ajp166 at bellatlantic.net
Fri Dec 16 07:54:09 CST 2005
>Subject: RE: Archiving Software
> From: "Cini, Richard" <Richard.Cini at wachovia.com>
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:34:02 -0500
> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>The method (using PIP and a COM port) works well for physical machines. We
>wrote these utilities for the Altair32 to talk directly to the host
>Point being that someone could write a generic CP/M utility which can dump a
>disk image over a COM port instead of only a file. I like ADT because it has
>the nifty ability to download the transfer program to the Apple using
>console redirection...ADT basically stuffs a monitor script into the Apple
>over the serial connection. CP/M probably has the same ability...I don't
How about MDM7? I've used that inside Dave's Horizon Sim with good success.
The MDM7 I used was allready setup for a NS* IO and the Sim maps NS* IO
to COM ports.
There are two different issues here:
* Transfering CP/M files and MDM7 (XMDM, Kermit ...) do that well.
The Sim side issues vary depening on how IO is simulated.
For example MyZ80 transfering CP/M files is trivial as there
is a utility inside the emulated CPM for reading and writing
outside to DOS filesystem. Others are not as flexible.
* booting a system that has a unique NON-PC compatable format.
This varies all over the map depending on target system.
>From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
>On Behalf Of Allison
>Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:25 AM
>To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>Subject: RE: Archiving Software
>>Subject: RE: Archiving Software
>> From: "Cini, Richard" <Richard.Cini at wachovia.com>
>> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:16:24 -0500
>> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
><cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>>For archiving MSDOS disks I use ZIP files unless the disk is bootable, in
>>which case I use readimg/writimg (Microsoft utilities).
>>For cross-platform archiving, the only thing I've done so far is on the
>>Apple, using ADT.
>>However, ADT brings-up an idea. In my Altair emulator, we have a CP/M
>>utility on one of the disk images which allows you to transfer files from
>>the host to the emulator space and back (read.com and write.com I think).
>>The program uses an invalid opcode trap to communicate with the host file
>>system. You would use a program to convert a CP/M COM program on the host
>>an Intel HEX file which is then read into the CP/M environment through the
>>trap mechanism. The reverse would happen except that the "write" does not
>>convert it to Intel HEX -- it deposits it as a CP/M COM file.
>There are programs for CP/M to handel hexfiles:
>LOAD creates a com file from hex (CP/M standard tool)
>DDT/SID/ZSID can do the same.
>Unload is a PD program (small) that can create an intel hexfile from
>a .com file (the reverse of load).
>Those two with PIP file.foo=CON: [or rdr:] can move files in or out
>on a serial port.
>There are many ways of doing this.
>>The source is on one of the disk images. There's no reason why it couldn't
>>be enhanced to move entire disk images instead of just files, and since
>>a CP/M utility it should work on any CP/M system. Unfortunately I don't
>>enough experience in programming for CP/M, nor the time right now, to do
>>From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
>>On Behalf Of Jules Richardson
>>Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:02 AM
>>To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>>Subject: Re: Archiving Software
>>M H Stein wrote:
>>> Aside from bootable system disks, for which Dave Dunfield's imaging
>>> seems to be a much better solution than Teledisk, what's the best way to
>>> archive software in a way that makes it as universally useable as
>>ImageDisk seems like a definite step in the right direction - it's
>>done a brilliant job when I've tried it.
>>What it now needs IMHO is multi-platform support so that you don't *have*
>>use DOS and so that it can be used by more people. (Whether a Windows
>>is viable I don't know; certainly Linux seems to give you all sorts of ways
>>reach the bare hardware though - presumably *BSD would be the same)
>>Other than that it seems a viable tool to use - the file format has a
>>field of unlimited length for any useful metadata, and is able to record
>>bad spots were on the original disk.
>>> For example, I have original distribution diskettes for CP/M Wordstar,
>>> Supercalc, etc. on 8" disks. Obviously images wouldn't be very useful for
>>> someone with only 5" drives or no 8" drive on the PC; on the other hand,
>>> a DOS ZIP file of the files on that disk would have to be
>>> back to a CP/M format disk somehow.
>>Well the ImageDisk file format's public - I suppose there's nothing to stop
>>someone writing utilities to pull data out of an image at the file level,
>>spitting them across a serial link with a terminal app to the original
>>hardware. Or converting them back into a 5.25" image file, say.
>>Getting the data off (and knowing you've captured it all) and onto modern
>>media is probably more important than what tools someone may use in the
>>to interpret the data. Providing it's all captured of course!
>>> So, how are the rest of you dealing with this?
>>Burying heads in sand I suspect :) I've finally got a PC that'll handle FM
>>data (I think it was the 7th one I tried!), so I can start imaging my own
>>collection. Luckily I just have soft-sectored MFM/FM disks here; no
>>hard-sectored stuff, GCR encoded media etc.
>>I need to make the host machine dual-boot DOS/Linux so I can just use DOS
>>the actual reading/writing, then Linux for everything else (archival, any
>>processing of the files, taking advantage of being able to use longer
>>I'll give DOSEMU a try under Linux to see if it'll run ImageDisk, but I
>>suspect it won't allow the necessary direct access to the hardware... but
>>happy to dedicate a box to disk imaging, so it doesn't really matter if the
>>Linux floppy subsystem gets clobbered in the process. I suspect that
>>won't even run under DOSEMU though.
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