To Al Kossow at bitsavers

Kevin Parker trash80 at
Sat Nov 14 22:59:37 CST 2015

I tend to agree - the use of the word "theft" is an emotional response and
doesn't help the debate. Without getting too legal you can only steal
something if you intend to permanently deprive the owner if it and that's
not happening here - the owner still has it. It's an issue with the use of
it that we grapple with. I'd like to think that common sense will prevail in
this space one day and if you're legitimately preserving something then
no-one will have an issue.

Kevin Parker


-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at] On Behalf Of Ian Finder
Sent: Sunday, 15 November 2015 3:25 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at>
Subject: Re: To Al Kossow at bitsavers

It seems to me that Paul Koning's attitude will lead  retrocomputing to die.
We can't all own computers that can do interesting things with front-panel
programming alone.

By his definition, I have committed a lot of "theft" in my days to restore
systems I had no other options left to deal with, due to restrictive
licensing, incommunicado business entities, or IP situations with no well
understood outcomes.

I am always happy to pay, but that's not always an option.

I agree the proper routes should always be pursued when possible, but bits
are fading fast and without dark archives that may run afoul of present day
copyright laws and original EULAs, many things will be lost permanently.

I find the mindset of considering all abandonware scenarios "theft" to be
pedantic, toxic, shortsighted, and counterproductive- as well as logically
and legally baseless.

- I

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2015, at 20:11, geneb <geneb at> wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Nov 2015, Paul Koning wrote:
>> "Abandonware" is a term invented as an excuse to steal other people's
property.  Let's not try to apply it here.
> Copyright infringement is not theft... at least according to the Supreme
Court, but then again, what do they know?
> g.
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> - The only one of its kind.
> - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value 
> database for the masses, not the classes.
> - Get it _today_!

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