim Brain)
13. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Ethan Dicks)
14. Facit 4431 terminal (Johnny Billquist)
15. Re: 4.3BSD Quasijarus (der Mouse)
16. ACCRC Sealed-Bid Auction Lot #2 Ready (Sellam Ismail)
17. Re: Jupiter Ace - PCBs and such (Alexandre Souza)
18. Re: 4.3BSD Quasijarus (Sridhar Ayengar)
19. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Diane Bruce)
20. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Sridhar Ayengar)
21. Re: Suggestions for VT103? (Diane Bruce)
22. Re: uIEC/SD == AWESOME! (Zane H. Healy)
23. MK11 with 1MB boards (Johnny Billquist)
24. PDP-11/70 cache memory (Johnny Billquist)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:26:24 -0500
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<f4eb766f0812281826r1374d1a3j84fc51b93785b4a7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>
>> What you are after is rosin-core lead-based solder around 60/40 or
>> 63/37 tin/lead, with a diameter around 0.5mm (.020") to 0.8mm (.032").
>
> I highly recommend 63/37 over 60/40. I find it easer to work with.
Sure, but I'd never _not_ do a project because all I had on hand was
60/40, though.
-ethan
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:36:29 -0500
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <495837AD.2060707 at compsys.to>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Tony Duell wrote:
>I refuse to beleive it takes you over an hour to solder one connection! :-)
>
>
Jerome Fine replies:
Well, maybe soldering a VT103 backplane was not so bad, but I seem to
remember the
problems I once had with a DRV11 module. It needed to be strapped, but
the only way that
DEC provided to change the CSR value was with zero ohm resistors.
Removing a strap just
meant cutting out a resistor. But I found it impossible to add a
resistor. Finally after several
hours of unsuccessful attempts (and almost damaging the board), I solved
the problem by
removing a few male connector pins from a damaged board and soldering
them into the
appropriate holes where the zero ohm resistor leads would normally be
placed. Since the
very tiny pin was easy to manipulate and could be easily inserted into a
melted solder hole,
I ended up with two pins which I could them wire wrap since the pins
were very similar to
wire wrap posts in the first place. Why DEC had not done that to start
with I don't know,
but I finally did change the CSR value. And it took about TWO hours
each to finally insert
each pin.
Needless to say, I am not a bit fan of making solder connections at this
point.
>>As far I my experience is worth, the upgrade to a 22 bit backplane with
>>the version DEC
>>provides in the VT103 works VERY well. I watched over at least 6 VT103s
>>
>That does not suprise me. I was under the impression that some very early
>Q-bus modules used at least one of those pins for something else (I've
>seen 3rd-party Q-bus cards with 22 bit DMA capability where the bus
>driver for thsoe upper 4 address lines (normally a '38 or similar) is
>socketed with instructions to remove it if used in certain backplanes)
>but I suspect the VT103 is late enoguh for this not to be an issue.
>
>
As far as I know, the LSI-11 CPU modules (both dual and quad) do use
some of those address lines.
But the M8186, M8189, M8190 and M8192 can't since they all support 22
bit addresses for
memory.
So the VT103 backplane from DEC with 18 bit address lines probably
supports the use of
the LSI-11 CPUs, but not after modification to 22 bit addresses. Since
the PDP-11/73 CPUs
are now readily available, I can't see anyone using an LSI-11 CPU at
this point except in VERY
unusual situations which require the LSI-11 CPU for a special reason -
like the microcode which
can be modified. I don't know of anyone who ever modified the microcode
for an LSI-11 CPU.
That is not to say that I will not invent new PDP-11 instructions such
as an UNSIGNED multiply,
32 bit multiply and divide which will be implemented under Ersatz-11.
But as the fellow in Irma
La Duce said "That is another story."
>>The really cool reason to use a VT103 is that a hard drive can be placed
>>right under the CRT.
>>
>I wonder about stray magnetic fields from the yoke and/or flybackj
>transformer. Not that they'll corrupt the magnetic patterns on the disk,
>but that they'll be picked up by the read amplifier anf cause random data
>erros. But I guess it works OK.
>
>
Not knowing about stray magnetic fields, I just put an ST412 (actually a
DEC RD51) under the
tube and started to run. This used a Sigma RQD11-B MFM controller (dual
board with boot
ROMs) with an M8186. Worked great. Made them available to Ontario
Hydro as a work
station. Since they were already using the VT103 with a dual RX02
floppy drive, the hard
drive was a huge improvement. They ran RT-11 and having a 10 MByte hard
drive rather
than a 0.5 Mbyte floppy made a huge improvement. Expensive at the time,
but worth while
for commercial use.
>>The one problem of using the VT103 is that the power supply is really
>>too limited, although with
>>only 4 slots, not a lot of power needed. Tony, perhaps you might be
>>able to suggest how
>>the 5 amp supply could be enhanced? On the other hand, with a BA23
>>
>>
>
>Do you mean '5 amp' or '5 volt' here? I was under the impression it was
>around 15A or so at 5V.
>
>
Yes! I did mean the 5 Volt which is limited to 16 Amps on the VT103.
And that includes
all of the boards, including the VT100 video card and anything else in
the VT100 which uses
the 5 Volt level.
>Increasing the rating of a PSU is not easy in general. Many of the
>components would need replacign with higher-rated parts, including the
>transformer (whether linear or switch-mode), the rectifiers, smoothing
>capacitors (increase in capacitance value), chopper transistors (if an
>SMSPU), pass transistors (if a linear design), etc.and of course you'd have
>modify any current limit circuitry. It'd probably be easier to design a
>replacement PSU from scratch to fit in the same space.
>
>
I thought as much. I will continue to use the BA23 and BA123 for now.
Since the core 2 duo
CPU runs Windows XP which runs Ersatz-11 which runs RT-11 at more than
100 times the
speed of a PDP-11/93, it is not likely that I will be using a real DEC
CPU much in any case.
By the way, with SATA II drives, the disk I/O is probably 200 times
faster than any ESDI or
SCSI drive connected to a PDP-11.
>>As for modes of failure, how often should a power supply be used to be
>>sure that keeping it out
>>of service does not cause a failure when the power supply is used after
>>a few years? Does anyone
>>have any recommendations?
>>
>About the only thing that'll fail from not being used are electrolytic
>capacitors, and I am not convinced this is a major problem with
>modern-ish ones. Certainly it's not a failure I've ever encountered (yes,
>I've had electrolytics fail, but not by the oxide-film disolving due to
>them not being used).
>
I probably turn on the PDP-11/83 about 2 times a year. Since I had 2
BA123 power supplies
fail in the past 10 years, I wondered about having to use them or loose
them. At one point,
I was told by a company that I did some software programming for that
their major customer
required them to run the PDP-11 systems every 3 months until delivery
which was not to be
for 2 years. Thus the reason for my question.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:37:02 -0500
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Suggestions for VT103? - Sending mail server
found on dnsbl.sorbs.net
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <495837CE.9070208 at compsys.to>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Josh Dersch wrote:
> >Glen Slick wrote:
>
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/terminal/vt103/MP00731_VT103_Aug80.pdf
>>
>> Page 73 of 76, VT103 BACKPLANE
>
> So forgive my inexperience here -- but just to make sure I'm
> understanding the changes I need to make -- is all that's necessary
> just wiring up the address lines (18-21) from slot 1, to slot 2, to
> slot 3, to slot 4?
Jerome Fine replies:
Don't forget that both ABs in each slot need to be wired in since each
quad slot
can hold 2 dual boards. That means a total of 8 solder joints for each
address line
and a total of 32 solder joints for all 4 address lines.
Very fine insulated wire wrap seems to be a good solution. The plastic
insulation
can be stretched after each solder joint is made to cover the wire right
up to the
solder joint. A wire stripper can be used to custom cut the insulation
at the exact
spot needed - cut a bit short and stretch the insulation after the
solder is cold. Then
daisy chain from slot to slot as needed. Start with the first solder
joint with about
2" of free wire, then custom cut the insulation to the correct length
for the second
solder joint on the same slot (second AB on that slot). It probably
helps to keep
the wires as neat as possible since the next address line is very close.
> Also, just to satisfy my curiosity -- it's been mentioned by several
> people that lead-based solder is necessary -- why is this? (I think I
> have a spool of it somewhere that I liberated from my grandfather's
> basement some years back, but I'll have to dig it up...)
Ethan answered this much better than my limited knowledge!
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:38:02 -0500
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4958380A.2040204 at compsys.to>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Josh Dersch wrote:
> I have a number of RQDX3's, but I'll probably go with the Emulex QD21
> ESDI controller that I have. It has an auto-boot option, which will
> be useful since the 11/23 board I have just has the ODT ROMs...
Jerome Fine replies:
I use a Sigma RQD11-EC quad ESDI controller which can run 4 ESDI drives.
What I like best is that 3 drives are VERY easily (just ground the
correct line)
made WRITE PROTECTED. Not having a proper panel, I just use a 10 pin
cable and alligator clips to ground the line.
The Hitachi DK515 with about 600 MBytes each work well. I modified the
RT-11 MSCP device driver to allow me to boot any of the 60 partitions on the
3 drives. Normally, I use 3 drives with 2 being backups and only drive
0 with
20 RT-11 partitions being modified at any time. All drives are usually
WRITE
PROTECTED most of the time since I normally fix bugs in the RT-11 operating
system and the device drivers. Since any mistakes in my code modifications
could corrupt the hard drive, having them hardware WRITE PROTECTED
prevents that until I have checked out the code. After I have made the
changes
to the backup drives, I boot the backup drive and copy the changes to
drive 0
which is now just a data drive.
I have 2 command files which compare all 20 partitions on drive 0 to each of
the 20 partitions on drive 1 or drive 2. That takes about 4 minutes for
each
pair of RT-11 partitions of 32 MBytes each or about 80 minutes in total.
Under Ersatz-11 with a core 2 duo, it takes about 1.7 seconds per pair of
RT-11 partitions of 32 MBytes or about 30 seconds for all 20 pair of RT-11
partitions - not even time to get a drink. I am working on enhancing
the HD:
device driver under Ersatz-11. It is twice as fast as the MSCP device
driver.
For raw throughput, if I bypass the HD: device driver code and use a user
subroutine without interrupts (hardly necessary when things are this fast),
making a copy of an RT-11 partition of 32 MBytes is twice as fast again.
A straight copy is about 0.2 seconds for all 32 MBytes as opposed to
about 240 seconds the copy an RT-11 partition on those very fast (for
a real DEC PDP-11/83 system) ESDI hard drives.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:39:02 -0500
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <49583846.4070900 at compsys.to>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at mail.msu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>Also, just to satisfy my curiosity -- it's been mentioned by several
people
>>that lead-based solder is necessary -- why is this?
>>
>>
>
>Because the equipment was made with lead-based solder (being many,
>many years older than the RoHS directives), and mixing lead-free and
>lead-based solder is not a good idea. I'm sure someone here can quote
>chapter and verse, but AFAIK, you'll get unreliable solder joints if
>you try.
>
>
>
>>(I think I have a spool
>>of it somewhere that I liberated from my grandfather's basement some years
>>back, but I'll have to dig it up...)
>>
>>
>
>If that's plumbing solder, you are unlikely to get good results.
>Really, really old plumbing solder _is_ lead-based, but most of what
>you are likely to find is not (so that it's safe to use on supply
>lines). Plumbing solder is also frequently acid-cored or fluxless. I
>don't recall running into any plumbing solder that is compatible with
>electronic circuits.
>
>Now...if your grandfather was a Ham or did electronic repairs, what
>you have might be just perfect, but be sure you have the right stuff
>before you get started.
>
>What you are after is rosin-core lead-based solder around 60/40 or
>63/37 tin/lead, with a diameter around 0.5mm (.020") to 0.8mm (.032").
> The exact ratio of lead to tin is not critical, nor is the exact
>diameter, but since you aren't doing ultra-fine work or trying to
>solder down something huge and heavy, like bundles of power-supply
>leads or RF cages, I'd recommend something "medium" weight, like the
>0.8mm (.032").
>
>There should be a label on one end of the spool (if it's still on the
>original spool) describing the various characteristics. If you aren't
>practiced at making good joints, I'd recommend getting an inexpensive
>electronic hobby kit to practice on. My earliest efforts from when I
>was in Jr. High are rather ugly - by the time I was adding blue wires
>to $2000 boards at work five years later, I'd gotten much, much better
>from the early practice.
>
>
Very helpful - thank you!
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:42:57 -0500
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <49583931.4090103 at compsys.to>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
[Snip]
Sorry about the subject line - my son modifies it when his server thinks
it is something suspect.
> >Josh Dersch wrote:
>
>> >Glen Slick wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/terminal/vt103/MP00731_VT103_Aug80.pdf
>>>
>>> Page 73 of 76, VT103 BACKPLANE
>>
>>
>> So forgive my inexperience here -- but just to make sure I'm
>> understanding the changes I need to make -- is all that's necessary
>> just wiring up the address lines (18-21) from slot 1, to slot 2, to
>> slot 3, to slot 4?
>
>
> Jerome Fine replies:
>
> Don't forget that both ABs in each slot need to be wired in since each
> quad slot
> can hold 2 dual boards. That means a total of 8 solder joints for
> each address line
> and a total of 32 solder joints for all 4 address lines.
>
> Very fine insulated wire wrap seems to be a good solution. The
> plastic insulation
> can be stretched after each solder joint is made to cover the wire
> right up to the
> solder joint. A wire stripper can be used to custom cut the
> insulation at the exact
> spot needed - cut a bit short and stretch the insulation after the
> solder is cold. Then
> daisy chain from slot to slot as needed. Start with the first solder
> joint with about
> 2" of free wire, then custom cut the insulation to the correct length
> for the second
> solder joint on the same slot (second AB on that slot). It probably
> helps to keep
> the wires as neat as possible since the next address line is very close.
>
>> Also, just to satisfy my curiosity -- it's been mentioned by several
>> people that lead-based solder is necessary -- why is this? (I think
>> I have a spool of it somewhere that I liberated from my grandfather's
>> basement some years back, but I'll have to dig it up...)
>
>
> Ethan answered this much better than my limited knowledge!
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Jerome Fine
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:53:23 -0600
From: Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <495849B3.6020708 at mdrconsult.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> What you are after is rosin-core lead-based solder around 60/40 or
>> 63/37 tin/lead, with a diameter around 0.5mm (.020") to 0.8mm (.032").
>
> I highly recommend 63/37 over 60/40. I find it easer to work with.
I had the dubious distinction of being a "Certified Solder Operator"
for TI's Lubbock, TX plant (in, what, '82?). Although the training I
got there spoiled me forever in some ways, it's been invaluable over the
years.
One of the things that stuck was the "true purpose" of eutectic
solder. We always used 60/40 for original or initial soldering, and
eutectic for repairs or "oversolders". If you have a good iron and a
good eye (or, these days, good Optivisor), the flow-point difference
allows doing new work without disturbing old joints.
Doc
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:04:44 -0800
From: dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Heathkit manuals under tighter control
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <COL107-W56ACC5C91959AB0F1EED01A3E60 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:58:00 -0600
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> From: jfoust at threedee.com
> Subject: Heathkit manuals under tighter control
>
>
> http://techdirt.com/articles/20081215/0106043118.shtml
>
>
> - John
>
Hi
Technically, if you have a H89 or such and you've lost
the manual, you have a right to a copy of the manual
without paying any copyright fee. The manual is already
payed for.
Still, if they have the copyright, they can have it removed
from the web if they can prove it is used for anything
other than replacing lost manuals.
I'm no lawyer and this is just a personal opinion.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista®.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:10:19 -0500
From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <49584DAB.1000500 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>> What you are after is rosin-core lead-based solder around 60/40 or
>>> 63/37 tin/lead, with a diameter around 0.5mm (.020") to 0.8mm (.032").
>> I highly recommend 63/37 over 60/40. I find it easer to work with.
>
> Sure, but I'd never _not_ do a project because all I had on hand was
> 60/40, though.
Oh no, that's not what I'm saying at all. It's just that, if I'm going
to be buying lead solder, I'll buy 63/37 every time.
Peace... Sridhar
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:24:08 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
Subject: uIEC/SD == AWESOME!
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <p06240800c57d8d8ad10d@[192.168.1.199]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
The uIEC/SD I bought from Jim Brain was delivered Friday night (USPS
was actually unable to deliver for several days in our area). My
mail is currently going to a different location than we're living, so
I picked it up yesterday, and retrieved my customized C64 from
storage, and got everything plugged in last night (this was the first
time we'd been able to get our car out of the driveway in over two
weeks).
Once I figured out how to use it, all I can say it is seriously cool,
way better than my MMC-Replay for dealing with D64 images, and it was
a lot cheaper! I'm even able to use it with the MMC-Replay plugged
in so I have my Ethernet connection. With the MMC-Replay I was only
able to get one or two D64 images to work, with the uIEC most I've
tried have worked. I've been playing "Temple of Apshai" all day and
having a blast! :-)
Now to decide if I put it in some sort of case, or if I mount it
inside the C64 somehow.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:30:28 -0500
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace - PCBs and such
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <36662B2D-068D-4CD9-B096-F1129A6CCCA3 at neurotica.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On Dec 28, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:
>>> BTW I was given a bare unpopulated Ace board for Christmas, I
>>> have taken some scans of it but at 1200dpi they are *HUGE*
>> I'd be willing to turn those scans into Gerber files if you send
>> them to me..
>
> That would be cool, an eagle board layout would be better still.....
>
> Let me see if I can zip em up small, I'll prolly upload them to a
> server at work (and email off list) as it has much more bandwidth
> than I do and they are really huge :)
I use PCB, not Eagle, (see http://www.geda.seul.org/) but getting
them into SOME maintainable format would be better than nothing.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:33:44 -0600
From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com>
Subject: Re: uIEC/SD == AWESOME!
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Cc: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <49586F48.3090205 at jbrain.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Zane H. Healy wrote:
> The uIEC/SD I bought from Jim Brain was delivered Friday night (USPS
> was actually unable to deliver for several days in our area). My mail
> is currently going to a different location than we're living, so I
> picked it up yesterday, and retrieved my customized C64 from storage,
> and got everything plugged in last night (this was the first time we'd
> been able to get our car out of the driveway in over two weeks).
>
> Once I figured out how to use it, all I can say it is seriously cool,
> way better than my MMC-Replay for dealing with D64 images, and it was
> a lot cheaper! I'm even able to use it with the MMC-Replay plugged in
> so I have my Ethernet connection. With the MMC-Replay I was only able
> to get one or two D64 images to work, with the uIEC most I've tried
> have worked. I've been playing "Temple of Apshai" all day and having
> a blast! :-)
>
> Now to decide if I put it in some sort of case, or if I mount it
> inside the C64 somehow.
>
> Zane
>
>
I'm glad you're enjoying it.
As I implied in a previous post, the device has an interesting history
that has shifted my philosophy concerning such projects. I've come to
realize that, in the hobbyist space, collaboration yields much more
fruit for the project, even though one loses the "I did it all myself"
statement. I was always afraid I would never learn as much if I didn't
do it all myself, but that has *NOT* been the case. And, it's nice to
bounce ideas off others when trying to map new concepts like IDE
partitions and such into a 25+ year old platform.
Although I am now biased, I started uIEC because I felt the IDE64 took
away too much flexibility. It assumes the 64 is the only CBM machine,
requires an expansion port, and requires programs use only the normal
KERNAL IEC routines if they are to work. As a VIC/C128 owner, that
seemed wrong.
The MMC64, on the other hand, is more complex to explain. As a
"mega-cart", it's fine (load cart images onto SD card, play lots of cart
or single filer games). But, then they started marketing it as a
general purpose drive unit (or people started assuming it world work
like that), I think it suffered. It's not ideally suited for that use.
There are still things to do with the uIEC base, though. IEEE488
support would be a great win, as then PET/CBM machines would have a
solid state device to use, and I am working on a USB link to a PC, so
one can slave their Win/Mac/Linux box to their CBM. And, for those who
want something more vintage as a target, the protocol is simple RS232 (I
use a RS232->USB converter), so they could add a MAX232 and write a
suitable app for anything that provides RS232.
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 02:02:47 -0500
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<f4eb766f0812282302v60ff9f65pe8ca668b81520d10 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Doc Shipley <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
>> I highly recommend 63/37 over 60/40. I find it easer to work with.
>
> I had the dubious distinction of being a "Certified Solder Operator" for
> TI's Lubbock, TX plant (in, what, '82?). Although the training I got
there
> spoiled me forever in some ways, it's been invaluable over the years.
Neat. I never had formal training - just practical tips and
experience. Oh, wait... I _did_ get one training course - on how to
do SMT benchwork when I was at Lucent... I worked on the plant floor
for a couple of weeks.
> One of the things that stuck was the "true purpose" of eutectic solder.
We
> always used 60/40 for original or initial soldering, and eutectic for
> repairs or "oversolders". If you have a good iron and a good eye (or,
these
> days, good Optivisor), the flow-point difference allows doing new work
> without disturbing old joints.
Ah! I get it. Interesting.
None of the stuff I've done was that finicky, but it's good to know.
-ethan
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:33:15 +0100
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
Subject: Facit 4431 terminal
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <49579C3B.2040307 at softjar.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Anyone have any docs for this terminal? It's a plain glass terminal.
VT100-compatible.
I have a problem with mine, and don't have any kind of documentation. I do
see
that the data lines have junk on them, and the serial port isn't working.
But internal tests pass, and the setup and local mode works fine.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:09:08 -0500 (EST)
From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
Subject: Re: 4.3BSD Quasijarus
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <200812281912.OAA13191 at Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> I guess all the people who still like to run them have SCSI
> controllers on them by now, [...]
I wish. I don't run my uV2, but that's largely because I don't have
more than trivial quantities of disk that's compatible with the Qbus
disk interfaces I have.
At one point it looked as though I might get a Qbus SCSI card that
wasn't bootable (I don't mind netbooting as long as I can _run_ off
local disk), but that never actually materialized....
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:20:57 -0800
From: sellam at vintagetech.com (Sellam Ismail)
Subject: ACCRC Sealed-Bid Auction Lot #2 Ready
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <4958C0A9.mailH7I13DY3H at vintagetech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Announcing: ACCRC Seald-Bid Auction Lot #2
*** This is the last notice that will be sent to the general VCF
mailing list. To ensure you receive further updates regarding this
auction, please visit the VCF website and click the "Mailing List"
link in the navigation tab on the right-hand side or bottom of any
page. Then click on the link to update your contact information and
follow the prompts from there to get into your profile. You should
then select which announcements you want to receive. If you don't
want to receive any more of these auction notices, select "Major
announcements and newsletter only". Otherwise, select "Send me all
VCF announcements".
The Alameda County Computer Resource Center (ACCRC) is forced to
liquidate its computer museum due to the current economic climate.
The VCF has been contracted to auction off the ACCRC museum to raise
needed funds for their non-profit operation.
I have put up the second batch of machines at the following URL:
http://www.vintage.org/special/2008/accrc/
In order to use the system you must have a VCF Community ID. Getting
one is simple: just follow the links and prompts when you visit the
URL above and read the instructions.
The closing time for this lot is Monday, January 5, at 12:00PM PST.
New lots will be posted by noon every Monday on a weekly basis until
all items are depleted. At this rate we expect 4-5 more lots.
ACCRC Sealed-Bid Auction Lot #2
## Description
-- -------------------------------------------------
16 Kaypro 2X
24 Kaypro 1
42 Eagle II
43 HP 41CV Calculator
44 JC Penny Video Sports
45 Timex-Sinclair 1000
46 Stratus V101 Dumb Terminal
47 HP 85
48 Tandy Color Computer 3
49 Calcomp Drawing Board
50 Atari 2600 Video Computer System
51 Tandy CCR-82 Computer Cassette Recorder
52 Generic Lunchbox Portable
53 Atari 830 Acoustic Coupler Modem + 850 Interface
54 Magnavox Odyssey2 Console
55 Commodore Amiga 500
56 GRiDPad 1900
57 Compaq Portable
58 Platinum Apple IIe
59 Processor Technology Sol-20
60 Non-Linear Systems Kaypro 10
Check the item listings at the link above for further information and
details.
All items must be sold. No reasonable offer will be refused. Your
purchases will go towards supporting an organization that over the
years has provided nearly 20,000 refurbished computers to needy
organizations and individuals worldwide. 100% of the proceeds of this
auction will go directly to the ACCRC (minus the handling fees, which
are covering my time...barely).
Best regards,
Sellam Ismail
Proprietor
Vintage Computer Festival
http://www.vintage.org
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:48:36 -0200
From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br>
Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace - PCBs and such
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <08d001c969b3$d10c0c60$46fea8c0 at DeskJara>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
> I'd be interested in how this is done as well. Lots of folks ask me to
> reproduce vintage boards, and creating EAGLE CAD drawings for them is
> time consuming.
It is because eagle sux. A lot. :o)
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:21:28 -0500
From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 4.3BSD Quasijarus
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4958CED8.5050201 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
der Mouse wrote:
>> I guess all the people who still like to run them have SCSI
>> controllers on them by now, [...]
>
> I wish. I don't run my uV2, but that's largely because I don't have
> more than trivial quantities of disk that's compatible with the Qbus
> disk interfaces I have.
>
> At one point it looked as though I might get a Qbus SCSI card that
> wasn't bootable (I don't mind netbooting as long as I can _run_ off
> local disk), but that never actually materialized....
Why not cluster-boot with local swap? Shouldn't be too slow.
Peace... Sridhar
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:54:50 -0500
From: Diane Bruce <db at db.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <20081229135450.GA35079 at night.db.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 09:26:24PM -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >>
> >> What you are after is rosin-core lead-based solder around 60/40 or
> >> 63/37 tin/lead, with a diameter around 0.5mm (.020") to 0.8mm (.032").
> >
> > I highly recommend 63/37 over 60/40. I find it easer to work with.
>
> Sure, but I'd never _not_ do a project because all I had on hand was
> 60/40, though.
As you know, the biggest difference is the lower melting point of 63/37,
that does make it easier to work with.
I don't suppose I need to say this, but never ever ever use the roll of
solder
your father used for plumbing with the acid core. Ever.
>
> -ethan
>
- 73 Diane VA3DB
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:57:38 -0500
From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4958D752.4040607 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Diane Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 09:26:24PM -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>>> What you are after is rosin-core lead-based solder around 60/40 or
>>>> 63/37 tin/lead, with a diameter around 0.5mm (.020") to 0.8mm (.032").
>>> I highly recommend 63/37 over 60/40. I find it easer to work with.
>> Sure, but I'd never _not_ do a project because all I had on hand was
>> 60/40, though.
>
> As you know, the biggest difference is the lower melting point of 63/37,
> that does make it easier to work with.
It's not the lower melting point. It's that the mixture is eutectic.
Peace... Sridhar
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:08:57 -0500
From: Diane Bruce <db at db.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for VT103?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Cc: General Discussion:
Message-ID: <20081229140857.GB35079 at night.db.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 08:57:38AM -0500, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
> Diane Bruce wrote:
> >On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 09:26:24PM -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >>On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>
...
> >>Sure, but I'd never _not_ do a project because all I had on hand was
> >>60/40, though.
> >
> >As you know, the biggest difference is the lower melting point of 63/37,
> >that does make it easier to work with.
>
> It's not the lower melting point. It's that the mixture is eutectic.
Yes I know it is eutectic. But for newbies the lower temperature is much
easier on the board, one tends to lift fewer foils this way. It's also
much easier with a decent soldering station to not lift foils, but if you
don't have such, a lower melting point means the newbie tends not to overdo
it.
Of course, if you are soldering some heavy duty backplane, which I believe
was the start of this thread, I suppose it's not as much of a problem.
But I'd still recommend not using lead/acid solder for a backplane. ;-)
>
> Peace... Sridhar
>
- 73 Diane VA3DB
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 07:59:00 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: uIEC/SD == AWESOME!
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>, General Discussion:
Cc: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <p06240802c57e9ddce09f@[192.168.1.199]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 12:33 AM -0600 12/29/08, Jim Brain wrote:
>The MMC64, on the other hand, is more complex to explain. As a
>"mega-cart", it's fine (load cart images onto SD card, play lots of
>cart or single filer games). But, then they started marketing it as
>a general purpose drive unit (or people started assuming it world
>work like that), I think it suffered. It's not ideally suited for
>that use.
I'm glad I own a MMC-Replay cart, especially with the RRNET option,
but if the uIEC had been available I might not of purchased it.
While you can mount D64 images, you can't run most software from
them. I think the situation might be better on PAL C64's.
I've found that Individual Computers has a habit of advertising
features that don't quite live up to my expectations. I also own a
Catweasel card for my Amiga, and even though I bought it nearly 10
years ago, I'm still a bit ticked over it. If something doesn't
include device drivers, you shouldn't advertise it as supporting
various formats. It basically could read 2 of the floppy types it
claimed to support.
>to use, and I am working on a USB link to a PC, so one can slave
>their Win/Mac/Linux box to their CBM. And, for those who want
>something more vintage as a target, the protocol is simple RS232 (I
>use a RS232->USB converter), so they could add a MAX232 and write a
>suitable app for anything that provides RS232.
If you support Mac & Linux this might be of interest to me. My major
problem with just things has been the fact that it only ever seems to
support Windows, and I don't typically have a Windows machine running.
One question, what size SD cards does the uIEC support, and does it
support HDSD cards? Right now I'm using the 2GB card from my
MMC-Replay and it wants its card back. :-)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:35:28 +0100
From: Johnny Billquist <johnny.billquist at synap.se>
Subject: MK11 with 1MB boards
To: mcguire at neurotica.com
Cc: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4958B600.50405 at synap.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ok. To start with the short version. Get back when you really want more
details.
The deal is to fake the MK11 so that it thinks there are four 256KB
cards when you have a 1MB card.
The memory bus is pretty simple. You have address lines, and card select
lines. Address lines are as usual.
Card select lines are like chip selects, or whatever you are used to in
terminology. It selects which card should respond when address and data
and other control signals are on the bus.
Usually only one card select line is active at a time.
So you have three things to deal with:
. Address lines
. Card select lines
. ECC
Address lines are pretty simple. You grab four card select lines, hook a
4-to-2 binary multiplexor in there, and you get A18,A19 from those. This
means that four adjacent cards will cause A18,A19 to be generated.
Card select lines are even simpler. You just OR the four card select
lines together, and output it on one of them. I seem to remember that
you don't need to cut anything on the backplane, but check that to be
sure. Also, you need a total of four of these special cards in order to
get 4 MB working in the MK11, but all four cards will be identical.
With that, the hardware side is done. Now, the one part left is a bit
more tricky, but it's a hardware problem with a software solution.
The MK11 (as well as the 11/750) have ECC memory. In order for the
memory to not scream bloody hell when you access it, the syndrome bits
must be set right. At power up, the MK11 initialize the syndrome bits
for all memory in the box, but it does this in a really clever way. It
runs though all addresses and do a write to them, forcing the ECC
syndrome bits to be updated.
*But*... It does this on all cards in the box in parallell. That is, all
card select lines are active at the same time, at this one instance.
The problem with that is that (obviously) not all the memory in the 1MB
memory board will be reset. By designing your small adapter card the
right way, you can get atleast the first 256KB ECC syndrome bits set
right. The rest you'll have to do by software instead, before the memory
can be used. Otherwise you'll just get parity errors if you try to
access that memory.
And, normal writes to memory won't work! The memory is 32 bits wide, and
a normal write from a PDP-11 will only write 16 bits, so it won't cause
the memory to do a blind write and just set the syndrome bits.
If you read the documentation for the MK11, you'll find that it actually
have a CSR as well, and in that, you can set bits to force writing the
syndrome bits and ignore errors. And for the initialization that's what
you need to do: set the right bits in the CSR, write to all memory
needed, and then reset the CSR again.
The last "funny" thing with this is that the CSR isn't easy to access.
All accesses to the I/O page in an 11/70 will cause the reference to run
out on the Unibus (not surprising). However, the MK11 isn't on the
Unibus. :-)
The trick is to realize that the Unibus map will always direct the
access to the memory bus, even if the final address is in the I/O page.
So, you need to setup the Unibus map to point to the I/O page, and then
access the MK11 CSR through the Unibus map.
After that, you're all done, and the MK11 with 1MB memory boards will be
happy. I've done it in the past, and it really not any more complicated
than that.
Johnny
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:52:14 +0100
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
Subject: PDP-11/70 cache memory
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4958B9EE.1050507 at softjar.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
And since some have mentioned it, there was a 3rd party upgrade to the
11/70 which replaced the whole memory system with a few cards in the CPU
box, which turned all memory into cache.
This was by a company called SETASI, and the product was the hypercache.
They actually had two products. HC-70 was the hypercache, and then you
had something called the PEP-70 as well. It appears they could be used
together, but I don't know if one was required for the other, or if they
were related in any way, and if so how.
(SETASI also did other stuff, such as a SCSI adapted for massbus, which
was pretty nice, and usable both on 16-bit and 36-bit machines.)
Johnny
End of cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 65
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