Relatively Early Computer Generated Art (1963)

Apergy at aol.com Apergy at aol.com
Thu Oct 23 12:19:52 CDT 2008


Hello,
 
This is my first post.
 
Several months ago, I purchased a limited edition (12/50) photographic  print 
of computer generated sine waves that was executed by Efriam Arazi in  1963. 
Arazi is considered to be a pioneer in leading edge computer  graphics.  I 
believe that the work was created by Arazi at MIT.   Might anyone within or 
without the CCTALK community shed further  light onto this work?
Thank you,
Randy   
 
 
In a message dated 10/23/2008 1:07:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
cctalk-request at classiccmp.org writes:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: CRT  displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s]
(Tony  Duell)
2. Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the  1950s]
(Tony Duell)
3. Re: PDP-1  Spacewar! program internals (Lee Courtney (ACM))
4. Re:  DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) (Johnny Billquist)
5. Re: CRT  displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] (der Mouse)
6.  FS: How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer
System (Steve Robertson)
7. Re: DECNET/8 (was  Re: RTS-8) (Ethan Dicks)
8. DDC BUS-65517 1553 card  (lanoe)
9. OT:Humor  What people think their stuff is  worth
(Christian Liendo)
10. OT: Atari 2600  w 10 games $400 (Christian Liendo)
11. OT: Here is another Mac IICi  $595 (Christian Liendo)
12. Re: OT:Humor  What people think  their stuff is worth
(Zane H. Healy)
13. RE:  DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) (Paul_Koning at Dell.com)
14. Re: OT:Humor  What people think their stuff is worth (John  Floren)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:43:34 +0100 (BST)
From:  ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: CRT displays [was:  computer graphics in the 1950s]
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <m1KsjcH-000J1gC at p850ug1>
Content-Type: text/plain

>  
> I give up.  I can't figure out how you define  "monitor".

Nor can I. 

It's clear (I hope) that the thing I use  on my workbench with a 
raster-scanned CRT and a composite video input is a  'monitor' by any 
normal defintiion. It's equally clear to me that the DEC  VT100 is not a 
monitor, it's a terminal (although it contains a  monitor).

But there are plenty of grey areas between them. 

>  
> Is it a raster-scan CRT?  If so, then yes, it doesn't directly  do 
characters.
> 
> Is it a vector-only CRT?  If so, then  again it doesn't directly do 
characters.

Try as I will, I can't think  of a _CRT_ that can only be raster scanned 
or vector scanned.

>  Is it a vacuum tube with a phosphor face intended as an output device 
viewed  by humans?  That would be the definition I would assume you're  using.  If 
so, then the SAGE displays fit: those are direct view tubes  that can display 
both vectors and characte
rs, and the character display is  a  Charactron.

Esactly.

-tony


------------------------------

Message:  2
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:38:39 +0100 (BST)
From:  ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: CRT displays [was:  computer graphics in the 1950s]
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <m1KsjXX-000J12C at p850ug1>
Content-Type: text/plain

> >  >vector representation and *that* is sent to the monitor.   Monitors
> > >don't eat characters as input.  
> >  
> > Not unless they are a Charactron [...]
> 
> ...which  is not a monitor, so no characters are not sent to monitors.

You can,  of course, use words to mean what you like, but it helps if we 
all know  that definition. So could you please tell us what you mean by 
(video)  monitor [1], what inputs it may have, and so on.

[1] I put the 'video'  in to avoid discussion of monitor programs, and the 
like.

And what  do you call the HP98780?  

-tony


------------------------------

Message:  3
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Lee Courtney  \(ACM\)" <lee_courtney at acm.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-1 Spacewar! program  internals
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org,    "General Discussion:  On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"  <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:  <100541.90698.qm at web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Al,

Very nice interview. Is  there an audio of the entire interview available on 
the Museum web site, or  Youtube?

Lee Courtney


--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Al Kossow  <aek at spies.com> wrote:

> From: Al Kossow  <aek at spies.com>
> Subject: PDP-1 Spacewar! program  internals
> To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
> Date: Tuesday, October  21, 2008, 11:00 AM
> Here is part of an oral history I recorded with  Steve Russel
> last
> August which discusses how the Spacewar!  program works
> internally.
> 
> 
> Exerpt of an oral  history of Steve Russell
> August 2008
> CHM Reference Number  X4970.2008
> (C) 2008 Computer History Museum
> 
> 
>  Russell:  Anyway, the PDP-1 arrived, and Marvin Minsky
> wrote the  tripos
>            demonstration,  generally called the Minskytron,
> and there was the famous  weekend
>            where the mob of  undergraduates transcribed the
> macro assembler from TX-0 to  the
>            PDP-1, because they  didn't like FRAP. And
> then fairly quickly thereafter,  they
>            wrote DDT and connected  up the macro symbols to
> DDT. So that was all sort of in
>   place by the middle of the fall of 1961.  And the
> combination of the Minskytron and
>       having DDT with interactive debugging with
>  symbols was very tempting. I don't
>           remember the exact order of things, but I'm
> pretty sure I  started talking up a better
>             demonstration program than the Minskytron, and
> eventually, Alan  Kotok  went up
>            to  Maynard and collected the sine and cosine
> routines from DECUS,  presented
>            them to me, and  said, "Okay, here are the
> sine and cosine routines; now what's  your
>            excuse?" And I  discovered I had run out of
> excuses; I had to actually think. And  so
>            I started work and figured  out the basic trick
> of Spacewar! display which is that  you
>            only need to calculate a  unit vector pointing in
> the direction of the spaceship.  And
>            you can express  everything else the spaceship
> does, and the outline of the  spaceship
>            in terms of that  unit vector, suitably scaled.
> So it's basically a lot of addition in  the
>            usual program  upkeep.
> 
> Kossow:  Do you want to just give an overview,  then, of how
> Spacewar! actually
>         works?
> 
> Russell:  It's one big loop, and  the loop is on the
> displayable objects. And I called
>   them displayable objects, although I  didn't
> know about object orientation or object-
>     oriented programming at the time.
> 
>  Kossow:  So you have the sun--
> 
> Russell:  Colliding  objects, not displayable objects. The
> colliding object is a  space
>            ship, there are two of  those. And that has a lot
> of extra data with it. It shares  the
>            position and velocity  tables with all of the
> torpedoes and explosions that are  running
>            around. So there's  just one big loop through
> the colliding objects, and it looks at  all
>            the higher-numbered  colliding objects to see if
> there's a collision, using an  octagon
>            because you don't  need to calculate the
> square root of anything, you can do that  by
>            work on X difference, Y  difference, and X+Y
> difference--
> 
> Kossow:  So the  bounding box for the collision detection is
> an octagon?
>  
> Russell: Yes. So it goes through, it sees if this object is
>  colliding with any higher-
>             numbered object. If it is, it replaces the
> calculation routines.  That's another thing
>            that  every colliding object has, is a
> calculation routine. It replaces the  calculation
>            routine with the  explosion calculation routine.
> And then things take care  of
>            themselves. Then, after  it's decided whether
> it's an explosion or not, it goes off  to
>            the calculation routine.  And the calculation
> routine updates the position, since  all
>            colliding objects have  velocity; and if it's
> a spaceship, it worries about reading  the
>            controls and updating the  other things about the
> spaceship in deciding whether to
>   launch a torpedo or not. And if a torpedo  needs
> to be launched, it searches up the
>       colliding object table for an empty slot,
>  indicated by having no calculation routine.
>         It searches up the table for an empty slot, puts
> a  torpedo calculation routine there,
>           and the spaceship position plus the suitable
> increments, so it  won't run into its
>            torpedo,  and of the velocity of the spaceship
> plus an increment for the  torpedo, and
>            it goes on. When  that the main loop gets done,
> you go off and do some star  display
>            and display the sun,  and calculate -- and part
> of the spaceship calculation is  to
>            calculate the effect of  gravity on the
> spaceship. Originally, there wasn't any  gravity,
>            and I had an  interpreter, which interpreted the
> outline description, and  Dan
>            Edwards, sometime in late  1961 or early 1962,
> looked at that code and decided if  he
>            could write a special  purpose compiler which
> would compile precisely the right
>   code, and proceeded to. And there's  one
> compiled outline for each spaceship; each
>     spaceship actually does half of the  spaceship
> outline and then you twiddle the
>       vectors and do the other half. That keeps the
>  display running just as fast as it can.
>         That gives time to calculate the effect of
> gravity on  the two spaceships, but not on
>           the torpedoes. So we decided that they were
> photon torpedoes  not affected by
>             gravity.
> 
> Kossow:  So when the explosion routine starts,  it continues
> calculating motion, so
>         the explosion moves?
> 
> Russell: Yes. If you see  two spaceships collide, if you
> watch closely, you will  see
>            that there are two  explosions that continue off
> in the direction that the  two
>            spaceships were going.  There is another number
> in the table for all colliding
>   objects, which is the size. And this is,  roughly
> speaking, proportional to the amount
>     of computing it takes to compute that  object.
> And at the end of the loop, as you go
>     through the main loop, you accumulate the  sizes
> also; and so at the end of the loop,
>       there's fritter away time loop that attempts
> to  keep the frame rate approximately
>           constant. It doesn't do a wonderful job;
> it's visually  adequate, but God help you
>             when you try to take a movie of it.
> 
> Kossow:  One of the  complaints with all modern kids trying
> to play it now is
>   that it's TOO SLOW.
> 
>  Russell: Kids who are used to something like Asteroids seem
> to think  that. But
>            when we do the  demos, we get a number of people
> who seem to be still  quite
>            addicted to it with the  old, slow version. Now,
> that was always a complaint; the
>   reason that all the parameters got  accumulated
> in the first page of the listing, which
>   says you can put that first page of the  listing
> of the console, and anyone who wanted
>     to try a different set of parameters could.  But
> the ones that were compiled in or
>       assembled in were the ones that I thought were
>  good. Now it turns out I'm not a
>           representative arcade game player, and so my
> version of the  parameters is slower
>            and  gives more opportunity for marksmanship than
> the arcade  version.
> 
> Kossow:  Right, that's the whole thing with  gravity and
> doing the, what's that called,
>       where you whip around the sun? Does it have a
>  name, where you whip around the
>           sun and you shoot?
> 
> Russell:  The closest name is  the "CBS maneuver"
> is what happens when two lazy
>     experts fight each other, which is they  both
> turn at right angles to the sun, and fire
>     for 3.5 or 4 seconds, so they're now in
>  stable orbits, and they know it. And then they
>       turn at each other and start trying to place
>  torpedoes where they think the other one
>         is going to be. And so the trails turn into an
> eye  around the sun, and CBS used that
>           as a logo, so it got called the "CBS
> maneuver". You can--   one of the spaceships can
>            go  the other way around the sun, so that both
> ships meet on the same side  of the
>            sun. But that seems  usually to have less chance
> of winning. Not much less,  but
>            somewhat less.
>  
> Kossow:  It's better that you stay on opposite sides,
>  then?
> 
> Russell:  Yes.
> 
> Kossow:  And  then at some point, you added hyperspace?
> 
> Russell:  Yes,  and we realized that that was going-- I
> don't remember whether  we
>            actually had it. I may  have had it for a little
> while with no limit, but it became  very
>            clear that someone who  didn't understand
> could use hyperspace to escape their
>   proper justice forever, and so we added  the
> unreliability of hyperfield generators
>       very quickly. One thing that Asteroids and the
>  arcade versions, the later arcade
>           versions of Spacewar! added, which actually was
> a big help,  especially with their
>            high  acceleration rates, was "training
> mode" where space was actually  viscous. So
>            if you got your  ship accelerated so that it was
> going across the screen so fast  you
>            couldn't understand what  was going on, if
> you took your hands off, the situation
>   would gradually become understandable.  I
> don't think I would have been persuaded
>       to do that in the original Spacewar! because it
>  was unrealistic. But it definitely
>           made it easier to learn.
> 
> Kossow:  So are there  any other favorite anecdotes about
> Spacewar!, or just  the
>            spread of  Spacewar!?
> 
> Russell:  Well, the "imitation is the  sincerest form
> of flattery"-- many people saw
>     Spacewar! as, some people ask for copies of  the
> source, and of course we gave them
>       out because we very briefly considered trying to
>  sell Spacewar!. We realized the
>           only possible customer was Digital Equipment,
> and we also, on a  little reflection,
>            that they  were too cheap to do it. So we gave it
> out to anyone who wanted it,  and
>            some people got the  listing and thought about
> it, and by reading it-- a lot of  people
>            simply saw the game  and had a computer that
> wasn't the PDP-1 but did have a
>   display, and implemented Spacewar! their  own
> way. I suspect most of them figured
>       out the "basic trick", but I'm not
> sure.
>  
> Kossow: What "basic trick" were you thinking of?
> 
>  Russell: That you could do everything based on the
> spaceship unit  vector. How are
>            you fixed for  the source code for different
> implementations of Spacewar!?
>  
> Kossow:  We have a few. I don't know if we have the
>  PDP-10 version. We have the
>             12 version, and I think we have a PDP-7 version.
> 
> Russell: I  think Bob Saunders wrote the PDP-7 version. I
> think one 6  version
>            simply ran on the  PDP-1 simulator. I think there
> must have been others, but I  don't
>            know. Something for  some history grad student to
> pursue. When we were running  a
>            demo for the Yelp event,  there was one woman who
> had done Spacewar! in turtle
>   graphics as a high school programming  project,
> which she wasn't too happy with.
>       She seemed to like the demo of the original
>  Spacewar!.
> 
> Kossow:  So turtle graphics running on a  micro or something
> like that?
> 
> Russell:  I didn't  quiz her. I didn't have the
> opportunity to quiz her further.
>  
> Kossow:  So she thought this version was better?
>  
> Russell:  No, she just thought it was nice to see the
>  original.
> 
> Kossow:  So she was in her mid-20s?
>  
> Russell:  20s or early 30s; probably 20s. The DEC field
>  service story where the
>            DEC  production people got into the practice of
> loading Spacewar! the last  thing
>            before PDP-1 shipped,  and field service would
> then unpack it, make sure that
>   nothing horrible had happened, tryed  turning on
> power, and starting Spacewar!.
>       And if it worked, they would call the customer
>  over and say, "See, it works." If it
>           didn't work, then they'd worry about it.
> In the restoration  project, we had a little
>             reflection and we decided that probably if
> Spacewar! works, just about  everything
>            works, as far as  machine instructions go. It
> doesn't guarantee all the I/O gear  works,
>            but it does multiply  and divides, and just about
> every instruction. So a lot of  people
>            implemented Spacewar!  just from knowing that it
> existed and having seen it  maybe
>             once.


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date:  Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:35:21 +0200
From: Johnny Billquist  <bqt at softjar.se>
Subject: Re: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8)
To:  cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <48FF6459.90408 at softjar.se>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ethan Dicks  <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at  07:54:04AM -0400, djg at pdp8.net wrote:
>>> Does anyone actually  have a copy of the DECnet-8 software
>>>
>> I have disk  images which seem to be it.
>>  http://www.pdp8online.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=decnet
> 
> I  will poke around in that tomorrow when our sat rises.

That definitely  looks like DECNET/8. Fun!

>> The first two are from disks which  were labeled decnet 1 and decnet 2
> 
> Sounds  promising.
>  
>> All the RTS docs I have seen are from  dbit.
>>  http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=rts
>>  ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/
> 
> After looking all day, I  finally found the doc file I recently
> discovered (most likely from  dbit).  It's an ASCII file named
> 'decnet8.doc', internally  designated "AA-5184A-TA", and happens
> to briefly reference a couple of  other DEC docs, "DEC-08-ORTMA",
> and "DEC-8E-HMM3A".
> 
>  The primary doc file describes programs like TLK and LSN and NIP.
> TLK  and LSN are a line-at-a-time messaging pair.  NIP (Network
>  Information Program) prints network status and diagnostic information.
>  
> At first pass, DECNET/8 appears to support local traffic  (process-to-
> process or terminal-to-terminal) as well as a variety of  interfaces
> for node-to-node traffic.  One list includes the KL8E,  KL8J-A, KL8A,
> KL8M, DP8E (interprocessor buffer), and DKC8-A  (parallel).
> 
> So to amend my previous speculations, DECNET/8  appears to provide a
> basic messaging utility and user-written  applications, but does not
> come with any bundled file transfer  capabilities.

That matches my impression as well.
There is a DDCMP  implementation in there as well.

I wonder if the TLK and LSN programs  are compatible with the ones on RSX.

Someone asked about compatibility  between phase III and phase IV, which 
Paul Koenig answered.
I have  another question, though.

As I've read it, phase III nodes can talk  with phase II nodes, just as 
phase IV can talk with phase III. But can  phase IV talk with phase II?
Since DECNET/8 is phase II, this is somewhat  interesting...

I doubt I'll have time to look more into this any time  soon, but unless 
someone else manage to get this working I definitely will  try it sooner 
or later.

Could anyone put up the files for  convenient access with ftp?

Johnny



------------------------------

Message:  5
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:00:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: der Mouse  <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
Subject: Re: CRT displays [was: computer  graphics in the 1950s]
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic  Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:  <200810222130.RAA03919 at Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>> Is it a raster-scan  CRT?  If [...]
>> Is it a vector-only CRT?  If  [...]
> Try as I will, I can't think of a _CRT_ that can only be  raster
> scanned or vector scanned.

Well...one without deflection  plates is rather difficult to use as a
vector display, but that's a matter  of complicated and unconventional
driving electronics more than a matter of  possibility proper.  (Or, I
suppose, one could use electrostatic  deflection with the deflection
plates outside the vacuum envelope, but that  gets interesting in other
ways.)

But, that aside, if you want to use  that narrow a definition of CRT,
then no, characters are never sent to any  CRT, Charactron or not; it's
all voltage levels.  I suppose you could  view the voltage levels sent
to a Charactron's pre-mask deflection  electrodes as an encoding of a
character; this point of view has some  justice to it, since you could
equally well say that a serial line doesn't  carry characters, just
voltage waveforms - but in that case you can view  the relevant inputs
to any CRT that's displaying a character as an encoding  of that
character, so it's really a question of which point of view is  most
useful.

But I think we already got an explanation upthread that  basically said
it depended on software's view of it, making it more a  question of
design intent than anything else, since either "graphics"  or
"character" can be pressed into service as the other....

/~\ The  ASCII                  Mouse
\  / Ribbon Campaign
X  Against HTML         mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!         7D  C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27  4B


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed,  22 Oct 2008 20:25:45 -0400
From: Steve Robertson  <steerex at ccvn.com>
Subject: FS: How To Design Build & Program  Your Own Working Computer
System
To:  cctech at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <1224721545.17212.5.camel at bart>
Content-Type:  text/plain

Thinning my collection of collectible books.

If  anyone is interested, make an offer for Tab Books: "How To Design
Build  & Program Your Own Working Computer System" by Robert P. Haviland
Pub.  1979 . 308 ppg. This is a complete how-to for the  SC/MP
microprocessor.

Reply to me directly. Postage will be from  Western North Carolina.

-- 
Steve Robertson
steerex [at] ccvn  [dot] com



------------------------------

Message:  7
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:40:59 +0000
From: Ethan Dicks  <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>
Subject: Re: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8)
To:  "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:  <20081023074059.GA7597 at usap.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=us-ascii

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 07:35:21PM +0200, Johnny  Billquist wrote:
> Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>  wrote:
>  >>http://www.pdp8online.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=decnet
>  >
> >I will poke around in that tomorrow when our sat  rises.
> 
> That definitely looks like DECNET/8.  Fun!

Yep... I dug around today and it looks good.

> I wonder  if the TLK and LSN programs are compatible with the ones on  RSX.

There's a comment in TLK.PA about a change made in 1976 to add  "PDP11
COMPATIBILITY", so I think it's possible.

-ethan

--  
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S     Current South Pole Weather at  23-Oct-2008 at 07:30 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400     Temp  -53.5 F (-47.5 C)   Windchill    -86.9 F (-66.0 C)
APO AP 96598           Wind   12.1 kts Grid 21   Barometer 676.2 mb (10772  
ft)

Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov             http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html


------------------------------

Message:  8
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:51:11 +0200
From: "lanoe"  <lanoevr41 at aol.com>
Subject: DDC BUS-65517 1553 card
To:  <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:  <KCEOKINBOMNOIPEFMILBAEGACGAA.lanoevr41 at aol.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi  Wouter,

I have seen on an internet site  that a few  yeras ago you were
discussing about BUS-65517 1553 card. I'm currently  looking fo one o this PC
board, do you have any information about the  procurement of this PCB please,
DDC is no longer proposing this  reference.

Thanks by advance

Best  ragrds

P.  LANOE


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date:  Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Liendo  <christian_liendo at yahoo.com>
Subject: OT:Humor  What people  think their stuff is worth
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <190818.54386.qm at web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I find stuff like this  funny

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html

Video  Game Collectors Sale - $1 (New York, NY)

Reply to:  sale-889529620 at craigslist.org [?]

Date: 2008-10-22,  5:29PM  EDT






$200 Atari 2600 Video Computer System with  varies games(Pac-Man, Missle 
Command, etc.)


$150 Nintendo  Entertainment System with varies games(Top Gun, Bases Loaded,  
etc.)


$100 Commodore VIC-20  Computer





Collectors wanting to own a piece of video  game history. All original 
packaging and box. Systems still  works.





Local delivery available


Ethan,  917-334-8123
















Location: New York, NY
it's NOT ok to contact this  poster with services or other commercial  
interests







------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 23 Oct  2008 06:10:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Liendo  <christian_liendo at yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: Atari 2600 w 10 games  $400
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <605098.29305.qm at web110514.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Some of this stuff is  crazy

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/clt/881172465.html

Original  Atari 2600 with games - $400 (Bronx)

Reply to:  sale-881172465 at craigslist.org [?]

Date: 2008-10-16,  3:09AM  EDT






Selling an original ATARI 2600 I got in 1982  Atari 2600 with games
about 10-=15 games Including defender, yars revenge,  combat,
misslecommand ,break out , asteroids, Frogger, Raidersof the lost  ark ,
ET, River Raid, Space Caverns, night driver , original pac man ,  bezerk
, championsip soccer among some, Have the original Joysticks and  paddle
controls. I have had them since 1982 since I was a little boy and  now I
am 36 . Serious inquiries only for you old timers who know what I  am
talking about. console works perfect and so do the cartirdges. will  not
negotiate on this one guys so dont even ask . $400 even no less if  not
then I hold on to it a few more Yrs and Get much more $$$$$ i am  a
maticulous man keeping my things in perfect conditions. Also  have
Nintendo , Super NES and Sega Genesis , Commodore 64 , And many  other
items in my day which are mint and flawless. Once again  serious
inquieries only NO LESS THAN 400 and you old timers now that is  a
bargin !!! Eddie (347) 702-3918 


















Location: Bronx
it's NOT ok to contact this poster  with services or other commercial 
interests


PostingID:  881172465





------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 23 Oct  2008 06:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Liendo  <christian_liendo at yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: Here is another Mac IICi  $595
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:  <983369.60357.qm at web110511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I like where he talks about "Advanced  Hardware"


http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/sys/886217650.html
Apple  Macintosh II ci Computer - $595 (East Hills, Long Island)

Reply to:  sale-886217650 at craigslist.org [?]

Date: 2008-10-20, 11:38AM  EDT






A “Like New” Apple Macintosh II ci Graphics  Computer with Color
Monitor, loaded with Hardware and Software. This can be  a great
Workstation for development or graphics. This computer has  advanced
hardware and software as follows:

Hardware: 330 MB Hard  Drive; Network Card; SCSI Card; PLI Infinity
40 Turbo SCSI Drive; three 44  MB SyQuest Cartridges and much more.
Software: System 7.0.1 Operating  System; QuarkXpress; Unitron; Norton
Utilities; Alliance Power Tools and  much much more.





This is a GREAT  BUY!





Please call David or Ehud at:  (516)625-3476


















Location: East Hills, Long Island
it's NOT ok to  contact this poster with services or other commercial  
interests


PostingID: 886217650





------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 23 Oct  2008 07:17:57 -0700
From: "Zane H. Healy"  <healyzh at aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: OT:Humor  What people think  their stuff is worth
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic  Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:  <p0624081cc52634c644d4@[192.168.1.199]>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 6:08 AM -0700 10/23/08,  Christian Liendo wrote:
>I find stuff like this  funny
>
>http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html

I've  been watching Craigslist the past few months looking for some 
camera  equipment I'm after.  I can typically buy used stuff from a 
dealer  with some sort of warranty for about the same price people 
want, or  less.  What really gets me is the stuff people are trying to 
sell for  more than it costs new.  The strange thing is, it's 
typically on the  very high-end expensive stuff you can get a good 
deal.

So far I've  not purchased anything off Craigslist, as what I'm 
looking for hasn't  turned up at a price that makes it worth messing  
with.

Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy       | UNIX Systems Administrator  |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast   |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)       | Classic Computer Collector  |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|   Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,   |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's  Computer Museum.         |
|       http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/    |


------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu,  23 Oct 2008 09:52:05 -0500
From: <Paul_Koning at Dell.com>
Subject:  RE: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8)
To:  <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<B135486A342E6244AEE1EB13118903BA019CA7F9 at ausx3mpc106.aus.amer.dell.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="UTF-8"

>I  wonder if the TLK and LSN programs are compatible with the ones on  RSX.

FWIW, TLK/LSN exists in RSTS also.

>Someone asked about  compatibility between phase III and phase IV, which 
>Paul Koenig  answered.
>I have another question, though.
>
>As I've read  it, phase III nodes can talk with phase II nodes, just as 
>phase IV can  talk with phase III. But can phase IV talk with phase II?
>Since  DECNET/8 is phase II, this is somewhat interesting...

I thought the  comment was that DECnet/8 is Phase III?

In any case, the question is  no.  Compatibility is one phase up, so Phase 
III understands II, and IV  understands III, but IV->II isn't supported.  It's 
possible that  someone did implement that; it wouldn't be all that difficult.  
But for  example DECnet/E does not.  I just checked... the message code for 
the  Phase II init message is in the definitions file, but it isn't mentioned in 
 the routing layer code so the state machine for handling that message is  
absent.

paul

PS. I noticed that the pdf/dec/DECnet  directory on bitsavers.org has some 
Phase II and some Phase III docs (not  clearly differentiated -- the 1978 docs 
are Phase II, the 1980 ones are Phase  III).  But there are no Phase IV docs 
there.  I know they exist  elsewhere; having those copied to bitsavers would be 
a good  thing.



------------------------------

Message:  14
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:26:51 -0400
From: "John Floren"  <slawmaster at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT:Humor What people think their  stuff is worth
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic  Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<7d3530220810230826s6935423eh419d888dfaa10f65 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Zane H.  Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
> At 6:08 AM -0700 10/23/08,  Christian Liendo wrote:
>>
>> I find stuff like this  funny
>>
>>  http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html
>
> I've been  watching Craigslist the past few months looking for some camera
>  equipment I'm after.  I can typically buy used stuff from a dealer with  
some
> sort of warranty for about the same price people want, or  less.  What 
really
> gets me is the stuff people are trying to sell  for more than it costs new.
>  The strange thing is, it's typically  on the very high-end expensive stuff
> you can get a good  deal.
>
> So far I've not purchased anything off Craigslist, as  what I'm looking for
> hasn't turned up at a price that makes it worth  messing with.
>
> Zane
>
>

Step on any college  campus and see all the flyers for used laptops
selling for more than they  cost new...


John
-- 
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh  wgah'nagl fhtagn


End of cctalk Digest, Vol 62, Issue  49
**************************************

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