Non-fake Apple 1 on ebay

geoffrey oltmans oltmansg at
Thu Nov 19 17:07:23 CST 2009

I suppose that would be true if such books/documentaries were covering the history of computing. At some point you have to define the scope of your history though. For the case of the history of the personal computer however, it is probably sufficient to have a limited overview of computing prior to the emergence of the PC, and cover the reasons for such emergence and/or contrast with prior computers.

If I were writing a book on the personal computer, I would probably start with the kit computers (S100 machines, KIM1, Apple I, etc.) of the 70's, with a cursory look at the minis/mainframe/timesharing era.

From: Fred Cisin <cisin at>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at>
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 4:51:31 PM
Subject: Re: Non-fake Apple 1 on ebay

> > Way too many people think that computing history consists in its entirety
> > of:
> > Apple 1
> > Apple ][
> > IBM PC
> > Macintosh
> > along with Wordstar, WordPervert, Word
> > (which of course was Cringely's personal history of computing experience)
> > How many "documentaries" never even mention S100, TRS80, Atari, Commodore,
> > Northstar, Proctology, KIM-1, Electric Pencil, Easy Writer, etc.
> > and mention CP/M only as an introduction to Bill Gates?

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
> Isn't that a very biased list too? What about all the larger machines?
> What about Xerox/3 Rivers? What about DEC and HP (I still think the 9830
> doesn't get the attention it deserves). What about larger IBM machines?
> What about non-US micros (Acorn, for example). And so on (No, I know I am
> missing stuff out too).

I was specifically listing machines that were VERY similar to the ones
that get covered, but never get mentioned by the "historians" of mass
media, rather than supplying a corrected list.

To be an APPROPRIATE sampling of computing history, DEC minis, IBM
mainframes, need to be included, as well as acknowledging the machines
from all of the seven dwarves, the era of EAM (my first computing work was
alphabetizing using an 084 counting sorter), the fundamental relationships
between personal computers, timesharing, "client/server", etc.

I am NOT going to attempt to create an exhaustive, nor thorough, list so
assume that lack of inclusion of your favorites is not intended to
diminish their importance.  Each of us KNOWS what the most important and
significant machine was.

Grumpy Ol' Fred             cisin at

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