who built the first 8086/88 based puter?
tpeters at mixcom.com
Thu Mar 23 18:09:58 CST 2006
At 06:50 PM 3/23/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>At 03:27 PM 3/23/06 -0800, you wrote:
> >On 3/23/2006 at 4:31 PM Joe R. wrote:
> >> Why do you say that??? Intel developed the 8088 and 8086 so I'd find
> >>surprising if anyone else beat them to the market with a computer based on
> >>those CPUs.
> >Yes, the MDS with the 8086 board in it was very early, no doubt about
> >it--and I said so (having used one when it came out).
> >But here starts the hair-splitting. Does a development system targeted for
> >developers count?
> Since he asked what was the first 8086/8088 computer I'd say that it does
>count. However I noticed that the discussion quickly shifted to HOME
>computers and ignored development systems and other COMMERCAIL systems.
> I don't know--I didn't invent this game. Who came out
> >with the first Z80 computer?
> Probably the Zilog ZDS IMO. But most people have never heard of them so
>they'll vote for the IMSAI, Compupro or whatever they happened to have had.
> Speaking of Z-80s, I have a COOL Z-80 system. It's a Dolch something. It
>has plugins for burning EPROMs, Logic Analyzer, pattern generator and other
>functions. It runs MPM and has SEVEN Z-80s! It can run up to 16 processes
>simulatanously and pass data from one process to another. In one example
>that they give, you can have one operating the LA and another disassembling
>the data from it and another outputing the data to a printer and another
>operting the disk drives. It's a COOL system. I've figured out a lot of it
>but I'd love to find a manual for it.
Dolch musta been big on special-purpose machines. For years, a Dolch
"portable" in a darth-vader's-lunchbox style was The Standard for the
Network General Sniffer. Ran Win NT 4 on it, usually. Had a special NIC in
it that could be put into promiscuous mode by the software, so you could
sniff everything on the wire. We had one with about 3 usable PCI slots,
filled with an interface for T1 work, a 10BaseT card, and a Madge
Token-Ring card. I think it was about US$10k.
> IIRC, there were isolated S-100 cards before
> >there were complete systems--do they count as computers?
> >Or, to put an even finer edge on it, was the first V20 computer created by
> >the first guy to replace the 8088 in his PC with one?
> >In retrospect, things happened pretty quickly back then. We'd like to
> >think that the IBM PC with 64K and one floppy was supplanted by the XT with
> >its hard disk, but in fact, for a time, both were being advertised and sold
> >by IBM (along with the PC Jr.).
> >Contrary to popular opinion, Intel build complete Single Board
> >>computers and even COMPLETE computers* and not just ICs and experimenter
> >>boards. The Series III MDS from Intel was a Series II MDS model 2xx with
> >>the addition of a 8086 or 8088 processor card. I STRONGLY suspect that
> >>these were THE first 8086/8088 based computers. Not only because Intel had
> >>a head start on everyone else but also because these WERE Development
> >>systems and they were intended for use in designing/building/testing other
> >>computer designs. Somewhere in my literature I amy have a date for the
> >>8088/8088 cards for the MDS systems but I know the MDS 2xx itself
> >>definitely predates the 8088/8086 and all it would have taken Intel to do
> >>to be the first on the market would be to design one additional card.
> >> FWIW I also have another computer that probably comes CLOSE to being
> >>first 8086 computer on the market. It's Rubicon computer and it uses an
> >>8086 CPU with an 8089 IO Processor, a (mumble-mumble) ECC memory
> >>from Intel and 256k of bank-switched memory. It runs CPM-86 amd it's
> >>appears to come straight out of the Intel data books. It's the only
> >>computer other than an Intel that I've ever seen that uses the 8089 IO
> >>processor and that ECC memory controller.
> >> *I personally have three Series III MDS machines and at least a dozen
> >>Intel 86/330 computers. the 86/330 is a complete computer and uses a 8086
> >> Joe
> >>(although I do recall seeing pictures of
> >>>>multibus type boxes with an Intel monniker, so things
> >>>>like that could possibly qualify). I suppose even a
> >>>>sbc could qualify, or even some sort of add-on for an
> >>>>established system. But sdks from Intel (or others)
> >>>>dont. Seattle Gazelle? What about 80186 firsts? 80286?
> >>>>I know the popular conception is that Compaq built the
> >>>>first 386 desktop, but I seem to recall ALR being
> >>>>numero uno (pretty sure it was ALR).
> >>>I think the distinction for 8086 may be Altos or one of the other S-100
> >>>makers, although Intel may have had a card for the MDS even before that.
> >>>Bill Godbout had his 85-88 card considerably before the PC.
> >>>As for the 80186/80286, we were debugging pre-release engineering samples
> >>>of both chips at Durango (I still remember the bug where DMA activity
> >>>would clobber the DI register). For sure, the 80186 Poppy rolled out
> >>>early. I don't think any 80286 versions were delivered until the Xenix
> >>>port got finished. But there was a socket on the board for one before
> >>>that--just nothing to run on it.
> >>>By the time of the 386, Mobo profiles had pretty much standardized for
> >>>so I suspect someone like Mylex may have had the first motherboard, but I
> >>>don't know if that counts as a "computer". The PS/2 386 boxes were also
> >>>out fairly early--didn't the Model 50 have a bug that required
> >>>of the mobo?
[Science] This book fills a much-needed gap. --Moses Hadas when he
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