From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com  Wed Dec  1 03:42:50 2021
From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (dave.g4ugm at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 09:42:50 -0000
Subject: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
In-Reply-To: <3fdf0a8f-4e8f-4987-a64f-a3f00677f2d9@sydex.com>
References: <3fdf0a8f-4e8f-4987-a64f-a3f00677f2d9@sydex.com>
Message-ID: <0a1901d7e697$ce698130$6b3c8390$@gmail.com>

Chuck,
I think TNMOC can read these tapes.

https://www.tnmoc.org/


Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via
> cctalk
> Sent: 30 November 2021 23:57
> To: CCtalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
> 
> Hey list,
> 
> I received a note today from a fellow in London who has 2 9-track tapes that
> he'd like read.  Brands are CDC and BASF, so media shedding should
> not be a problem.   Dates are '92 and '93, so likely 1600 or 6259.  The
> tape seal on one (the other has no seal) is IBM-style, which may be the
> system that produced the tapes.
> 
> Any takers?  Let me know if so, I'll put you in contact and you can take things
> from there.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> --Chuck
> 



From rice43 at btinternet.com  Wed Dec  1 04:22:58 2021
From: rice43 at btinternet.com (Joshua Rice)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 10:22:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
In-Reply-To: <0a1901d7e697$ce698130$6b3c8390$@gmail.com>
References: <3fdf0a8f-4e8f-4987-a64f-a3f00677f2d9@sydex.com>
 <0a1901d7e697$ce698130$6b3c8390$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5335ba77.3d6a5.17d7584d054.Webtop.118@btinternet.com>


The Centre for Computing History in Cambridge might be able to help too.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "'Chuck Guzis'" <cclist at sydex.com>; "'General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 Dec, 2021 At 09:42
Subject: RE: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
Chuck,
I think TNMOC can read these tapes.
https://www.tnmoc.org/ <https://www.tnmoc.org/>

Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis 
via
cctalk
Sent: 30 November 2021 23:57
To: CCtalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
Hey list,
I received a note today from a fellow in London who has 2 9-track tapes 
that
he'd like read.  Brands are CDC and BASF, so media shedding should
not be a problem.   Dates are '92 and '93, so likely 1600 or 6259.  The
tape seal on one (the other has no seal) is IBM-style, which may be the
system that produced the tapes.
Any takers?  Let me know if so, I'll put you in contact and you can take 
things
from there.
All the best,
--Chuck



From tsg at bonedaddy.net  Wed Dec  1 06:12:20 2021
From: tsg at bonedaddy.net (Todd Goodman)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 07:12:20 -0500
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <30DFD5AC-D8C5-4E00-AE04-9F689EBFD8FB@fritzm.org>
References: <20211130180616.BF7C818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <62223222-f1e7-5486-d990-77752395df8d@shiresoft.com>
 <125F84E1-D57E-4D15-8DD3-CA8C97F1B41D@fritzm.org>
 <c6671755-19c2-4838-b83f-e738acbacfd4@charter.net>
 <30DFD5AC-D8C5-4E00-AE04-9F689EBFD8FB@fritzm.org>
Message-ID: <e877615b-a81e-71e7-3004-22f33df8a8f6@bonedaddy.net>

On 11/30/2021 4:42 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:
>> I built mine from a layout on Tom Uban?s site: http://www.ubanproductions.com/museum.html
>> Did you use that directly with ExpressPCB and order from ExpressPCB or did you convert to more standard gerbers?
> I just went with ExpressPCB for minimal hassle, but you could probably get it cheaper from other board houses these days.  For my KB11-A + FP11-B, which run asynchronously, it was handy to build up two of these.  Also useful for the RK11-C.
>
>    ?FritzM.

I have Joerg Hoppe's KM11 bare boards available.

He also has gerbers available at 
http://retrocmp.com/tools/dec-km11-maintenance-panel

Todd


From labomb_s at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 09:00:52 2021
From: labomb_s at yahoo.com (Scott LaBombard)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 15:00:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <c6671755-19c2-4838-b83f-e738acbacfd4@charter.net>
References: <20211130180616.BF7C818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <62223222-f1e7-5486-d990-77752395df8d@shiresoft.com>
 <125F84E1-D57E-4D15-8DD3-CA8C97F1B41D@fritzm.org>
 <c6671755-19c2-4838-b83f-e738acbacfd4@charter.net>
Message-ID: <801532747.2189554.1638370852137@mail.yahoo.com>

   On Tuesday, November 30, 2021, 04:24:37 PM EST, Jay Jaeger via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:  > 
>
>Did you use that directly with ExpressPCB and order from ExpressPCB or 
>did you convert to more standard gerbers?

I have a gerber archive for the km11x.pcb file. If anyone can host it where it might be more broadly accessible, I'd be happy to send it along to them.


Scott
  

From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Wed Dec  1 11:55:07 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Wed,  1 Dec 2021 12:55:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
Message-ID: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From the blog of someone who got a KB11-A working

It's Fritz Mueller's blog; at about the top of this page:

  https://fritzm.github.io/category/pdp-116.html

he's just turned the machine on for the first time, and you can
follow as he chases, finds and fixes CPU problems. The KB11-C/D
of the -11/70 is _very_ similar to the KB11-A he was dealing with
(they are _basically_ the same CPU, with a cache, and other stuff
added on the other side from the CPU, on the KB11-C/D), so there
are probably some good lessons to be learned.


    > dunno if Guy Steele

Ooops; sorry, Guy - the brain is starting to drop bits.


    > if the particular machine the system is being built for has an FP11).
    > Perhaps the later BSD versions look for the FP11 on startup, and adjust
    > their behaviour appropriately, but I'm not familiar with them.

The way user code deals with the existence/non-existence of the FP11 is
pretty simple.

In C (other languages probably do something similar, but I only know about
C),one gives the '-f' flag to 'cc', and when 'cc' invokes the linker, on
machines which don't have floating point support, it uses fcrt0:

  https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V6/usr/source/s4/fcrt0.s

as the machine language startup (the thing that calls main()) instead of
crt0. The difference is that fcrt0 sets the UNIX 'illegal instruction'
signal, in that process, to go to a handler which emulates the FP11
instructions.

In V6, as distributed, the binary of all applications which use floating
point are linked this way, so they will all run OK 'as is' on a machine with
no floating point (including those which don't suppport any kind of FP11,
such as the -11/40). When run on a machine with an FP11, there are no illegal
instruction traps, and that emulator code is just never used.

I'm not sure what the deal with BSD is, for machines without an FP11; fcrt0.s
is still included in BSD2.9, so maybe it's still using this approach. I have
this vague recollection that at some point, floating point instruction
emulation was added to the kernel, removing all the signal overhead, but that
might be a bogus recollection.

	Noel

From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Wed Dec  1 12:03:43 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Wed,  1 Dec 2021 13:03:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
Message-ID: <20211201180343.1EE1418C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Guy Sotomayor

    > I don't unfortunately have any light masks

Dave Bridgham and I were manoeuvreing to be able to produce clones of the one
you loaned me (he has access to a computer-controlled milling machine at his
maker-space or whatever the name is for them now, and we bought a good-sized
sheet of the required plastic to be able to crank them out) when I came down
with COVID early in the pendemic, and in the aftermath (I came down with
long-haul post-COVID Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) itgot put on hold. The loaner,
and a micrometer to measure it, are still siting on the table in my family
room, next to my desktop.

If anybody needs some, I can probably try finishing the drawing, and get it
to Dave, so we can resume that project.


	Noel

From cramcram at gmail.com  Sat Dec  4 21:28:01 2021
From: cramcram at gmail.com (Marc Howard)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 19:28:01 -0800
Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
Message-ID: <CAC20j8RmmW-B=c+QFE3peVnGsga4QBZQ-ui47dQv69pK0=73tQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've got an 11/40 I'm going to start working on.  Problem is that there are
two power supplies (H742 and H7420) that came with it but neither was
mounted in the rack.

Could someone post/send/etc. photos of how the power supply mounts in the
rack?  Also how is the power cabling routed (I think I'm missing this part)?

Thanks,

Marc Howard

From w9gb at icloud.com  Sun Dec  5 13:45:21 2021
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 13:45:21 -0600
Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 87, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1638727200.21023.cctech@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.3.1638727200.21023.cctech@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <5172F67E-7C29-4520-9E38-85FDE4C9721A@icloud.com>

Power Supplies, due to their Weight, are placed at the bottom of Racks (prevent tip overs ? weight distribution).
https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=366

The PDP-11/70 Maintenance and Installation Manual (EK-11070-MM-002) explains that the basic PDP-11/70 system components are located in a double cabinet as shown in Figure 1-1 of that manual.
https://i0.wp.com/avitech.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/major-assemblies-fig-1-1.jpg

greg

> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 19:28:01 -0800
> From: Marc Howard <cramcram at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've got an 11/40 I'm going to start working on.  Problem is that there are
> two power supplies (H742 and H7420) that came with it but neither was
> mounted in the rack.
> 
> Could someone post/send/etc. photos of how the power supply mounts in the
> rack?  Also how is the power cabling routed (I think I'm missing this part)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Marc Howard


From jon at jonworld.com  Thu Dec  2 07:58:08 2021
From: jon at jonworld.com (Jonathan Katz)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 13:58:08 +0000
Subject: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
In-Reply-To: <0a1901d7e697$ce698130$6b3c8390$@gmail.com>
References: <3fdf0a8f-4e8f-4987-a64f-a3f00677f2d9@sydex.com>
 <0a1901d7e697$ce698130$6b3c8390$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEOZr+2RZkNALE2pfTPc081GPfkE4EzmQ7QCUTZobZxcnjVpsg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not an official volunteer there, yet, but we do have 9-track
equipment. Right now most of it is on ICL-based hardware.

On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 9:43 AM Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> Chuck,
> I think TNMOC can read these tapes.
>
> https://www.tnmoc.org/
>
>
> Dave
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via
> > cctalk
> > Sent: 30 November 2021 23:57
> > To: CCtalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Looking for someone in London (UK) to read 2 9 track tapes
> >
> > Hey list,
> >
> > I received a note today from a fellow in London who has 2 9-track tapes that
> > he'd like read.  Brands are CDC and BASF, so media shedding should
> > not be a problem.   Dates are '92 and '93, so likely 1600 or 6259.  The
> > tape seal on one (the other has no seal) is IBM-style, which may be the
> > system that produced the tapes.
> >
> > Any takers?  Let me know if so, I'll put you in contact and you can take things
> > from there.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > --Chuck
> >
>
>


-- 
-Jon
+44 7792 149029

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 08:29:42 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 09:29:42 -0500
Subject: Unrecognized DEC Power Supply in PDP-11/44 Configuration
Message-ID: <051801d7e789$0c434530$24c9cf90$@gmail.com>

Does anyone recognize the (presumably) DEC power supply on the front half of
the rack-bottom in the 11/44 listing at:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363640137050

 

Blurry photo, but it looks like there are a 4x3, a 3x3, and a 3x5 Molex
connector, and two brown mini-modules protruding from the right side.

 

If so, then what purpose did it likely serve?

 

It appears that the 6U immediately below the 11/44 was likely occupied by an
RX02 given the presence of an M8256 in the 11/44 backplane (and skinny
mounting rails, although I thought those were usually at the bottom of the
RX02), and that included its own power supply (which wasn't very beefy
either, nor did it need to be).

 

What went into the 6U immediately above the power supply is unclear; there
is a HEX Wespercorp TC130 Tape Controller as well as three unknown QUAD
modules in the 11/44 backplane.  Perhaps there was a horizontal autoload
tape drive mounted there that required a separate power supply?

 

Curious!

paul


From mjkerpan at kerpan.com  Thu Dec  2 08:54:03 2021
From: mjkerpan at kerpan.com (Michael Kerpan)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 09:54:03 -0500
Subject: What happened to control-data.info and controlfreaks.org?
In-Reply-To: <CAD-qYGoECt_2kwY6LdgezgX+h59wOmp5nfU=PVsi-5oLadD7uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+oaVqzEZn2T8ZfJ07RHrdoRWHm4S29XQ76kL1KrNjhX-PdRzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <03D272E2-7B49-487F-BBFD-5CA972728639@lunar-tokyo.net>
 <CAHfSdrXh=44q3cub8ZH8DdFXGErnbE0KWGGWq=0Em-RnMt5=_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD-qYGoECt_2kwY6LdgezgX+h59wOmp5nfU=PVsi-5oLadD7uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHfSdrVFp9VRsDHEJ_32waNrUVk2wbpdpGA4Ld-t53250DzqbA@mail.gmail.com>

I was able to find and archive the CYBIS kit, plus the associated
documentation, as well as binaries and source code for a version of DtCyber
that seem to be from January 2017. I actually have a web server that I
don't use for much, so I'll probably upload it there, as well as pushing
stuff to archive.org.

Mike

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 10:09 PM Andrew Warkentin via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 11/18/21, Michael Kerpan via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > What happened? Looking back at my emails, the list was operating normally
> > until September 3. Then it just stopped. There were normal discussions
> > going on. There was no flood of spam. As far as I can tell, nothing
> occured
> > that would trigger a rage quit.
> >
> > Is the software and documentation that was on the site at least archived
> > elsewhere? Has anybody downloaded it and can maybe upload to archive.org
> ?
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> I downloaded some of the software and documentation from there a long
> time ago and still have it, although I didn't actually scrape the
> entire site. I can upload what I've got to archive.org.
>
> The disk image kit of NOS 2.8.7 with CYBIS has been mirrored at
> <https://codex.sjzoppi.com/doku.php?id=utilities:start> and most of
> the documentation for it is available from the Wayback Machine at
> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20210421202420/http://www.control-data.info/CybisRelease.html
> >
>

From derschjo at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 10:37:50 2021
From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:37:50 -0800
Subject: Unrecognized DEC Power Supply in PDP-11/44 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <051801d7e789$0c434530$24c9cf90$@gmail.com>
References: <051801d7e789$0c434530$24c9cf90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADBZjLYLPQGqUdc7t296xbhMb0UQTACUiVmr7U5xg2jQhZkg5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:29 AM pbirkel--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:

> Does anyone recognize the (presumably) DEC power supply on the front half
> of
> the rack-bottom in the 11/44 listing at:
>
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/363640137050
>
>
>
> Blurry photo, but it looks like there are a 4x3, a 3x3, and a 3x5 Molex
> connector, and two brown mini-modules protruding from the right side.
>
>
>
> If so, then what purpose did it likely serve?
>

It's not a DEC power supply, it's a Fujitsu power supply, likely for an
M2284 SMD drive.  Probably went in the empty slot you mention below.

- Josh



>
>
>
> It appears that the 6U immediately below the 11/44 was likely occupied by
> an
> RX02 given the presence of an M8256 in the 11/44 backplane (and skinny
> mounting rails, although I thought those were usually at the bottom of the
> RX02), and that included its own power supply (which wasn't very beefy
> either, nor did it need to be).
>
>
>
> What went into the 6U immediately above the power supply is unclear; there
> is a HEX Wespercorp TC130 Tape Controller as well as three unknown QUAD
> modules in the 11/44 backplane.  Perhaps there was a horizontal autoload
> tape drive mounted there that required a separate power supply?
>
>
>
> Curious!
>
> paul
>
>

From rick at rickmurphy.net  Fri Dec  3 05:36:27 2021
From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 06:36:27 -0500
Subject: Unrecognized DEC Power Supply in PDP-11/44 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <CADBZjLYLPQGqUdc7t296xbhMb0UQTACUiVmr7U5xg2jQhZkg5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <051801d7e789$0c434530$24c9cf90$@gmail.com>
 <CADBZjLYLPQGqUdc7t296xbhMb0UQTACUiVmr7U5xg2jQhZkg5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec5dbd73-aa9e-1a90-9428-c7e5a2fc0340@rickmurphy.net>

Those red cables appear to be SDI - maybe that spot was an RA80/RA81?
The boards appear to be correct for a UDA50 (M7485/M7486, but it's hard 
to make out the board numbers).
 ??? -Rick

On 12/2/2021 11:37 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:29 AM pbirkel--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone recognize the (presumably) DEC power supply on the front half
>> of
>> the rack-bottom in the 11/44 listing at:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/363640137050
>>
>>
>>
>> Blurry photo, but it looks like there are a 4x3, a 3x3, and a 3x5 Molex
>> connector, and two brown mini-modules protruding from the right side.
>>
>>
>>
>> If so, then what purpose did it likely serve?
>>
> It's not a DEC power supply, it's a Fujitsu power supply, likely for an
> M2284 SMD drive.  Probably went in the empty slot you mention below.
>
> - Josh
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> It appears that the 6U immediately below the 11/44 was likely occupied by
>> an
>> RX02 given the presence of an M8256 in the 11/44 backplane (and skinny
>> mounting rails, although I thought those were usually at the bottom of the
>> RX02), and that included its own power supply (which wasn't very beefy
>> either, nor did it need to be).
>>
>>
>>
>> What went into the 6U immediately above the power supply is unclear; there
>> is a HEX Wespercorp TC130 Tape Controller as well as three unknown QUAD
>> modules in the 11/44 backplane.  Perhaps there was a horizontal autoload
>> tape drive mounted there that required a separate power supply?
>>
>>
>>
>> Curious!
>>
>> paul
>>
>>


From pete at dunnington.plus.com  Fri Dec  3 08:30:05 2021
From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 14:30:05 +0000
Subject: Unrecognized DEC Power Supply in PDP-11/44 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <CADBZjLYLPQGqUdc7t296xbhMb0UQTACUiVmr7U5xg2jQhZkg5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <051801d7e789$0c434530$24c9cf90$@gmail.com>
 <CADBZjLYLPQGqUdc7t296xbhMb0UQTACUiVmr7U5xg2jQhZkg5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1bd6f864-e215-50ac-04d2-106e77caee64@dunnington.plus.com>

On 02/12/2021 16:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:29 AM pbirkel--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone recognize the (presumably) DEC power supply on the front half
>> of the rack-bottom in the 11/44 listing at:

> It's not a DEC power supply, it's a Fujitsu power supply, likely for an
> M2284 SMD drive.  Probably went in the empty slot you mention below.

Yep.  Looks identical to the Fujitsu PSU in my 11/40 rack, and the rails 
are the same as my Fujitsu rails.

-- 
Pete
Pete Turnbull

From osi.superboard at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 15:38:56 2021
From: osi.superboard at gmail.com (osi.superboard)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 21:38:56 +0000
Subject: Datapoint 2200 on ebay
Message-ID: <48cd821c-9e34-d479-63b0-f3e2d3e55628@gmail.com>

In my opinion, the Datapoint 2200 on ebay seems to be a 1100 Cassette 
Terminal.

There are two theories

- It is a true 1108, as the silver machine label indicates. This 1100 
versions showed up in 1974 as described by the LCFGROUP and have been a 
variant to the 2200 with less memory , using most of the 2200 parts, 
except the power supply at the back. This has been re-designed. The 
Datapoint 2200 on ebay is most likely a 1100. But it has the 2200 logo 
at the front, how can this be ? Ken Whitehead may have the answer for that:

StaTuesday 17th July 2012

Ken Whitehead (USA)
Other comments re: confusing the 1100/2200/5500/6600 may have arisen 
from the fact that all of the enclosures for these models started life 
with 2200 molded into the plastic bezel. The 1100, 5500 and 6600 models 
had a separate logo that was applied over the existing 2200 logo. Since 
double-stick foam tapes were used, over time the tape let loose and the 
?new? logo fell off. We had a few customer complaints re: the instant 
downgrading of their computers when this happened! Alas, we know that 
for all of those that complained, many more didn?t, giving possible rise 
to the confusion of what the machine actually was.

- My second theory is, it is one of the 1100 terminals, that have been 
upgraded to a 2200, yes that was possible.

The Dataform_1100_Brochure_1974 says: System Expandability. The 1100 
user need not fear an application outgrowing an 1100's capabi lit ies. 
If additional data input locations are required, the 1100 can be 
upgraded to a Datapoint 2200
DATASHARE System.

Seems this was offered along the introduction of the 1100, about 3 years 
after market introduction of the 2200.With this upgrade came extra 8kb 
more memory (2 more RAM boards) and a new front cover or removal of the 
1100 logo plate ?

In any case it is not a Datapoint 2200 as advertised. A real 2200 looks 
like this: http://datapoint.vintagecomputers.square7.ch/index.html


Anyone with another good explanation ?

Thomas



Sun Nov 28 13:27:20 CST 2021
Previous message: Micro Technology Board Info
Next message: Datapoint 2200 on ebay

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Noticed a Datapoint 2200 on ebay....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275043446827

They're asking $48,000

I want one...but not for that price! :)


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More information about the cctalk mailing list

From cz at alembic.crystel.com  Sat Dec  4 15:46:01 2021
From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 16:46:01 -0500
Subject: pdp8/L restoration time, part 1: switches
Message-ID: <65b11dc5-d4d0-5d7a-a322-e09a9722dbee@alembic.crystel.com>

I've decided it's time to fix my second pdp8/L. First one is missing (I 
think it's at the bottom of the closet) so I'll work on this one for awhile.

First problem: Testing the lamps and switches. If the switches don't 
work or the lamps are out it's not going to be easy to troubleshoot. 
Currently I'm missing 5 of the plastic switches, and I have 2-3 switches 
with a broken pivot.

Since I was going to need new plastic switch covers I fired up the 3d 
printer, downloaded the STL file for making them (thank you for putting 
that up!) and ran off a few for testing. It helps a lot to set the 
bridge angle value to 60% or so, that allows a nice solid bridge for the 
two "teeth" that engage the rocker switch. Also don't bother with PLA: 
The plastic pivots are too weak and break pretty quickly. Use PETG, 
which requires higher heat (240 instead of 200 at the head and 70 
instead of 60 at the base) but it is more than strong enough for the 
pivots to go in without issues.

Testing the switches I found that one of the data/address switches was 
reading high ohmage (20) when closed in the down direction and two of 
the data entry (spring loaded) switches were intermittent. Sprayed in a 
bit of Deoxit, and they now switch cleanly and without bounce. That 
would probably have driven me crazy if I tried to test with that.

Next step: Check out the power supply.....

C

From tdk.knight at gmail.com  Sat Dec  4 16:12:05 2021
From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 16:12:05 -0600
Subject: pdp8/L restoration time, part 1: switches
In-Reply-To: <65b11dc5-d4d0-5d7a-a322-e09a9722dbee@alembic.crystel.com>
References: <65b11dc5-d4d0-5d7a-a322-e09a9722dbee@alembic.crystel.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3rs20AOc9xVcmov233ROGXmo-ys-z6oFzukxAJWCHUTrJ4Vw@mail.gmail.com>

If u hunt around u can find similar switches in e-waste or even new. Then
make some baskets u can attach. Like they did or if u got patience u can
take those right apart and rebuild as the pins sit in a cardboard like
material the plastic switch slides on with metal inserts for making
contact.  Need to get around finishing rebuilding mine.

Mine had been ripped off but it u can see how they are assemble here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/16586222513/in/album-72157651577592077/

On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 3:46 p.m. Chris Zach via cctalk, <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I've decided it's time to fix my second pdp8/L. First one is missing (I
> think it's at the bottom of the closet) so I'll work on this one for
> awhile.
>
> First problem: Testing the lamps and switches. If the switches don't
> work or the lamps are out it's not going to be easy to troubleshoot.
> Currently I'm missing 5 of the plastic switches, and I have 2-3 switches
> with a broken pivot.
>
> Since I was going to need new plastic switch covers I fired up the 3d
> printer, downloaded the STL file for making them (thank you for putting
> that up!) and ran off a few for testing. It helps a lot to set the
> bridge angle value to 60% or so, that allows a nice solid bridge for the
> two "teeth" that engage the rocker switch. Also don't bother with PLA:
> The plastic pivots are too weak and break pretty quickly. Use PETG,
> which requires higher heat (240 instead of 200 at the head and 70
> instead of 60 at the base) but it is more than strong enough for the
> pivots to go in without issues.
>
> Testing the switches I found that one of the data/address switches was
> reading high ohmage (20) when closed in the down direction and two of
> the data entry (spring loaded) switches were intermittent. Sprayed in a
> bit of Deoxit, and they now switch cleanly and without bounce. That
> would probably have driven me crazy if I tried to test with that.
>
> Next step: Check out the power supply.....
>
> C
>

From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net  Sat Dec  4 16:21:04 2021
From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 17:21:04 -0500
Subject: alt.folklore.computers... Altair Bob
References: <00fe01d7e95d$3ac4df10$b04e9d30$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <00fe01d7e95d$3ac4df10$b04e9d30$@verizon.net>

A very, very long time ago, when dinosaurs still roamed the earth (or at least the computer rooms) there was a guy on usenet who called himself "Altair Bob" and offered to buy Altair computers.  This was back when they weren't worth all that much (mid to late 1980s).  He must have bought a dozen or so (as I remember).  Does anybody know who he really was and what became of his (what I'm assuming was a) collection?

Just idle curiosity brought on by a recent discussion of collections being destroyed by widows.

Bill S.


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From cube1 at charter.net  Sat Dec  4 17:21:06 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 17:21:06 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>

On 12/1/2021 11:55 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
>      > From the blog of someone who got a KB11-A working
> 
> It's Fritz Mueller's blog; at about the top of this page:
> 
>    https://fritzm.github.io/category/pdp-116.html
> 
> he's just turned the machine on for the first time, and you can
> follow as he chases, finds and fixes CPU problems. The KB11-C/D
> of the -11/70 is _very_ similar to the KB11-A he was dealing with
> (they are _basically_ the same CPU, with a cache, and other stuff
> added on the other side from the CPU, on the KB11-C/D), so there
> are probably some good lessons to be learned.
> 

Very useful to see as I ponder trying to get my 11/45 (with a KB11-D in 
it) going again.  I think next time I work on this beastie I will roll 
it out from my main room where the lighting and access are just OK into 
my larger room where my PC is kept temporarily, for easier access. 
Going to want to buy a load tester and thoroughly check out the power 
supplies first - which are unfortunately really heavy (and may not be 
mounted quite properly, either), as it has been several years since I 
turned the thing on.

JRJ

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Sat Dec  4 17:57:48 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 23:57:48 -0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
Message-ID: <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via
> cctalk
> Sent: 04 December 2021 23:21
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
> 
> On 12/1/2021 11:55 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> >      > From the blog of someone who got a KB11-A working
> >
> > It's Fritz Mueller's blog; at about the top of this page:
> >
> >    https://fritzm.github.io/category/pdp-116.html
> >
> > he's just turned the machine on for the first time, and you can follow
> > as he chases, finds and fixes CPU problems. The KB11-C/D of the -11/70
> > is _very_ similar to the KB11-A he was dealing with (they are
> > _basically_ the same CPU, with a cache, and other stuff added on the
> > other side from the CPU, on the KB11-C/D), so there are probably some
> > good lessons to be learned.
> >
> 
> Very useful to see as I ponder trying to get my 11/45 (with a KB11-D in
> it) going again.  I think next time I work on this beastie I will roll it out from my
> main room where the lighting and access are just OK into my larger room
> where my PC is kept temporarily, for easier access.
> Going to want to buy a load tester and thoroughly check out the power
> supplies first - which are unfortunately really heavy (and may not be
> mounted quite properly, either), as it has been several years since I turned
> the thing on.

What kind of load tester are you looking to buy? I have an 11/45 which I need to test the power supplies on too.

> 
> JRJ


From fritzm at fritzm.org  Sat Dec  4 19:02:54 2021
From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 17:02:54 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>



> On Dec 4, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> What kind of load tester are you looking to buy? I have an 11/45 which I need to test the power supplies on too.

I picked up a Kunkin KP184 this last year, and it does nicely for testing those brick regulators and the power control boards in isolation (a bit more convenient than the old light bulb or power resistor approach.)

Some of the large electrolytics in those bricks will likely have dried out.  I disassemble and ?reform" these with a bench supply and current limiting resistor on any of these bricks I have not yet personally serviced (Yes, I know the reforming thing is controversial for some.  I think its safe to say it at least doesn?t hurt anything :-)

Check the big bridge rectifiers carefully; I?ve seen a few of those cracked or toasted.

It?s also been my experience that beyond the bricks that are dead or fail at the start, some smaller fraction will also let go after the first few hours of continuous operation.  The don?t tend to fail with fireworks ? you?ll generally get a slowly increasing whiff of magic smoke so generally plenty of time to shut things down.

The operation indicator bulbs on these seem almost always dead.  You can sub CM7381 for the +5V regulators, and OL-6003BP for the -15V.

Last, if you have H742 supplies on your 11/45, be sure to check the small muffin fan above the power control board. It is quite common for parts of the internal wiring harness to rub up against these and stall them out, eventually leading to a fried controller board.

Good luck!  Good winter time project :-)

    ?FritzM.



From elson at pico-systems.com  Sat Dec  4 20:19:25 2021
From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:19:25 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
Message-ID: <2ff02fa8-761c-4ae1-180a-36777c6e59b8@pico-systems.com>

On 12/4/21 7:02 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> What kind of load tester are you looking to buy? I have an 11/45 which I need to test the power supplies on too.

My experience with an 11/45 (serial # 343) was that the 
regulators were pretty indestructable, but the AMP 
Mate-n-Lok connectors burned up on a regular basis.

Jon


From derschjo at gmail.com  Sat Dec  4 22:24:38 2021
From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:24:38 -0800
Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
Message-ID: <CADBZjLZzOZmyo=FJPpJUABAqa5EMxTN5aPRZ9UV+o9Z1qq0GhA@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone sitting on a pile of these or know where to find some?  These were
originally Dialco 507-3917 or Drake 11-507 based on what was installed in
mine.  24V, 40mA, white.

A total of 23 bulbs were dead on my TC01's panel.  I've installed a pile of
electrically/physically compatible bulbs that I happened to have, but
they're yellow/orange and have a different visual design (the yellow lens
sticks out 1/8" or so, whereas the orginals were flush).  I'm honestly fine
with using them but it'd be nice to have something that looks original.

And a small progress update:  Found that the IOT decode for READ STATUS B
wasn't working, which is done on the W103 decoder at E/F19.  With that
resolved the diagnostics are behaving much more rationally.  This took me
much too long to trace down, but I learned a lot about how the controller
works and found a fun (but ultimately harmless) bug in the Basic Exerciser
diagnostic that threw me off for a couple of days...

The Search Scope loop diagnostic shows block numbers going by in both
directions so a lot of the drive and controller are working, but there's
some glitchiness in bits 2, 5, 8, and 11 of the data so I need to trace
that down; I hope it's not the tape head.

- Josh

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Sun Dec  5 03:37:42 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 09:37:42 -0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
Message-ID: <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>

Thanks for the tips. The transformer that drives the bricks is a real beast. Did you find an alternative more convenient way to power them on the bench?

I don't see the Kunkin unit for sale except for a couple of items on ebay from China. I am really reluctant to buy anything at all from China. I couldn't find a manufacturer site for them, and I was wondering if there are alternatives since they don't seem to be particularly available. I did find this which is a bit more expensive (I know Rigol is Chinese, but it seems to be decent quality kit) https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/product/rigol-dl3021-programmable-dc-electronic-load/

Thanks

Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Fritz Mueller via
> cctalk
> Sent: 05 December 2021 01:03
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
> 
> 
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> > What kind of load tester are you looking to buy? I have an 11/45 which I
> need to test the power supplies on too.
> 
> I picked up a Kunkin KP184 this last year, and it does nicely for testing those
> brick regulators and the power control boards in isolation (a bit more
> convenient than the old light bulb or power resistor approach.)
> 
> Some of the large electrolytics in those bricks will likely have dried out.  I
> disassemble and ?reform" these with a bench supply and current limiting
> resistor on any of these bricks I have not yet personally serviced (Yes, I know
> the reforming thing is controversial for some.  I think its safe to say it at least
> doesn?t hurt anything :-)
> 
> Check the big bridge rectifiers carefully; I?ve seen a few of those cracked or
> toasted.
> 
> It?s also been my experience that beyond the bricks that are dead or fail at
> the start, some smaller fraction will also let go after the first few hours of
> continuous operation.  The don?t tend to fail with fireworks ? you?ll
> generally get a slowly increasing whiff of magic smoke so generally plenty of
> time to shut things down.
> 
> The operation indicator bulbs on these seem almost always dead.  You can
> sub CM7381 for the +5V regulators, and OL-6003BP for the -15V.
> 
> Last, if you have H742 supplies on your 11/45, be sure to check the small
> muffin fan above the power control board. It is quite common for parts of
> the internal wiring harness to rub up against these and stall them out,
> eventually leading to a fried controller board.
> 
> Good luck!  Good winter time project :-)
> 
>     ?FritzM.



From g4ajq1 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  5 07:45:58 2021
From: g4ajq1 at gmail.com (Nigel Johnson Ham)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:45:58 -0500
Subject: External SCSI Drives on DEC2000 AXP
Message-ID: <8bd6cf6a-9725-6da8-6ba1-e5d6caa75c08@gmail.com>

I am trying to format a couple of SCSI drives on the Alpha.? They are
connected using the external cable and are mounted in an Open Storage
Systems (OSS) box. The drives were working when removed from a PC.

SRM shows only one of them coming up as DKA200.? I have set the two
drive ID switches to 2 and 3.

Lack of info is hampering me, I have gleaned form various sources that
the following command should work:

>>>t scsi format a 2 0

which just returns

>>>OK

immediately, without doing anything.

VMS allows me to ini the disk, but then when I try to mount it, I get an
operator services message saying it is offline, please mount volume in
_$3$dka200:

Anybody with experience here?

cheers,

Nigel


-- 
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org




From cube1 at charter.net  Sun Dec  5 08:39:09 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:39:09 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <d025d2cd-b349-c16b-9a75-e609cabb0862@charter.net>

On 12/4/2021 5:57 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:

<snip>

> 
> What kind of load tester are you looking to buy? I have an 11/45 which I need to test the power supplies on too.
> 

Oh just one off of amazon, I expect.  One could either get a nice one in 
a cabinet at all for around $280 - $350, depending upon capacity, or an 
less expensive unit for $100 or so.

This one seems intriguing: the price is modest, said to handle up to 
30V, 20A, 200W (could test 5v up to 20A, 15V up to 13A and at 30V, 
derate down to 6A.

https://www.amazon.com/T-king-Battery-Capacity-Tester-Electronic/dp/B07SFD8R4Y


Here is a slightly more capable unit in a nicer case for $300

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Tester-Programmable-Channel-Battery/dp/B091FFSHD5



From cube1 at charter.net  Sun Dec  5 08:51:23 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:51:23 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>

On 12/5/2021 3:37 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:

> Thanks for the tips. The transformer that drives the bricks is a real beast. Did you find an alternative more convenient way to power them on the bench?
> 

 From the schematics, some of them seem to want 20-30 VAC (some, like at 
least one of the -15v regulators, take DC inputs from other regulators)

For lower current initial testing I have some 24v 2A transformers lying 
around.  For higher current, I might use something like this guy:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/triad-magnetics/F-401U/5032226

JRJ

From billdegnan at gmail.com  Sun Dec  5 09:08:39 2021
From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 10:08:39 -0500
Subject: External SCSI Drives on DEC2000 AXP
In-Reply-To: <8bd6cf6a-9725-6da8-6ba1-e5d6caa75c08@gmail.com>
References: <8bd6cf6a-9725-6da8-6ba1-e5d6caa75c08@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABGJBucHq0gb923BaQ=ogyEk-T_M8ap9=dfyVevRMjJ7twJcuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nigel,
If you have two drives of the same volume name in VMS that will cause
issues.  You did not provide a lot of detail to give you specific answers.

Its complex but here is a starting point
https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread_record.cfm?id=604&tid=18

I am a hobbyist in vms, not an expert.

Bill

On Sun, Dec 5, 2021, 8:46 AM Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I am trying to format a couple of SCSI drives on the Alpha.  They are
> connected using the external cable and are mounted in an Open Storage
> Systems (OSS) box. The drives were working when removed from a PC.
>
> SRM shows only one of them coming up as DKA200.  I have set the two
> drive ID switches to 2 and 3.
>
> Lack of info is hampering me, I have gleaned form various sources that
> the following command should work:
>
> >>>t scsi format a 2 0
>
> which just returns
>
> >>>OK
>
> immediately, without doing anything.
>
> VMS allows me to ini the disk, but then when I try to mount it, I get an
> operator services message saying it is offline, please mount volume in
> _$3$dka200:
>
> Anybody with experience here?
>
> cheers,
>
> Nigel
>
>
> --
> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
> Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
>
>
>
>

From abs at absd.org  Sun Dec  5 12:28:19 2021
From: abs at absd.org (David Brownlee)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 18:28:19 +0000
Subject: Testers with Alpha or DECstation hardware with framebuffers?
Message-ID: <CAGN_6pbcTKMkr6btgXEP4H19=Txadryb-v06Y37dEc4gJxyAJw@mail.gmail.com>

I've been trying to fixup NetBSD to build usable X servers from up to
date Xorg for Alpha and MIPS based DECstations, and wondered if anyone
on list had any machines to hand on which they might be willing to
test?

There is a full distribution (individual set files and bootable ISO
image) in http://sync.absd.org/xwsfb/ - the README from that directory
is included below.

If anything is non obvious, or it would help to have test images in a
different format, just let me know

Thanks

David

xwsfb - v1.2

This contains wsfb Xorg builds for NetBSD/pmax and NetBSD/alpha from
2021-12-03 sources

Changes from stock NetBSD tree:
- Add WSDISPLAYIO_GET_FBINFO to dev/tc TURBOchannel display adaptors
- Enable building Xwsfb X server for pmax
- Switch alpha from Xorg 1.10 to 1.20 (plus tweaked bsd_ev56 from 1.10)
- (diffs in xwsfb.diff)

Things to test:
- Any and all framebuffers, TURBOchannel (and also PCI on alpha)
- Confirm if keyboard mapping is correct (and does console match x11)
- Does uxterm work on alpha

pmax issues:
- uxterm and LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 in general do not work
- Escape does not work on gxemul console (not a regression from stock)

To install and test pmax in gxemul
- Install gxemul :) - eg pkgsrc/emulators/gxemul
- Create a 2GB disk image: dd if=/dev/zero of=pmax.img bs=1m count=2048
- Run: gxemul -X -M 256 -e 3max -d pmax.img -d b:NetBSD-9.99.92-pmax.iso
- Follow prompts to install
- At the end - select 'Add a user' and make sure it is added to wheel
- Exit and halt
- Run: gxemul -X -M 256 -e 3max -d pmax.img (wait ~forever for fontcache)
- Login as root, edit /etc/X11/ctwm/system.ctwmrc and change "uxterm" to "xterm"
- Run: startx
- Optionally: (if user is in wheel group), enable xdm=YES in /etc/rc.conf

To upgrade an existing NetBSD-9.99.92 install
- Ensure you have the following from this location (where arch is alpha or pmax)
  - ${arch}/binary/kernel/netbsd-GENERIC.gz
  - ${arch}/binary/sets/xbase.tgz
  - ${arch}/binary/sets/xcomp.tgz
  - ${arch}/binary/sets/xetc.tgz
  - ${arch}/binary/sets/xfont.tgz
  - ${arch}/binary/sets/xserver.tgz
- Copy /netbsd to /onetbsd, then extract netbsd-GENERIC.gz as /netbsd
- Wipe /usr/X11R7 then extract x*tgz from /
- For pmax only: edit /etc/X11/ctwm/system.ctwmrc & change "uxterm" to "xterm"
- Run: startx
- Optionally: (if user is in wheel group), enable xdm=YES in /etc/rc.conf

From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Sun Dec  5 13:04:28 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 11:04:28 -0800
Subject: Disk cartridge storage racks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <c6f78ba5-9607-0685-d03e-60dd68ebf3a6@flying-disk.com>

I am in need of some disk cartridge storage racks.  The kinds I am
looking for are the ones used for front-loading cartridges (IBM 2315,
DEC RK05, etc.) as well as the ones for top-loading cartridges (IBM
5440, DEC RL02, etc.).

They were typically made of welded wire, and stored the cartridges
on edge.  I could use either the free-standing ones that sit on a shelf,
or the ones that were designed to go in a Wrightline cabinet.

I am in northwest Oregon and am willing to drive anywhere in the
neighboring states to pick them up, or pay for packing and shipping.

Thanks,
Alan Frisbie

From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Sun Dec  5 13:12:22 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Sun,  5 Dec 2021 14:12:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
Message-ID: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

Let me get this out before the list gets shut down _again_...


There is discussion of doing a run of indicator panel inlays:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html

for the RK11-C (which is wired for an indicator panel, although as far as 
I know, DEC never did the inlay).

If you're interested... you will need a standard DEC indicator panel light
panel (with flat cables with plug-in-cards on the ends). (I don't have any
insight on how to get one of those. It shouldn't be _too_ hard to make
replicas, but I'll leave that topic for the moment.)

All I am proposing to do is create the silk-screened inlay that turns a DEC
indicator panel into an RK11-C indicator panel (starting with a functional
indicator penel without the inlay).


All DEC indicator panels use the same actual light panel and flat
cables/plug-in-cards (which have one conductor per light in the light panel);
which light comes on is set by the way the backplane slots the
cables/plug-in-cards plug into are wired.

So from the prints, which give the wiring to the indicator panel slots, I
managed to work out what an RK11-C panel would look like, roughly (captions
are made up, but the light locations are accurate):

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/RK11-C_inlay.txt

Starting with that, Dave Bridgham managed to whip up a rough approcimation of
what the inlay would look like:

  http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/inlay-rk11-c.pdf

We had put a certain amount of work into identifying a font which looks like
the one DEC used, back when; I worked with a member the UK to produce a bunch
of blank inlays (right size/shape, with the black paint on the back with the
holes for the lights). Dave then found someone who could print the white
lettering on the front, and this is what the result looked like, on an
'RK11-F' (the QSIC with RK emulation microcode) panel:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/QSIC/jpg/RK11F-F.jpg

You can compare with an original DEC inlay (TC08, IIRC) here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/QSIC/jpg/DasBlinken2F.jpg

That's on the same light panel, just the inlay is changed. (The lights in the
lower one are from the light panel Dave produced for use with the QSIC; it's
totally incompatible, electrically, with the DEC originals; 4 wires, IIRC, run
the whole thing (data, clock, latch and a ground), as opposed to the 'wire per
light' of the DEC originals. Looks _just_ like the originals (which Tech Sq
used to have a lot of, BITD), though.


Anyway, if anyone is interested, the next step would be to find out who all
wants an RK11-C inlay, and work out _exactly_ what would be printed on it.

	Noel


From jsw at ieee.org  Sun Dec  5 13:48:30 2021
From: jsw at ieee.org (Jerry Weiss)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 13:48:30 -0600
Subject: External SCSI Drives on DEC2000 AXP
In-Reply-To: <CABGJBucHq0gb923BaQ=ogyEk-T_M8ap9=dfyVevRMjJ7twJcuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8bd6cf6a-9725-6da8-6ba1-e5d6caa75c08@gmail.com>
 <CABGJBucHq0gb923BaQ=ogyEk-T_M8ap9=dfyVevRMjJ7twJcuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3ffbfc1-ce8d-c8e6-065a-a263740c1208@ieee.org>

DEC was were specific about the settings for SCSI mode that MicroVAX 
3100 firmware and VAX/VMS would accept before enabling third party 
drives in that era. ? Not all early drives that would accurately 
do/report media recovery operations.

Suggest you look at this post and compare to the SCSI drive settings. ? 
Its a bit of work, but I have updated the mode settings for drives used 
on my MicroVAX's.? I cannot speak for the DEC2000.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/RAaUpP_XXEw/m/BWn64YZYwBQJ

Jerry


On 12/5/21 9:08 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:dec2000
> Nigel,
> If you have two drives of the same volume name in VMS that will cause
> issues.  You did not provide a lot of detail to give you specific answers.
>
> Its complex but here is a starting point
> https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread_record.cfm?id=604&tid=18
>
> I am a hobbyist in vms, not an expert.
>
> Bill
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021, 8:46 AM Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> I am trying to format a couple of SCSI drives on the Alpha.  They are
>> connected using the external cable and are mounted in an Open Storage
>> Systems (OSS) box. The drives were working when removed from a PC.
>>
>> SRM shows only one of them coming up as DKA200.  I have set the two
>> drive ID switches to 2 and 3.
>>
>> Lack of info is hampering me, I have gleaned form various sources that
>> the following command should work:
>>
>>>>> t scsi format a 2 0
>> which just returns
>>
>>>>> OK
>> immediately, without doing anything.
>>
>> VMS allows me to ini the disk, but then when I try to mount it, I get an
>> operator services message saying it is offline, please mount volume in
>> _$3$dka200:
>>
>> Anybody with experience here?
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>> Skype:  TILBURY2591nw.johnson at ieee.org
>>
>>
>>
>>

From rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com  Sun Dec  5 14:02:05 2021
From: rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com (Rod Smallwood)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 20:02:05 +0000
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <0adaabd9-39f4-3b82-b460-b67f29704c03@btinternet.com>

Yes I have the blanks for these.

Let me see what artwork I have

Rod


On 05/12/2021 19:12, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> Let me get this out before the list gets shut down _again_...
>
>
> There is discussion of doing a run of indicator panel inlays:
>
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
>
> for the RK11-C (which is wired for an indicator panel, although as far as
> I know, DEC never did the inlay).
>
> If you're interested... you will need a standard DEC indicator panel light
> panel (with flat cables with plug-in-cards on the ends). (I don't have any
> insight on how to get one of those. It shouldn't be _too_ hard to make
> replicas, but I'll leave that topic for the moment.)
>
> All I am proposing to do is create the silk-screened inlay that turns a DEC
> indicator panel into an RK11-C indicator panel (starting with a functional
> indicator penel without the inlay).
>
>
> All DEC indicator panels use the same actual light panel and flat
> cables/plug-in-cards (which have one conductor per light in the light panel);
> which light comes on is set by the way the backplane slots the
> cables/plug-in-cards plug into are wired.
>
> So from the prints, which give the wiring to the indicator panel slots, I
> managed to work out what an RK11-C panel would look like, roughly (captions
> are made up, but the light locations are accurate):
>
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/RK11-C_inlay.txt
>
> Starting with that, Dave Bridgham managed to whip up a rough approcimation of
> what the inlay would look like:
>
>    http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/inlay-rk11-c.pdf
>
> We had put a certain amount of work into identifying a font which looks like
> the one DEC used, back when; I worked with a member the UK to produce a bunch
> of blank inlays (right size/shape, with the black paint on the back with the
> holes for the lights). Dave then found someone who could print the white
> lettering on the front, and this is what the result looked like, on an
> 'RK11-F' (the QSIC with RK emulation microcode) panel:
>
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/QSIC/jpg/RK11F-F.jpg
>
> You can compare with an original DEC inlay (TC08, IIRC) here:
>
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/QSIC/jpg/DasBlinken2F.jpg
>
> That's on the same light panel, just the inlay is changed. (The lights in the
> lower one are from the light panel Dave produced for use with the QSIC; it's
> totally incompatible, electrically, with the DEC originals; 4 wires, IIRC, run
> the whole thing (data, clock, latch and a ground), as opposed to the 'wire per
> light' of the DEC originals. Looks _just_ like the originals (which Tech Sq
> used to have a lot of, BITD), though.
>
>
> Anyway, if anyone is interested, the next step would be to find out who all
> wants an RK11-C inlay, and work out _exactly_ what would be printed on it.
>
> 	Noel
>

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Sun Dec  5 14:24:19 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 15:24:19 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 2:12 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> There is discussion of doing a run of indicator panel inlays:
> for the RK11-C (which is wired for an indicator panel, although as far as
> I know, DEC never did the inlay).
>
> If you're interested... you will need a standard DEC indicator panel light
> panel (with flat cables with plug-in-cards on the ends). (I don't have any
> insight on how to get one of those. It shouldn't be _too_ hard to make
> replicas, but I'll leave that topic for the moment.)

I have both an RK11-C, _and_ a DX11 light panel sitting around (got it
loose some years back)

> Starting with that, Dave Bridgham managed to whip up a rough approcimation of
> what the inlay would look like:
>
>   http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/inlay-rk11-c.pdf

Looks cool.

> Anyway, if anyone is interested, the next step would be to find out who all
> wants an RK11-C inlay, and work out _exactly_ what would be printed on it.

Put me down for one.  I've had this RK11-C for a long time and haven't
done anything with it.  I have always planned to put it back on the
11/20 it came with, but first I need to get the 11/20 going so that's
pushed down the RK11-C.  This would be really cool as a debugging tool
more than just as amazing lights.

-ethan

P.S. - not to derail things, but definitely loop me in on the (future)
thread for making reproductions.  I have access to some tools that
might make parts of it easier.

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Sun Dec  5 14:28:53 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 20:28:53 -0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
Message-ID: <0a0a01d7ea16$b8976a70$29c63f50$@ntlworld.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via
> cctalk
> Sent: 05 December 2021 14:51
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
> 
> On 12/5/2021 3:37 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the tips. The transformer that drives the bricks is a real beast.
> Did you find an alternative more convenient way to power them on the
> bench?
> >
> 
>  From the schematics, some of them seem to want 20-30 VAC (some, like at
> least one of the -15v regulators, take DC inputs from other regulators)
> 
> For lower current initial testing I have some 24v 2A transformers lying
> around.  For higher current, I might use something like this guy:
> 
> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/triad-magnetics/F-
> 401U/5032226

I have a variac rated at 2.5A. I am not quite sure whether that would be sufficient to test the bricks individually. Otherwise, I guess one of these would do the trick https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer ?

> 
> JRJ


From fritzm at fritzm.org  Sun Dec  5 15:18:50 2021
From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 13:18:50 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <0a0a01d7ea16$b8976a70$29c63f50$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <0a0a01d7ea16$b8976a70$29c63f50$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <67D7CC11-F44E-4C61-96EC-41DBA610C5D7@fritzm.org>

> On 12/5/2021 3:37 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> Thanks for the tips. The transformer that drives the bricks is a real beast.  Did you find an alternative more convenient way to power them on the bench?

No, I just used the big transformer, since I needed to bench and disassemble the H742s themselves for cleaning, inspection, and repairs anyway.



From fritzm at fritzm.org  Sun Dec  5 15:26:42 2021
From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 13:26:42 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <924F5B72-812A-4F3D-8065-96EA4CB30DBF@fritzm.org>


> On Dec 5, 2021, at 1:37 AM, Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I don't see the Kunkin unit for sale except for a couple of items on ebay from China. I am really reluctant to buy anything at all from China. I couldn't find a manufacturer site for them, and I was wondering if there are alternatives since they don't seem to be particularly available.

Yes, just about any programmable DC load in this class will suffice.  It?s just convenient to be able to punch in current or power limits, dial them up and down, and have everything including fans, thermal management, etc. in one compact package on the bench.

At the time I was looking, the Kunkin, while yes, from China, had a lot hands-on reviews on YouTube.  So I just went ahead with that.  Worked out okay for me, but one kind of annoying thing is the banana jacks on the five-way binding posts don?t seem quite standard (!) ? I will probably change out the posts on mine.


From paulkoning at comcast.net  Sun Dec  5 15:33:24 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 16:33:24 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <293209B3-A8EE-406D-B426-0695779954CE@comcast.net>



> On Dec 5, 2021, at 3:24 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> I have both an RK11-C, _and_ a DX11 light panel sitting around (got it
> loose some years back)

Now *that* is a wonderfully obscure device.  I wonder if any software for it exists anywhere.

	paul



From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  5 15:43:58 2021
From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 21:43:58 +0000
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Van: Noel Chiappa via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2021 20:12
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
CC: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu<mailto:jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Onderwerp: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?


Anyway, if anyone is interested, the next step would be to find out who all
wants an RK11-C inlay, and work out _exactly_ what would be printed on it.

        Noel

I am definitely interested. Never saw the RK-11C (except once on eBay some 15 years ago)!
However, I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 ?paddle? connections boards.
I developed a 100x160 mm (Euro-card size) PCB with a PIC18F252 and 10 MCP23S17 ICs.
You serially send a command to the PIC and the PIC controls the MCP23S17 outputs.
Per command you control 8 lamps. On the PCB is one difficult part: a 4 position one-slot block
to put the 4 paddle boards in.

Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C front, what would you do to light up the lamps?

Henk, PA8PDP

From derschjo at gmail.com  Sun Dec  5 15:54:49 2021
From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 13:54:49 -0800
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADBZjLa-RmOk4=ewS2Q8s6FAP8B2Uo+7-6ucR8X819f6jsRHsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 12:24 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 2:12 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > Anyway, if anyone is interested, the next step would be to find out who
> all
> > wants an RK11-C inlay, and work out _exactly_ what would be printed on
> it.
>
> Put me down for one.  I've had this RK11-C for a long time and haven't
> done anything with it.


Ditto me.  I snagged an RK11-C earlier this year and my plan is to get to
restoring it sometime next year.

- Josh



> I have always planned to put it back on the
> 11/20 it came with, but first I need to get the 11/20 going so that's
> pushed down the RK11-C.  This would be really cool as a debugging tool
> more than just as amazing lights.
>
> -ethan
>
> P.S. - not to derail things, but definitely loop me in on the (future)
> thread for making reproductions.  I have access to some tools that
> might make parts of it easier.
>

From michael.99.thompson at gmail.com  Sun Dec  5 18:38:26 2021
From: michael.99.thompson at gmail.com (Michael Thompson)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:38:26 -0500
Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <CAH1BU=_RYzQ-5c0bTpFZBp5hrkrZR++2vBXSbiUsG=cp-51LwA@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
>
> The Search Scope loop diagnostic shows block numbers going by in both
> directions so a lot of the drive and controller are working, but there's
> some glitchiness in bits 2, 5, 8, and 11 of the data so I need to trace
> that down; I hope it's not the tape head.
>
> - Josh
>

 So what do bits 2, 5, 8, & 11 have in common? All bits come from the same
track on the tape head, and share some of the path to the Data Buffer.

If you wrote this tape on this system, I would try reading a tape that was
written on another machine to make sure that the problem didn't originate
with writing.

Check for a bad connection where the tape head cable connects to the G851
module in the TU55, where the G851 plugs into the TU55 backplane, and where
the data cable plugs into the TU55 backplane, and possibly the K2 relay on
the G851.

In the TC01 you could swap the G888 module in slot C22, the S205 module in
slot D05, the S205 module in slot E06, the S603 module in slot C02, or the
R123 module in slot E08, with another one to see if the glitch moves to
another bit.

-- 
Michael Thompson

From derschjo at gmail.com  Sun Dec  5 22:45:34 2021
From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 20:45:34 -0800
Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
In-Reply-To: <CAH1BU=_RYzQ-5c0bTpFZBp5hrkrZR++2vBXSbiUsG=cp-51LwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CAH1BU=_RYzQ-5c0bTpFZBp5hrkrZR++2vBXSbiUsG=cp-51LwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADBZjLaRsmHzrkMLJT4NA7LdyHD1T4J_mvaaTnGTdsHpuNqWrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 4:39 PM Michael Thompson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> >
> >
> > From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
> >
> > The Search Scope loop diagnostic shows block numbers going by in both
> > directions so a lot of the drive and controller are working, but there's
> > some glitchiness in bits 2, 5, 8, and 11 of the data so I need to trace
> > that down; I hope it's not the tape head.
> >
> > - Josh
> >
>
>  So what do bits 2, 5, 8, & 11 have in common? All bits come from the same
> track on the tape head, and share some of the path to the Data Buffer.
>

Yep!


>
> If you wrote this tape on this system, I would try reading a tape that was
> written on another machine to make sure that the problem didn't originate
> with writing.
>

The TC01 isn't quite up for writing things yet (well, I haven't tried, but
I suspect it wouldn't go well).  The tapes I've been trying are known-good
DECtapes I have, that I've read on my 8/m with its TD8E without issues.


>
> Check for a bad connection where the tape head cable connects to the G851
> module in the TU55, where the G851 plugs into the TU55 backplane, and where
> the data cable plugs into the TU55 backplane, and possibly the K2 relay on
> the G851.
>
> In the TC01 you could swap the G888 module in slot C22, the S205 module in
> slot D05, the S205 module in slot E06, the S603 module in slot C02, or the
> R123 module in slot E08, with another one to see if the glitch moves to
> another bit.
>

I swapped boards around in the datapath for these bits on the TC01 side
last night and the problem doesn't move.  On a whim I put my thumb on the
tape as it passes over the head and it seems to affect the glitchiness of
the data, at times making it appear to go away entirely.  Doesn't appear to
be a tape tension problem -- it seems adequate and putting my thumb on the
supply reel to increase tension a bit does not have the same effect.  This
would seem to point to the TU55 being the issue, and quite possibly the
heads.  I haven't had time today to look at the signals coming off the
heads but I plan to soon.

Thanks for the help!
- Josh



>
> --
> Michael Thompson
>

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 00:45:15 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 01:45:15 -0500
Subject: Unrecognized DEC Power Supply in PDP-11/44 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <1bd6f864-e215-50ac-04d2-106e77caee64@dunnington.plus.com>
References: <051801d7e789$0c434530$24c9cf90$@gmail.com>
 <CADBZjLYLPQGqUdc7t296xbhMb0UQTACUiVmr7U5xg2jQhZkg5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1bd6f864-e215-50ac-04d2-106e77caee64@dunnington.plus.com>
Message-ID: <0a3d01d7ea6c$d3e77d50$7bb677f0$@gmail.com>

Josh & Pete: Thank you for the identification.  Don't think that the unidentified quad-boards constitute a SMD controller.  I guess the SMD controller was in the second chassis and went wherever the HDD went.  Strange that the PS didn't go with it.  I can feel a bit better for not having recognized the PS :-}.

Rick:  The UDA50 is cabled up the rear of the rack to a connector-plate near the top of the rear-rails.  No photo of the plate present, but the cabling is clear on the side-photo of the rack.  So presumably there was a second rack in the original configuration ... probably also housing a vertical-mount 9" tape drive.

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 3, 2021 9:30 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Unrecognized DEC Power Supply in PDP-11/44 Configuration

On 02/12/2021 16:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:29 AM pbirkel--- via cctalk 
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone recognize the (presumably) DEC power supply on the front 
>> half of the rack-bottom in the 11/44 listing at:

> It's not a DEC power supply, it's a Fujitsu power supply, likely for 
> an
> M2284 SMD drive.  Probably went in the empty slot you mention below.

Yep.  Looks identical to the Fujitsu PSU in my 11/40 rack, and the rails are the same as my Fujitsu rails.

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull


From dab at froghouse.org  Mon Dec  6 08:42:00 2021
From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 09:42:00 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <CAALmimmVNpe_juMAx+Q+VKhcFBtFm102N4+uNPiSUJX8UpAY9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9f183397-6591-fe21-b329-dfa22a5c14c9@froghouse.org>

On 12/5/21 3:24 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

> This would be really cool as a debugging tool
> more than just as amazing lights.


A great lead-in to my story.? I was working away on the RK11
implementation in the QSIC and when I felt like taking a break but still
wanted to get something done, I'd work on the indicator panel.? Of
course, the indicator panel ended working before the RK11.? Just having
144 lights that I could assign to any purpose was useful but then came
the day when the RK11 was mostly working.? I loaded up an RK11 exerciser
program that Noel wrote and just sat back to bask in the glow of the
blinking lights.? It was a good feeling.

Then I noticed something that wasn't right.? Even though the exerciser
was working, I saw a pattern in the lights that showed up a bug in my
implementation.? I'd really only implemented the indicator panel because
I thought it was fun but it lead me to a bug to fix right off.

Here's a short video clip of the indicator panel in operation and
showing that bug.? I'll leave this for a day or two (or until I remember
again or someone asks) and then say what it is I saw.? I think anyone
with a reasonable familiarity with the QBUS will be able to pick it out
though I'll say that "Latched Address" is the address "half" of the
data/Address Lines, that is the value of those signals when SYNC is
asserted.

http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/ip-full.mp4


> P.S. - not to derail things, but definitely loop me in on the (future)
> thread for making reproductions.  I have access to some tools that
> might make parts of it easier.


The inlays are mostly not done with any tools I have.? I do the graphics
with Inkscape.? Rod made up the blanks with silk screening.? Then I have
the white printing done at a printshop I found who has a large, flatbed
printer that can print white ink.? I do have some ideas about how I
might try to make up blanks with a laser etcher I have access to but at
the moment we have an ample supply.

Also, I've experimented with making my own bezels out of PVC board from
Home Depot using a CNC router.? In the pictures below, the yellowed
bezels are old DEC bezels while the white ones are ones I made.? I
figured that if we ever get the QSIC shipping and people want indicator
panels (I hope they'll want indicator panels), I'd rather not depend on
them ripping apart old DEC bezels to make this work.

Anyway, I'd be most happy to have another person with more tools to help
build bits and pieces of this stuff.? I've noticed that as I gained
access to different tools, I came up with different ideas about how to
make things.? I didn't think the laser etcher was all that useful until
I started using it.? Now I want to use it for everything.? Turns out it
can't quite handle 3/8" Delrin; it just melts it and makes a mess.?
Speaking of help, if anyone wants to review the QSIC design, I'd welcome
that.? This is by far the most complex circuit board I've ever designed.


Back to indicator panels, here's a picture showing a bit of the
evolution of my indicator panels.? The video above shows it really
early, when I just taped a paper inlay to the circuit boards.? Then the
bottom panel in this picture is taping that paper inlay to an MDF light
shield.? The top panel is using one of Rod's blanks with paper labels
taped to it.? And then the third panel down is a printed inlay like
we're talking about now for the RK11-C.? The second indicator panel is a
TC08 inlay that I borrowed from Noel to use as a model as I worked on
the graphics for our own.

http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/indicator-panel-stack.jpg

Here's a close-up of the TC08 and our printed inlay.? I'm rather pleased
with how it looks, I have to admit.? The only real thing I'd like to
change is the gloss.? Somehow, DEC's inlay is as flat as flat can be.?
There is no glare to it whatsoever while ours are quite glossy.? I've
looked at frosted acrylic and it's a little better though really it just
diffuses the glare, it doesn't eliminate it.? I've also tried some
spray-on frosting which helps a little but it also has a tendency for
its solvents to melt the printing that's already there so that's a bit
fraught.

http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/indicator-panel-printed.jpg

Dave



From dab at froghouse.org  Mon Dec  6 08:52:20 2021
From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 09:52:20 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>

On 12/5/21 4:43 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:

> I am definitely interested. Never saw the RK-11C (except once on eBay some 15 years ago)!
> However, I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 ?paddle? connections boards.
> I developed a 100x160 mm (Euro-card size) PCB with a PIC18F252 and 10 MCP23S17 ICs.
> You serially send a command to the PIC and the PIC controls the MCP23S17 outputs.
> Per command you control 8 lamps. On the PCB is one difficult part: a 4 position one-slot block
> to put the 4 paddle boards in.

Fun.? That's a way to get some more lights into your life.? I like it.


> Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C front, what would you do to light up the lamps?


I think the only reason to have an RK11-C inlay is if you have an
RK11-C.? Otherwise I can't see that it makes much sense.

The one other place I might, maybe, possibly see one being used is along
with one of our QSICs or USICs.? I could add an option to drive an
RK11-C inlay if someone really thought that was what they wanted but the
RK11-F inlay that we came up with really is a better match and more
functional (which is why we came up with it) as well as supporting the
RP11 implementation that I'm sure I'll get working any day now (snort).

Dave



From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  6 09:13:09 2021
From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 15:13:09 +0000
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
Message-ID: <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Van: David Bridgham via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2021 15:52
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?

On 12/5/21 4:43 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:

> I am definitely interested. Never saw the RK-11C (except once on eBay some 15 years ago)!
> However, I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 ?paddle? connections boards.
> I developed a 100x160 mm (Euro-card size) PCB with a PIC18F252 and 10 MCP23S17 ICs.
> You serially send a command to the PIC and the PIC controls the MCP23S17 outputs.
> Per command you control 8 lamps. On the PCB is one difficult part: a 4 position one-slot block
> to put the 4 paddle boards in.

Fun.  That's a way to get some more lights into your life.  I like it.


> Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C front, what would you do to light up the lamps?


I think the only reason to have an RK11-C inlay is if you have an
RK11-C.  Otherwise I can't see that it makes much sense.

The one other place I might, maybe, possibly see one being used is along
with one of our QSICs or USICs.  I could add an option to drive an
RK11-C inlay if someone really thought that was what they wanted but the
RK11-F inlay that we came up with really is a better match and more
functional (which is why we came up with it) as well as supporting the
RP11 implementation that I'm sure I'll get working any day now (snort).

Dave

If this RK11-C ?blinkenlight? panel would also become available in a 60% scaled format,
I would buy it immediately. It would be an ??bercool? addition to the PiDP-11/70 and
my 60% scaled (?working?) RK05 drive. I only modified the files pdp11_cpu and pdp11_rk05,
and added my own code to handle the 2 switches, 8 indicators and the door / disk loading.
see https://www.pdp-11.nl/pidp1170/rk05/rk05startpage.html (at the bottom of the page).
I will check whether it could be scaled to 60% using standard 3 mm (warm-white) LEDs
(if those exist, else I would probably use yellow-ish).

Henk, PA8PDP

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 09:36:00 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 09:36:00 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>


One dumb suggestion to make it easier to control 144 lamps is to use 
addressable LEDs.? You can control them in banks or all in a single 
serial line.? If you use a single line you can control all of them with 
just 1 GPIO.

Each LED requires 24 bits of data.? That would be 3,456 bits.? The 
WS2812B has a 300uS low start indication and 1.25 uS per bit.? That 
would mean it would take. 4.62mS to update the all of the LEDs.

Since these are tri-color LEDs you can control the color and simulate 
incandescent lamps (Simh and the PiDP-8/i do this with LED PWM via an 
x/y matrix).

Another advantage to the LEDs is once they are set, you don't have to 
talk to them again until you need to change something.

I am going to use a Raspberry Pi Pico RP2040 CPU's PIO co-processor to 
drive the LEDS from a 432 byte array in memory.? All I do is update 
which LEDs I want to change and the PIO DMAs the entire array to the LED 
chain once every 10mS (or slower depending on need).

On 12/6/2021 9:13 AM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
> Van: David Bridgham via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2021 15:52
> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Onderwerp: Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
>
> On 12/5/21 4:43 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
>
>> I am definitely interested. Never saw the RK-11C (except once on eBay some 15 years ago)!
>> However, I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 ?paddle? connections boards.
>> I developed a 100x160 mm (Euro-card size) PCB with a PIC18F252 and 10 MCP23S17 ICs.
>> You serially send a command to the PIC and the PIC controls the MCP23S17 outputs.
>> Per command you control 8 lamps. On the PCB is one difficult part: a 4 position one-slot block
>> to put the 4 paddle boards in.
> Fun.  That's a way to get some more lights into your life.  I like it.
>
>
>> Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C front, what would you do to light up the lamps?
>
> I think the only reason to have an RK11-C inlay is if you have an
> RK11-C.  Otherwise I can't see that it makes much sense.
>
> The one other place I might, maybe, possibly see one being used is along
> with one of our QSICs or USICs.  I could add an option to drive an
> RK11-C inlay if someone really thought that was what they wanted but the
> RK11-F inlay that we came up with really is a better match and more
> functional (which is why we came up with it) as well as supporting the
> RP11 implementation that I'm sure I'll get working any day now (snort).
>
> Dave
>
> If this RK11-C ?blinkenlight? panel would also become available in a 60% scaled format,
> I would buy it immediately. It would be an ??bercool? addition to the PiDP-11/70 and
> my 60% scaled (?working?) RK05 drive. I only modified the files pdp11_cpu and pdp11_rk05,
> and added my own code to handle the 2 switches, 8 indicators and the door / disk loading.
> see https://www.pdp-11.nl/pidp1170/rk05/rk05startpage.html (at the bottom of the page).
> I will check whether it could be scaled to 60% using standard 3 mm (warm-white) LEDs
> (if those exist, else I would probably use yellow-ish).
>
> Henk, PA8PDP


From michael.99.thompson at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 09:39:33 2021
From: michael.99.thompson at gmail.com (Michael Thompson)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:39:33 -0500
Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
In-Reply-To: <CADBZjLaRsmHzrkMLJT4NA7LdyHD1T4J_mvaaTnGTdsHpuNqWrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CAH1BU=_RYzQ-5c0bTpFZBp5hrkrZR++2vBXSbiUsG=cp-51LwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADBZjLaRsmHzrkMLJT4NA7LdyHD1T4J_mvaaTnGTdsHpuNqWrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH1BU=90XewuAL9+vrOp0EsmU6XDi2q1iOzMKgn5MZf5YvFRUA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 11:46 PM Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:

> I swapped boards around in the datapath for these bits on the TC01 side
> last night and the problem doesn't move.  On a whim I put my thumb on the
> tape as it passes over the head and it seems to affect the glitchiness of
> the data, at times making it appear to go away entirely.  Doesn't appear to
> be a tape tension problem -- it seems adequate and putting my thumb on the
> supply reel to increase tension a bit does not have the same effect.  This
> would seem to point to the TU55 being the issue, and quite possibly the
> heads.  I haven't had time today to look at the signals coming off the
> heads but I plan to soon.
>
> Thanks for the help!
> - Josh
>

I would measure the resistance of the head coils at the relay board
connector. Hopefully they all measure about the same. Figure 2-2 in the
maintenance manual shows how the MARK and DATA tracks are wired, and the
extra connection available for the TIMING track. We found a head on the
PDP-9 where the +D0 connection was open.

-- 
Michael Thompson

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 10:22:01 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 11:22:01 -0500
Subject: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels (was Re: RK11-C indicator
 panel inlays?)
Message-ID: <CAALmim=OTgWdAs6UWRUyhyXBx7j9t76PQVqkD8o4N1XatcD1Lg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 9:42 AM David Bridgham via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> The inlays are mostly not done with any tools I have.  I do the graphics
> with Inkscape.  Rod made up the blanks with silk screening.  Then I have
> the white printing done at a printshop I found who has a large, flatbed
> printer that can print white ink.  I do have some ideas about how I
> might try to make up blanks with a laser etcher I have access to but at
> the moment we have an ample supply.

Cool.

> Also, I've experimented with making my own bezels out of PVC board from
> Home Depot using a CNC router.  In the pictures below, the yellowed
> bezels are old DEC bezels while the white ones are ones I made.  I
> figured that if we ever get the QSIC shipping and people want indicator
> panels (I hope they'll want indicator panels), I'd rather not depend on
> them ripping apart old DEC bezels to make this work.

Yes.  I'd rather not demolish my only indicator panel.  I was planning
on demolishing a blank (I have a few short blanks, but most people do
not)

> Anyway, I'd be most happy to have another person with more tools to help
> build bits and pieces of this stuff.  I've noticed that as I gained
> access to different tools, I came up with different ideas about how to
> make things.  I didn't think the laser etcher was all that useful until
> I started using it.

I have a small 40W laser etcher that I essentially haven't used since
I have had access to large-format 80-120W laser cutters.

As for tools, I can rent a 4'x8' Shopbot router at our local
Makerspace that can turn out the light blocking bar or, from your
file, the frame.  We also have a local company (IC3D) that makes
cubic-meter 3D Printers and makes their own filament from pellets,
keeping costs down.  The founders are friends of mine and I've helped
repair sensors on their manufacturing line.  If I had an STL, I could
get a bid on what it would take to 3D print one.  It wouldn't be as
smooth as a machined PVC foam milled one, but it would be strong.
With a little post processing, a 3D Printed frame may give an adequate
look.  Just a possibility.  I haven't worked with PVC foam much but I
understand the principle.

>  Now I want to use it for everything.  Turns out it
> can't quite handle 3/8" Delrin; it just melts it and makes a mess.

That sounds like a power problem.  Normally, Delrin lasers quite
nicely, at least at 80W.  Thick stuff is hard in any printer because
of lenses, beam diffusion, etc.  We sometimes have problems with 1/2"
material of any kind in ours.  I've done some stuff in 2 passes, one
high, one low (refocusing/repositioning Z axis between job runs).  We
also have multiple lenses for different focal points.  One is only
good for etching/surface work, and one is good for cutting 3/8" and
thicker materials.  We usually use the middle one since 99% of what
goes into our laser is 3-6mm stock.

> Speaking of help, if anyone wants to review the QSIC design, I'd welcome
> that.  This is by far the most complex circuit board I've ever designed.

I could take a look at it, I have some background in making Qbus and
Unibus interfaces, but how useful I'd be depends on what kind of
feedback you are looking for.

> Back to indicator panels, here's a picture showing a bit of the
> evolution of my indicator panels...
>
> http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/indicator-panel-stack.jpg
>
> ... The only real thing I'd like to
> change is the gloss.  Somehow, DEC's inlay is as flat as flat can be.

I did notice that.  I have no idea what to recommend.  AFAIK, DEC just
used an acrylic with a specific surface texture.  The only stuff I can
get is like what you have - smooth as window glass.

Cheers,

-ethan

From cruff at ruffspot.net  Mon Dec  6 12:39:33 2021
From: cruff at ruffspot.net (Craig Ruff)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 11:39:33 -0700
Subject: External SCSI Drives on DEC2000 AXP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1638813600.68053.cctech@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.3.1638813600.68053.cctech@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <A6BCF738-7B69-4671-981E-32FF2C3C14C3@ruffspot.net>

Have you verified that the SCSI bus is terminated properly? A missing or improperly configured terminator can sometimes cause those sort of symptoms.

From w9gb at icloud.com  Mon Dec  6 13:02:59 2021
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 13:02:59 -0600
Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
Message-ID: <61EA265E-B54D-45BF-AEDE-EF84369FB321@icloud.com>

Power Supplies, due to their Weight, are placed at the bottom of Racks (prevent tip overs / weight distribution).
https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=366

The PDP-11/70 Maintenance and Installation Manual (EK-11070-MM-002) explains that the basic PDP-11/70 system components are located in a double cabinet as shown in Figure 1-1 of that manual.
https://i0.wp.com/avitech.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/major-assemblies-fig-1-1.jpg

greg

> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 19:28:01 -0800
> From: Marc Howard <cramcram at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet


From dab at froghouse.org  Mon Dec  6 13:45:53 2021
From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:45:53 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1eb36c9c-dc7c-fb7a-cffa-b475f50e873e@froghouse.org>

On 12/6/21 10:13 AM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:


> If this RK11-C ?blinkenlight? panel would also become available in a 60% scaled format,
> I would buy it immediately. It would be an ??bercool? addition to the PiDP-11/70 and
> my 60% scaled (?working?) RK05 drive. I only modified the files pdp11_cpu and pdp11_rk05,
> and added my own code to handle the 2 switches, 8 indicators and the door / disk loading.
> see https://www.pdp-11.nl/pidp1170/rk05/rk05startpage.html (at the bottom of the page).
> I will check whether it could be scaled to 60% using standard 3 mm (warm-white) LEDs
> (if those exist, else I would probably use yellow-ish).


I do agree that it would be very cool to add a scaled indicator panel to
your PiDP-11 and scaled RK05.? You'd have to do new scaled circuit
boards to be driven from the RPi and a new scaled bezel and light-shield
as well as the inlay.? It's all possible but I don't think I'll be doing
it.? You are most welcome, though, to the work I've done on any and all
of those pieces if you want to take them and scale them down.

If you watched the little video I posted of my early blinking lights,
you probably noticed how blue those white LEDs were.? I've since
switched to a different LED that looks, at least to my eye, a whole lot
better.? In these pictures you can see a comparison.

http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/new-led.jpg

http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/new-led-2.jpg

Dave



From g4ajq1 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 14:00:54 2021
From: g4ajq1 at gmail.com (Nigel Johnson Ham)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 15:00:54 -0500
Subject: External SCSI Drives on DEC2000 AXP
In-Reply-To: <A6BCF738-7B69-4671-981E-32FF2C3C14C3@ruffspot.net>
References: <mailman.3.1638813600.68053.cctech@classiccmp.org>
 <A6BCF738-7B69-4671-981E-32FF2C3C14C3@ruffspot.net>
Message-ID: <b583ddd0-375b-a0a8-0592-c1ade259196e@gmail.com>

Yes, terminator installed as it was when the box was on a PC, with the
LED lit.

Thanks

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org



On 2021-12-06 1:39 p.m., Craig Ruff via cctech wrote:
> Have you verified that the SCSI bus is terminated properly? A missing or improperly configured terminator can sometimes cause those sort of symptoms.

From dab at froghouse.org  Mon Dec  6 14:07:34 2021
From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 15:07:34 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>

On 12/6/21 10:36 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:


> Each LED requires 24 bits of data.? That would be 3,456 bits.? The
> WS2812B has a 300uS low start indication and 1.25 uS per bit.? That
> would mean it would take. 4.62mS to update the all of the LEDs.


If I'd known about those when I designed my boards, I might well have
gone that way.? They're surprisingly inexpensive even.

Instead, I ended up using a 16-LED driver chip that basically looks like
a shift-register.? I clock in the 144 bits (just on-off, no fancy
tri-color LEDs I'm afraid), toggle the latch signal, and there it is.?
If you want to support more indicator panels, it's just a longer shift
register.? I then added RS422 driver chips for noise immunity and there
I was.

Dave



From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 15:05:29 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:05:29 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <CAALmimkac6WfucmcetyjU4K7+Cgp7hiZo00UwgHbY4w0jjsP0A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 10:36 AM Mike Katz via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> One dumb suggestion to make it easier to control 144 lamps is to use
> addressable LEDs.  You can control them in banks or all in a single
> serial line.  If you use a single line you can control all of them with
> just 1 GPIO.
>
> Each LED requires 24 bits of data.  That would be 3,456 bits.  The
> WS2812B has a 300uS low start indication and 1.25 uS per bit.  That
> would mean it would take. 4.62mS to update the all of the LEDs.

If 200Hz isn't fast enough for updates, and you have more GPIOs, you
can implement this as, say, 4 strands and write out nybbles.  There
are cheap video wall that use MCUs with DMA engines and pump out 8
strips at once.

> Since these are tri-color LEDs you can control the color and simulate
> incandescent lamps

Definitely

> Another advantage to the LEDs is once they are set, you don't have to
> talk to them again until you need to change something.

Yep.  Self-latching.

> I am going to use a Raspberry Pi Pico RP2040 CPU's PIO co-processor to
> drive the LEDS from a 432 byte array in memory.  All I do is update
> which LEDs I want to change and the PIO DMAs the entire array to the LED
> chain once every 10mS (or slower depending on need).

Sounds like a great approach.  I have a couple of Picos but haven't
dug into the PIO engines yet.

I've been working with WS2812B LEDs for a while now and enjoyed
watching the cost per LED plummet from a few years ago.

-ethan

From paulkoning at comcast.net  Mon Dec  6 16:28:17 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 17:28:17 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimkac6WfucmcetyjU4K7+Cgp7hiZo00UwgHbY4w0jjsP0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <CAALmimkac6WfucmcetyjU4K7+Cgp7hiZo00UwgHbY4w0jjsP0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78D48849-2D1D-4411-A9A6-81A44A1C7804@comcast.net>



> On Dec 6, 2021, at 4:05 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 10:36 AM Mike Katz via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a great approach.  I have a couple of Picos but haven't
> dug into the PIO engines yet.

Raspberry Pico PIO engines are seriously cool.  I used them to implement DDCMP synchronous line protocol in a small USB device wrapped around one of those devices.  That includes the "integral mode" modulate/clock recovery/demodulate functions.

Something I haven't tried but appears possible: 10 Mb/s Ethernet using the PIO.  At least full duplex, and perhaps even half duplex.  Not a whole lot of point in that, I suppose.  

	paul


From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 16:37:47 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 17:37:47 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <78D48849-2D1D-4411-A9A6-81A44A1C7804@comcast.net>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <CAALmimkac6WfucmcetyjU4K7+Cgp7hiZo00UwgHbY4w0jjsP0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <78D48849-2D1D-4411-A9A6-81A44A1C7804@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAALmim=jgVzMKHsa1xiuN1FQUVTUALZ73R11Dp3n-_TAvCY7tg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 5:28 PM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
> Raspberry Pico PIO engines are seriously cool.  I used them to implement DDCMP synchronous line protocol in a small USB device wrapped around one of those devices.  That includes the "integral mode" modulate/clock recovery/demodulate functions.

Ooh!  That's neat.  Sounds like it could also become a nice Bisync or
SDLC serial adapter for IBM protocols (something from _my_ background)

But it should probably get its own thread.  ;-)

-ethan

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 16:45:29 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:45:29 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
Message-ID: <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>

One of my zillions of projects is to redesign Oscar Vermilion's PdDP-8/I 
using the Raspberry Pi Pico board and these LEDs.

I would use one core for SIMH (the PDP-8 simulator) and one core for the 
Incandescent Emulation.

Right now I'm too busy finding parts for my real PDP-8/E and getting it 
running.

Think of the addressable LEDs and LEDs with the shift register built in ?.

When you are ready for a redesign, you might consider it for a cost 
reduction.

If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How do I 
find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify the 
board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold fingers on 
the edge connectors?

Thanks and good luck,

 ????????????????? Mike

On 12/6/2021 2:07 PM, David Bridgham via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/6/21 10:36 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>
>
>> Each LED requires 24 bits of data.? That would be 3,456 bits.? The
>> WS2812B has a 300uS low start indication and 1.25 uS per bit.? That
>> would mean it would take. 4.62mS to update the all of the LEDs.
>
> If I'd known about those when I designed my boards, I might well have
> gone that way.? They're surprisingly inexpensive even.
>
> Instead, I ended up using a 16-LED driver chip that basically looks like
> a shift-register.? I clock in the 144 bits (just on-off, no fancy
> tri-color LEDs I'm afraid), toggle the latch signal, and there it is.
> If you want to support more indicator panels, it's just a longer shift
> register.? I then added RS422 driver chips for noise immunity and there
> I was.
>
> Dave
>
>


From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 16:46:30 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:46:30 -0600
Subject: PDP - 11 was RK11-C indicator panel inlays? -
In-Reply-To: <edaecda4-0e89-eb20-643c-5fa13d0d8776@jetnet.ab.ca>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <edaecda4-0e89-eb20-643c-5fa13d0d8776@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <7eed7a8f-76c2-a2f4-8e52-4adacbf8c4d4@12bitsbest.com>

i'm interested in the RK05 Replica also.

On 12/6/2021 2:27 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2021-12-06 8:13 a.m., Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
>> Van: David Bridgham via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2021 15:52
>> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
>> Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> Onderwerp: Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
>>
>> On 12/5/21 4:43 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> I am definitely interested. Never saw the RK-11C (except once on 
>>> eBay some 15 years ago)!
>>> However, I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 
>>> ?paddle? connections boards.
>>> I developed a 100x160 mm (Euro-card size) PCB with a PIC18F252 and 
>>> 10 MCP23S17 ICs.
>>> You serially send a command to the PIC and the PIC controls the 
>>> MCP23S17 outputs.
>>> Per command you control 8 lamps. On the PCB is one difficult part: a 
>>> 4 position one-slot block
>>> to put the 4 paddle boards in.
>>
>> Fun.? That's a way to get some more lights into your life.? I like it.
>>
>>
>>> Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C front, what would you 
>>> do to light up the lamps?
>>
>>
>> I think the only reason to have an RK11-C inlay is if you have an
>> RK11-C.? Otherwise I can't see that it makes much sense.
>>
>> The one other place I might, maybe, possibly see one being used is along
>> with one of our QSICs or USICs.? I could add an option to drive an
>> RK11-C inlay if someone really thought that was what they wanted but the
>> RK11-F inlay that we came up with really is a better match and more
>> functional (which is why we came up with it) as well as supporting the
>> RP11 implementation that I'm sure I'll get working any day now (snort).
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> If this RK11-C ?blinkenlight? panel would also become available in a 
>> 60% scaled format,
>> I would buy it immediately. It would be an ??bercool? addition to the 
>> PiDP-11/70 and
>> my 60% scaled (?working?) RK05 drive. I only modified the files 
>> pdp11_cpu and pdp11_rk05,
>> and added my own code to handle the 2 switches, 8 indicators and the 
>> door / disk loading.
>> see https://www.pdp-11.nl/pidp1170/rk05/rk05startpage.html (at the 
>> bottom of the page).
>> I will check whether it could be scaled to 60% using standard 3 mm 
>> (warm-white) LEDs
>> (if those exist, else I would probably use yellow-ish).
>>
>> Henk, PA8PDP
>>
>
> USB yuck, is what comes to mind. Other than that the project looks good.
>
> I just built a prototype front panel, with 5 mm white leds, @ 4.5 ma 
> each and they are really bright. You want diffused leds or a filter
> because you can see the phosphor when the leds are off. CMOS 20v10's
> drive the leds and read the keyboard switches. load switches, the
> shift in display data, and read switch data out. Display led data
> for bit of time a repeat. 10 inches long and 5 inches high card size.
>
>
> I have been using 16 meg SD cards (standard size) to emulate RK05
> style drives for home brew 20 bit cpu (DE1 ALTERA), but your drives 
> would make much more impressive system. 5 2901's are planned for
> the cpu card, and the control card has about 12 MSI TTL, 2 512x8 proms
> and 4 20v10's. 10 inches x 6 form factor and S-100 bus connectors.
>
> This leads me to believe that a PDP-11 could be built also at 60% scale
> using PDP-11 parts or 2901's. I would like to see that, rather than some
> PI version.
>
> Ben.
> PS: How much would a RK05 replica sell for?
>
>


From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 16:55:41 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:55:41 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimkac6WfucmcetyjU4K7+Cgp7hiZo00UwgHbY4w0jjsP0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <CAALmimkac6WfucmcetyjU4K7+Cgp7hiZo00UwgHbY4w0jjsP0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cbf9bca0-1951-0c8b-c32b-feb6bb662e49@12bitsbest.com>

Ethan,

I completely agree with reducing the strip size.

One of my projects is a redesign of Oscar Vermilion's PiDP-8/I using 
addressable LEDs.? I was thinking of breaking the 88 LEDs into separate 
strands based on function (step counter & Multiplier Quotient [17 LEDs], 
accumulator and link [13 LEDs], Memory Buffer [12 LEDs], Memory Address 
[12 LEDs], Data & Instruction Fields and Program Counter [18 bits], 
Instruction & States [17 :LEDs]).? That would require 6 GPIOs.

I don't know if the PIO can handle 6 separate GPIOs like that but it's 
worth a try.

 ?????????? Mike

On 12/6/2021 3:05 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 10:36 AM Mike Katz via cctalk
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> One dumb suggestion to make it easier to control 144 lamps is to use
>> addressable LEDs.  You can control them in banks or all in a single
>> serial line.  If you use a single line you can control all of them with
>> just 1 GPIO.
>>
>> Each LED requires 24 bits of data.  That would be 3,456 bits.  The
>> WS2812B has a 300uS low start indication and 1.25 uS per bit.  That
>> would mean it would take. 4.62mS to update the all of the LEDs.
> If 200Hz isn't fast enough for updates, and you have more GPIOs, you
> can implement this as, say, 4 strands and write out nybbles.  There
> are cheap video wall that use MCUs with DMA engines and pump out 8
> strips at once.
>
>> Since these are tri-color LEDs you can control the color and simulate
>> incandescent lamps
> Definitely
>
>> Another advantage to the LEDs is once they are set, you don't have to
>> talk to them again until you need to change something.
> Yep.  Self-latching.
>
>> I am going to use a Raspberry Pi Pico RP2040 CPU's PIO co-processor to
>> drive the LEDS from a 432 byte array in memory.  All I do is update
>> which LEDs I want to change and the PIO DMAs the entire array to the LED
>> chain once every 10mS (or slower depending on need).
> Sounds like a great approach.  I have a couple of Picos but haven't
> dug into the PIO engines yet.
>
> I've been working with WS2812B LEDs for a while now and enjoyed
> watching the cost per LED plummet from a few years ago.
>
> -ethan


From ggs at shiresoft.com  Mon Dec  6 17:07:39 2021
From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 15:07:39 -0800
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>


On 12/6/21 2:45 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>
>
> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How do 
> I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify the 
> board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold fingers 
> on the edge connectors?
>
Anything the size of an Omnibus board with gold fingers is *not* going 
to be "reasonable" especially if you want "hard gold" (which IMHO is the 
only way to go if you want reasonable life of the boards and sockets).

I've used Advanced Circuits for all my boards that needed gold fingers 
(they are *not* cheap...you've been warned).? When you submit your 
Gerber files, you also specify if you have edge fingers and how you want 
them plated.? I have been 100% satisfied with the boards that I've 
received from them.

TTFN - Guy



From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 17:50:24 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 17:50:24 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
Message-ID: <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>

For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and how 
expensive for omnibus size boards?

On 12/6/2021 5:07 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 12/6/21 2:45 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>
>> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How 
>> do I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify 
>> the board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold 
>> fingers on the edge connectors?
>>
> Anything the size of an Omnibus board with gold fingers is *not* going 
> to be "reasonable" especially if you want "hard gold" (which IMHO is 
> the only way to go if you want reasonable life of the boards and 
> sockets).
>
> I've used Advanced Circuits for all my boards that needed gold fingers 
> (they are *not* cheap...you've been warned).? When you submit your 
> Gerber files, you also specify if you have edge fingers and how you 
> want them plated.? I have been 100% satisfied with the boards that 
> I've received from them.
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>


From ggs at shiresoft.com  Mon Dec  6 18:21:44 2021
From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:21:44 -0800
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <aa32d79f-8f85-e692-7de6-8ce51a11eea8@shiresoft.com>

I haven't priced anything out yet.? My current project will have 
reasonably large sized board but will be using DIN 41612 style 
connectors (so I don't need edge fingers).? I haven't gone to different 
board vendors yet to see what pricing will be yet (still settling on 
board size and number of layers...right now it looks like it'll be 4 
layers).

On 12/6/21 3:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and 
> how expensive for omnibus size boards?
>
> On 12/6/2021 5:07 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> On 12/6/21 2:45 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How 
>>> do I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify 
>>> the board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold 
>>> fingers on the edge connectors?
>>>
>> Anything the size of an Omnibus board with gold fingers is *not* 
>> going to be "reasonable" especially if you want "hard gold" (which 
>> IMHO is the only way to go if you want reasonable life of the boards 
>> and sockets).
>>
>> I've used Advanced Circuits for all my boards that needed gold 
>> fingers (they are *not* cheap...you've been warned).? When you submit 
>> your Gerber files, you also specify if you have edge fingers and how 
>> you want them plated.? I have been 100% satisfied with the boards 
>> that I've received from them.
>>
>> TTFN - Guy
>>
>>
>
-- 
TTFN - Guy


From elson at pico-systems.com  Mon Dec  6 18:33:21 2021
From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 18:33:21 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>

On 12/6/21 5:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> For other boards without gold fingers where would you 
> recommend and how expensive for omnibus size boards?

I've been using PCBway in China.? Usually, the DHL shipping 
is more expensive than the boards themselves. Larger boards 
will be less than US $20 each, if you get a few copies made.

Jon



From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 18:43:13 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 18:43:13 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
 <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>
Message-ID: <c330e571-8b81-61f0-0bd5-70e155ec3dd3@12bitsbest.com>

Thank you.

On 12/6/2021 6:33 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/6/21 5:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>> For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and 
>> how expensive for omnibus size boards?
>
> I've been using PCBway in China.? Usually, the DHL shipping is more 
> expensive than the boards themselves. Larger boards will be less than 
> US $20 each, if you get a few copies made.
>
> Jon
>
>


From dab at froghouse.org  Mon Dec  6 18:44:55 2021
From: dab at froghouse.org (David Bridgham)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:44:55 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <61d5068d-862c-67c0-6d92-8ea6dd1ddff5@froghouse.org>

On 12/6/21 17:45, Mike Katz wrote:

> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How do 
> I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify the 
> board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold fingers 
> on the edge connectors?


I was planning to try PCBWay for my boards. They say they do hard gold 
fingers and they have a board assembly option that looks like it can do 
what I need. I haven't used them before so this will be an experiment in 
that direction as well.

If you're using KiCad for your designs (and if the Omnibus uses the 
standard DEC boards), I have templates for double and quad height? 
boards that you're welcome to. Since I haven't yet made boards from 
them, check yourself that they're right before ordering but at least 
they'd be a start.

Dave


From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net  Mon Dec  6 18:44:59 2021
From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:44:59 -0500
Subject: Hand tool to remove a difficult (stuck) circuit board
References: <00c601d7eb03$aa8fa990$ffaefcb0$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <00c601d7eb03$aa8fa990$ffaefcb0$@verizon.net>

I remember seeing this somewhere.  I have done a fair amount of googling
with no luck.

I'm looking for a hand tool with a plyer like grip at the top of a shaft.
At the bottom of the

shaft there is a "foot" that, when you squeeze the grip, scissors open.  The
idea being

that you slide the foot down between a daughter card and the motherboard it
is stuck in

and when you squeeze the grip, it lifts the card out of the slot.  Anybody
know what this

tool is called and/or where to get one?

 

Thanks,

Bill S.

 



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec  6 19:48:26 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:48:26 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <61d5068d-862c-67c0-6d92-8ea6dd1ddff5@froghouse.org>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <61d5068d-862c-67c0-6d92-8ea6dd1ddff5@froghouse.org>
Message-ID: <0244521c-7eb7-d13d-9340-42efcf49157c@12bitsbest.com>

I am currently using kicad for the stuff from other PDP-8/omnibus 
creators but I intensely dislike the user interface paradigm on kicad.

We use Altium at work and I have been thinking about using that.

On 12/6/2021 6:44 PM, David Bridgham via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/6/21 17:45, Mike Katz wrote:
>
>> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How 
>> do I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify 
>> the board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold 
>> fingers on the edge connectors?
>
>
> I was planning to try PCBWay for my boards. They say they do hard gold 
> fingers and they have a board assembly option that looks like it can 
> do what I need. I haven't used them before so this will be an 
> experiment in that direction as well.
>
> If you're using KiCad for your designs (and if the Omnibus uses the 
> standard DEC boards), I have templates for double and quad height? 
> boards that you're welcome to. Since I haven't yet made boards from 
> them, check yourself that they're right before ordering but at least 
> they'd be a start.
>
> Dave
>


From wrcooke at wrcooke.net  Mon Dec  6 19:52:11 2021
From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:52:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
 <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>
Message-ID: <1464671702.2458079.1638841931007@email.ionos.com>



> On 12/06/2021 6:33 PM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/6/21 5:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > For other boards without gold fingers where would you
> > recommend and how expensive for omnibus size boards?
> I've been using PCBway in China. Usually, the DHL shipping
> is more expensive than the boards themselves. Larger boards
> will be less than US $20 each, if you get a few copies made.
> 
> Jon

Another good option is jlcpcb.com in China.  They are very similar to PCBWay.  I and others I know have been very pleased with them.

Will

From fritzm at fritzm.org  Mon Dec  6 23:01:58 2021
From: fritzm at fritzm.org (Fritz Mueller)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 21:01:58 -0800
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <1464671702.2458079.1638841931007@email.ionos.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
 <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>
 <1464671702.2458079.1638841931007@email.ionos.com>
Message-ID: <8842744A-4EF9-4E21-A9E3-45A3BC6ECF13@fritzm.org>

> On 12/6/21 5:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and how expensive for omnibus size boards?


> On 12/06/2021 6:33 PM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I've been using PCBway in China. Usually, the DHL shipping is more expensive than the boards themselves. Larger boards will be less than US $20 each, if you get a few copies made.

> On Dec 6, 2021, at 5:52 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Another good option is jlcpcb.com in China.  They are very similar to PCBWay.  I and others I know have been very pleased with them.

I?ve had good experiences lately with both pcbway and jlpcb.



From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Mon Dec  6 14:27:00 2021
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 13:27:00 -0700
Subject: PDP - 11 was RK11-C indicator panel inlays? -
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <edaecda4-0e89-eb20-643c-5fa13d0d8776@jetnet.ab.ca>

On 2021-12-06 8:13 a.m., Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
> Van: David Bridgham via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2021 15:52
> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Onderwerp: Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
> 
> On 12/5/21 4:43 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> I am definitely interested. Never saw the RK-11C (except once on eBay some 15 years ago)!
>> However, I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 ?paddle? connections boards.
>> I developed a 100x160 mm (Euro-card size) PCB with a PIC18F252 and 10 MCP23S17 ICs.
>> You serially send a command to the PIC and the PIC controls the MCP23S17 outputs.
>> Per command you control 8 lamps. On the PCB is one difficult part: a 4 position one-slot block
>> to put the 4 paddle boards in.
> 
> Fun.  That's a way to get some more lights into your life.  I like it.
> 
> 
>> Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C front, what would you do to light up the lamps?
> 
> 
> I think the only reason to have an RK11-C inlay is if you have an
> RK11-C.  Otherwise I can't see that it makes much sense.
> 
> The one other place I might, maybe, possibly see one being used is along
> with one of our QSICs or USICs.  I could add an option to drive an
> RK11-C inlay if someone really thought that was what they wanted but the
> RK11-F inlay that we came up with really is a better match and more
> functional (which is why we came up with it) as well as supporting the
> RP11 implementation that I'm sure I'll get working any day now (snort).
> 
> Dave
> 
> If this RK11-C ?blinkenlight? panel would also become available in a 60% scaled format,
> I would buy it immediately. It would be an ??bercool? addition to the PiDP-11/70 and
> my 60% scaled (?working?) RK05 drive. I only modified the files pdp11_cpu and pdp11_rk05,
> and added my own code to handle the 2 switches, 8 indicators and the door / disk loading.
> see https://www.pdp-11.nl/pidp1170/rk05/rk05startpage.html (at the bottom of the page).
> I will check whether it could be scaled to 60% using standard 3 mm (warm-white) LEDs
> (if those exist, else I would probably use yellow-ish).
> 
> Henk, PA8PDP
> 

USB yuck, is what comes to mind. Other than that the project looks good.

I just built a prototype front panel, with 5 mm white leds, @ 4.5 ma 
each and they are really bright. You want diffused leds or a filter
because you can see the phosphor when the leds are off. CMOS 20v10's
drive the leds and read the keyboard switches. load switches, the
shift in display data, and read switch data out. Display led data
for bit of time a repeat. 10 inches long and 5 inches high card size.


I have been using 16 meg SD cards (standard size) to emulate RK05
style drives for home brew 20 bit cpu (DE1 ALTERA), but your drives 
would make much more impressive system. 5 2901's are planned for
the cpu card, and the control card has about 12 MSI TTL, 2 512x8 proms
and 4 20v10's. 10 inches x 6 form factor and S-100 bus connectors.

This leads me to believe that a PDP-11 could be built also at 60% scale
using PDP-11 parts or 2901's. I would like to see that, rather than some
PI version.

Ben.
PS: How much would a RK05 replica sell for?



From toby at telegraphics.com.au  Mon Dec  6 20:37:07 2021
From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 21:37:07 -0500
Subject: FTGH: PDP-11 Software Source Book, 3rd Ed
Message-ID: <560f8a64-030c-bd06-9203-ad0b8b4f1e4b@telegraphics.com.au>

Hi,

2 volumes, Applications and System. See:  https://imgur.com/a/ISXGK5N

FTGH for postage from Toronto, Canada

--Toby

From derschjo at gmail.com  Mon Dec  6 23:37:38 2021
From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 21:37:38 -0800
Subject: Source for DEC TC01 (and similar) bulbs?
In-Reply-To: <CAH1BU=90XewuAL9+vrOp0EsmU6XDi2q1iOzMKgn5MZf5YvFRUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638727200.21023.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CAH1BU=_RYzQ-5c0bTpFZBp5hrkrZR++2vBXSbiUsG=cp-51LwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADBZjLaRsmHzrkMLJT4NA7LdyHD1T4J_mvaaTnGTdsHpuNqWrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1BU=90XewuAL9+vrOp0EsmU6XDi2q1iOzMKgn5MZf5YvFRUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADBZjLbuN0rXJYcZzOyR6hjKX4xwasFWMA5KaaNwjJ2NaJDw6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 7:39 AM Michael Thompson <
michael.99.thompson at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 11:46 PM Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I swapped boards around in the datapath for these bits on the TC01 side
>> last night and the problem doesn't move.  On a whim I put my thumb on the
>> tape as it passes over the head and it seems to affect the glitchiness of
>> the data, at times making it appear to go away entirely.  Doesn't appear to
>> be a tape tension problem -- it seems adequate and putting my thumb on the
>> supply reel to increase tension a bit does not have the same effect.  This
>> would seem to point to the TU55 being the issue, and quite possibly the
>> heads.  I haven't had time today to look at the signals coming off the
>> heads but I plan to soon.
>>
>> Thanks for the help!
>> - Josh
>>
>
> I would measure the resistance of the head coils at the relay board
> connector. Hopefully they all measure about the same. Figure 2-2 in the
> maintenance manual shows how the MARK and DATA tracks are wired, and the
> extra connection available for the TIMING track. We found a head on the
> PDP-9 where the +D0 connection was open.
>

Looks like I lucked out.  Testing the head signals at the backplane on the
TU55 revealed that pin BD1 was a flat line at about -0.5V.  Turned out to
be a bad relay on the G851 relay board.  (There was also some gnarly black
gunk on the pins on the head connector which somehow wasn't the
problem...)  I don't have any spare relays, but I swapped a G851 in from my
TU56 and the glitches have gone away.  If anyone has any spare relays for
these, or a G851 lying around, let me know.

The Basic Search diagnostic still isn't finding any blocks on the tape, and
I can tell by the lights on the panel that the LPB register isn't doing
much of anything, so I have some more debugging to do.  But I'm really glad
that the TU55 is OK.  Thanks for the help!

- Josh



>
> --
> Michael Thompson
>

From useddec at gmail.com  Tue Dec  7 02:30:18 2021
From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 02:30:18 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <8842744A-4EF9-4E21-A9E3-45A3BC6ECF13@fritzm.org>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
 <247f26f1-1c16-9e9c-c54c-4db770c31e72@pico-systems.com>
 <1464671702.2458079.1638841931007@email.ionos.com>
 <8842744A-4EF9-4E21-A9E3-45A3BC6ECF13@fritzm.org>
Message-ID: <CACwhfuMM=+qRYv0-aO6zLW5sDMm_p2o1Z3-bxOZpprhR7dr4PA@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone needs a backplane or two please contact me off list.

Thanks, Paul

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 11:02 PM Fritz Mueller via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > On 12/6/21 5:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and how
> expensive for omnibus size boards?
>
>
> > On 12/06/2021 6:33 PM Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> > I've been using PCBway in China. Usually, the DHL shipping is more
> expensive than the boards themselves. Larger boards will be less than US
> $20 each, if you get a few copies made.
>
> > On Dec 6, 2021, at 5:52 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> > Another good option is jlcpcb.com in China.  They are very similar to
> PCBWay.  I and others I know have been very pleased with them.
>
> I?ve had good experiences lately with both pcbway and jlpcb.
>
>
>

From tsg at bonedaddy.net  Tue Dec  7 05:27:15 2021
From: tsg at bonedaddy.net (Todd Goodman)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 06:27:15 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <deb6d186-42b9-ee44-6bd2-dc7f89e9cf21@bonedaddy.net>

I've used PCBCart.com to have thousands of boards produced. Mostly with 
gold fingers

They've done a good job with the boards, though they're mostly two-layer 
and not overly complicated.

You just tell them how many gold fingers you want (and if you get it 
wrong, their design check will clarify with you).

You also can specify if you want a chamfer on the edge and the degree of 
that chamfer

Things weren't good when the tariffs were in effect and the shippers 
didn't understand what the PCB tariffs applied to and what they didn't.? 
That added a lot to the cost.

That's back to normal now but prices are up (like everything else).

Todd

On 12/6/2021 5:45 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> One of my zillions of projects is to redesign Oscar Vermilion's 
> PdDP-8/I using the Raspberry Pi Pico board and these LEDs.
>
> I would use one core for SIMH (the PDP-8 simulator) and one core for 
> the Incandescent Emulation.
>
> Right now I'm too busy finding parts for my real PDP-8/E and getting 
> it running.
>
> Think of the addressable LEDs and LEDs with the shift register built 
> in ?.
>
> When you are ready for a redesign, you might consider it for a cost 
> reduction.
>
> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How do 
> I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I specify the 
> board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should have gold fingers 
> on the edge connectors?
>
> Thanks and good luck,
>
> ????????????????? Mike
>
> On 12/6/2021 2:07 PM, David Bridgham via cctalk wrote:
>> On 12/6/21 10:36 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Each LED requires 24 bits of data.? That would be 3,456 bits.? The
>>> WS2812B has a 300uS low start indication and 1.25 uS per bit. That
>>> would mean it would take. 4.62mS to update the all of the LEDs.
>>
>> If I'd known about those when I designed my boards, I might well have
>> gone that way.? They're surprisingly inexpensive even.
>>
>> Instead, I ended up using a 16-LED driver chip that basically looks like
>> a shift-register.? I clock in the 144 bits (just on-off, no fancy
>> tri-color LEDs I'm afraid), toggle the latch signal, and there it is.
>> If you want to support more indicator panels, it's just a longer shift
>> register.? I then added RS422 driver chips for noise immunity and there
>> I was.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>

From tsg at bonedaddy.net  Tue Dec  7 05:45:25 2021
From: tsg at bonedaddy.net (Todd Goodman)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 06:45:25 -0500
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <aa32d79f-8f85-e692-7de6-8ce51a11eea8@shiresoft.com>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <AM0PR06MB4193E86BC9D962AAC2AE7212866C9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <4dd24a79-931d-efeb-443f-a2420f360d9f@froghouse.org>
 <AM0PR06MB419318D2770CCF5DEAA6D013866D9@AM0PR06MB4193.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <14aef046-f6ad-aa58-718c-27cc3427bd9d@12bitsbest.com>
 <0304f881-443d-597c-22b6-3f34ffefdda0@froghouse.org>
 <99320eb5-6c1b-8f17-d904-9bd3eb8dffaf@12bitsbest.com>
 <e37b8a6f-a80f-562e-5018-f10eef99de1e@shiresoft.com>
 <506bd805-8e06-ad52-bce6-cac05e971c2c@12bitsbest.com>
 <aa32d79f-8f85-e692-7de6-8ce51a11eea8@shiresoft.com>
Message-ID: <a8d48254-f3a5-bc04-0300-40ca75558085@bonedaddy.net>

Board cost depends on quantity, the more you have made, the lower the 
per board cost.

PCBCart.com charges a "tooling" charge for a new design.? They do look 
over the designs carefully and reorders don't incur that charge.

To get an idea, I had a run of Joerg Hoppe's DEC Flip-Chip Extender Hex 
+5 boards made (http://retrocmp.com/tools/dec-flip-chip-extenders)

I had 20 made.? My total (board cost, share of tooling, share of 
shipping and share of customs at that time) per board cost is $42.60 
(I'm selling them for $42 as I didn't get the customs charge until later).

On 12/6/2021 7:21 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
> I haven't priced anything out yet.? My current project will have 
> reasonably large sized board but will be using DIN 41612 style 
> connectors (so I don't need edge fingers).? I haven't gone to 
> different board vendors yet to see what pricing will be yet (still 
> settling on board size and number of layers...right now it looks like 
> it'll be 4 layers).
>
> On 12/6/21 3:50 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>> For other boards without gold fingers where would you recommend and 
>> how expensive for omnibus size boards?
>>
>> On 12/6/2021 5:07 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/6/21 2:45 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I may8 ask a question.? I have never had boards made before. How 
>>>> do I find a good board house that is reasonable and how do I 
>>>> specify the board especially for the PDP-8 Omnibus which should 
>>>> have gold fingers on the edge connectors?
>>>>
>>> Anything the size of an Omnibus board with gold fingers is *not* 
>>> going to be "reasonable" especially if you want "hard gold" (which 
>>> IMHO is the only way to go if you want reasonable life of the boards 
>>> and sockets).
>>>
>>> I've used Advanced Circuits for all my boards that needed gold 
>>> fingers (they are *not* cheap...you've been warned).? When you 
>>> submit your Gerber files, you also specify if you have edge fingers 
>>> and how you want them plated.? I have been 100% satisfied with the 
>>> boards that I've received from them.
>>>
>>> TTFN - Guy
>>>
>>>
>>

From cube1 at charter.net  Tue Dec  7 10:11:28 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 10:11:28 -0600
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
In-Reply-To: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211205191222.57DE018C079@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <5c44ff6d-5613-ae6f-b3b6-8186aeb369b6@charter.net>

I would be interested in an inlay - I have an RK11-C, but no indicator 
panel.

Also, if someone (else, presumably) does up a replica of the indicator 
panel board (perhaps with the option to use LEDs, with some resistor 
packs that could be bypassed for lamps), I'd be interested in that, too.

As a BTW, when I got my PDP-11/20 from the U Wisc. ECE dept. they had a 
home grown 11.5" high indicator panel that watched the bus signals and 
displayed the registers and PSW in LED's.  I disconnected it, but I 
think I left the connector in place on the 11/20 for it.

JRJ

On 12/5/2021 1:12 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> Let me get this out before the list gets shut down _again_...
> 
> 
> There is discussion of doing a run of indicator panel inlays:
> 
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
> 
> for the RK11-C (which is wired for an indicator panel, although as far as
> I know, DEC never did the inlay).
> 
> If you're interested... you will need a standard DEC indicator panel light
> panel (with flat cables with plug-in-cards on the ends). (I don't have any
> insight on how to get one of those. It shouldn't be _too_ hard to make
> replicas, but I'll leave that topic for the moment.)
> 
> All I am proposing to do is create the silk-screened inlay that turns a DEC
> indicator panel into an RK11-C indicator panel (starting with a functional
> indicator penel without the inlay).
> 
> 
> All DEC indicator panels use the same actual light panel and flat
> cables/plug-in-cards (which have one conductor per light in the light panel);
> which light comes on is set by the way the backplane slots the
> cables/plug-in-cards plug into are wired.
> 
> So from the prints, which give the wiring to the indicator panel slots, I
> managed to work out what an RK11-C panel would look like, roughly (captions
> are made up, but the light locations are accurate):
> 
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/RK11-C_inlay.txt
> 
> Starting with that, Dave Bridgham managed to whip up a rough approcimation of
> what the inlay would look like:
> 
>    http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/inlay-rk11-c.pdf
> 
> We had put a certain amount of work into identifying a font which looks like
> the one DEC used, back when; I worked with a member the UK to produce a bunch
> of blank inlays (right size/shape, with the black paint on the back with the
> holes for the lights). Dave then found someone who could print the white
> lettering on the front, and this is what the result looked like, on an
> 'RK11-F' (the QSIC with RK emulation microcode) panel:
> 
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/QSIC/jpg/RK11F-F.jpg
> 
> You can compare with an original DEC inlay (TC08, IIRC) here:
> 
>    http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/QSIC/jpg/DasBlinken2F.jpg
> 
> That's on the same light panel, just the inlay is changed. (The lights in the
> lower one are from the light panel Dave produced for use with the QSIC; it's
> totally incompatible, electrically, with the DEC originals; 4 wires, IIRC, run
> the whole thing (data, clock, latch and a ground), as opposed to the 'wire per
> light' of the DEC originals. Looks _just_ like the originals (which Tech Sq
> used to have a lot of, BITD), though.
> 
> 
> Anyway, if anyone is interested, the next step would be to find out who all
> wants an RK11-C inlay, and work out _exactly_ what would be printed on it.
> 
> 	Noel
> 

From billdegnan at gmail.com  Tue Dec  7 16:16:19 2021
From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:16:19 -0500
Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
In-Reply-To: <61EA265E-B54D-45BF-AEDE-EF84369FB321@icloud.com>
References: <61EA265E-B54D-45BF-AEDE-EF84369FB321@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CABGJBuddFw232DJMuud_M+RY=0gWU9xQ1EpVZqZnLO2z142Esw@mail.gmail.com>

I have seen both upper and lower...if you fish through you can find what
you need here:

https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/
https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40_full-height/
https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40_industrial11/

Bill

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 2:03 PM Gregory Beat via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Power Supplies, due to their Weight, are placed at the bottom of Racks
> (prevent tip overs / weight distribution).
> https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=366
>
> The PDP-11/70 Maintenance and Installation Manual (EK-11070-MM-002)
> explains that the basic PDP-11/70 system components are located in a double
> cabinet as shown in Figure 1-1 of that manual.
>
> https://i0.wp.com/avitech.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/major-assemblies-fig-1-1.jpg
>
> greg
>
> > Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 19:28:01 -0800
> > From: Marc Howard <cramcram at gmail.com>
> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
>
>

From jbglaw at lug-owl.de  Tue Dec  7 16:38:51 2021
From: jbglaw at lug-owl.de (Jan-Benedict Glaw)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 23:38:51 +0100
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
Message-ID: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>

Hi!

Some time ago, I got my hands on a DECtape II, though no tapes.
That'll change after a long time and in a few days, even multiple
tapes will come in.

  With that drive, I started some first tests. It's PSU seems to be
all fine, providing stable 5 and 12 V.

  It's board's wire wrapping is in factory settings, so baud rate etc.
is all known.

  However, when I checked the two drives capstans, they're old. One
has a crack, and as things go, they feel partially either hard or
gooey. Are there recommendations to exchange these for new ones? I
also noticed that one of the two motors rotates quite freely
(both unconnected from the board, so I'm sure they're not magnetically
braked) while the other ... can be turned without any unreasonable
torque, but it won't continue to spin at all.

  Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
drive belts are gone?

  And a final question: There are three firmware versions archived for
the TU58 control board. It's a known version:

jbglaw at charon:~/customers/Glaw/VAX/DECtape II$ md5sum *.bin | sort
0e5f30a960e72c9d64174a4da8f48f50  23-294E2-00.bin
5e059396f779aef9cd80bc75a36c90b2  23-089E2-00.bin
5e059396f779aef9cd80bc75a36c90b2  jbglaw-DECtapeII-ROM.bin
a407fbb5aaa4823a92dd2bc374d1d3ae  23-389E2-00.bin

I guess I got the oldest version? Were there board changes, or could I
put in a compatible 2Kx8 ROM with any of these versions?  I guess any
firmware will probably work "good enough", but if I'd avoid known
problems (are the differences known?), I'd rather avoid them.

  But after all, I'm quite happy that all the bits'n'pieces will come
together in a few days.  Yay!

MfG, JBG

-- 

From cube1 at charter.net  Tue Dec  7 21:48:42 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 21:48:42 -0600
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
In-Reply-To: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
References: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
Message-ID: <4f7561e1-cbe1-5bc1-27f5-ff2675be67ad@charter.net>

On 12/7/2021 4:38 PM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Some time ago, I got my hands on a DECtape II, though no tapes.
> That'll change after a long time and in a few days, even multiple
> tapes will come in.
> 
>    With that drive, I started some first tests. It's PSU seems to be
> all fine, providing stable 5 and 12 V.
> 
>    It's board's wire wrapping is in factory settings, so baud rate etc.
> is all known.
> 
>    However, when I checked the two drives capstans, they're old. One
> has a crack, and as things go, they feel partially either hard or
> gooey. Are there recommendations to exchange these for new ones? I
> also noticed that one of the two motors rotates quite freely
> (both unconnected from the board, so I'm sure they're not magnetically
> braked) while the other ... can be turned without any unreasonable
> torque, but it won't continue to spin at all.
> 

I made some up using some two layer rubber hose from Home Depot, 
sanded/ground down to the proper diameter.

>    Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
> drive belts are gone?
> 
>    And a final question: There are three firmware versions archived for
> the TU58 control board. It's a known version:
> 
> jbglaw at charon:~/customers/Glaw/VAX/DECtape II$ md5sum *.bin | sort
> 0e5f30a960e72c9d64174a4da8f48f50  23-294E2-00.bin
> 5e059396f779aef9cd80bc75a36c90b2  23-089E2-00.bin
> 5e059396f779aef9cd80bc75a36c90b2  jbglaw-DECtapeII-ROM.bin
> a407fbb5aaa4823a92dd2bc374d1d3ae  23-389E2-00.bin
> 

Interesting.  I have no idea which ones I have.  Maybe earlier versions 
came out for the PDP-11 before the VAXen?

> I guess I got the oldest version? Were there board changes, or could I
> put in a compatible 2Kx8 ROM with any of these versions?  I guess any
> firmware will probably work "good enough", but if I'd avoid known
> problems (are the differences known?), I'd rather avoid them.
> 
>    But after all, I'm quite happy that all the bits'n'pieces will come
> together in a few days.  Yay!
> 
> MfG, JBG
> 

From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch  Wed Dec  8 01:43:23 2021
From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 08:43:23 +0100
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
In-Reply-To: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
References: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
Message-ID: <9a6a2a6b-cee6-c950-2b03-5f4dd6b6224b@greenmail.ch>


> 
>    Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
> drive belts are gone?

You can 3D-print replacements.
Use Innoflex filament, 100% fill-in and the following OpenScad formula :

module ring(d1,d2,w)
{
difference()
    { cylinder( w, d1/2, d1/2,  $fn=230);
      cylinder( w, d2/2, d2/2,  $fn=230);
    }
}
ring(38.2,35,6); // TU60 Dectape-II

Already 2 TU60 have been repaired with the above.

Jos




From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 01:59:53 2021
From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 07:59:53 +0000
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
In-Reply-To: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
References: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
Message-ID: <CAHkUCCyH5Y6faKr5ikzM0tYbt7zg3zejyY4AOZ+wYXRr_MR0zg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:38 PM Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

>   However, when I checked the two drives capstans, they're old. One
> has a crack, and as things go, they feel partially either hard or
> gooey. Are there recommendations to exchange these for new ones?

I turned a replacement hub from aluminium rod and used an O-ring as
the tyre. It only has to engage with the drive roller in the
cartridge, it doesn't contact the tape of course.

> I
> also noticed that one of the two motors rotates quite freely
> (both unconnected from the board, so I'm sure they're not magnetically
> braked) while the other ... can be turned without any unreasonable
> torque, but it won't continue to spin at all.

Hmm... Try a drop of light oil on the bearings first.

I'd then try running the motor off a bench supply and measuring the
current it draws. If the 2 motors run properly like that and draw much
the same current then there are no problems.

-tony

From tingox at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 03:56:39 2021
From: tingox at gmail.com (Torfinn Ingolfsen)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 10:56:39 +0100
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
In-Reply-To: <9a6a2a6b-cee6-c950-2b03-5f4dd6b6224b@greenmail.ch>
References: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
 <9a6a2a6b-cee6-c950-2b03-5f4dd6b6224b@greenmail.ch>
Message-ID: <CAJ_iqtYBk4MzRNuRL7be8vE=uPej58gOgBdkhExeL2ex_9u6Xg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 8:43 AM Jos Dreesen via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >    Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
> > drive belts are gone?
>
> You can 3D-print replacements.
> Use Innoflex filament, 100% fill-in and the following OpenScad formula :
>
which Innoflex filament? There are several different hardness variants.

> module ring(d1,d2,w)
> {
> difference()
>     { cylinder( w, d1/2, d1/2,  $fn=230);
>       cylinder( w, d2/2, d2/2,  $fn=230);
>     }
> }
> ring(38.2,35,6); // TU60 Dectape-II
>
> Already 2 TU60 have been repaired with the above.

Useful. Thanks!
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch  Wed Dec  8 04:08:20 2021
From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 11:08:20 +0100
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
In-Reply-To: <CAJ_iqtYBk4MzRNuRL7be8vE=uPej58gOgBdkhExeL2ex_9u6Xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
 <9a6a2a6b-cee6-c950-2b03-5f4dd6b6224b@greenmail.ch>
 <CAJ_iqtYBk4MzRNuRL7be8vE=uPej58gOgBdkhExeL2ex_9u6Xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70826c9-547f-b539-d93c-c56f5d77991c@greenmail.ch>


>>
> which Innoflex filament? There are several different hardness variants.
> 
I used Ninjaflex 3DNF0517505, but that is because it is the only TPU type filament I have at hand.

I would rather use a somewhat harder variant.

Jos

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 05:32:02 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 06:32:02 -0500
Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
In-Reply-To: <CAC20j8RmmW-B=c+QFE3peVnGsga4QBZQ-ui47dQv69pK0=73tQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC20j8RmmW-B=c+QFE3peVnGsga4QBZQ-ui47dQv69pK0=73tQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0de801d7ec27$38d0d9d0$aa728d70$@gmail.com>

Marc:  Do you have the 11/40-specific wiring harness?  Assuming that you do it's a bit tricky -- not so much mounting a given supply (aside from the fact that they are heavy and awkward to work with even when minimally populated), but because there is a very tight tolerance between them to thread the wiring harness.  I've determined the hard way that you really need to install the lower one first, then the harness, then the upper one.  At least for me it wasn't practical/possible to install the harness after-the-fact.  There's also a bit of work involved in threading both of the AC power cables plus the pair of power-control cables (assuming that you're using a DEC power controller) via the right-side vertical rack channel -- which also interact with the power harness placement.  Once everything is cabled-in-place the result is maximally compact, but getting there is not simple.  Yes, the power cable wiring isn't well-described anywhere IMO.  You have to stare at the puzzle-pieces for a while and "dry fit".  Harness shape/stiffness helps eyeball how to fit the pieces together, but the importance of the rack vertical side-channel in making everything fit is not, IMO, made at all clear anywhere in the various documentation -- although it can be inferred from careful examination of a few graphics in various documents.  The 11/40, the 11/45-50-55, and the 11/70 share the same design in this respect so documentation for one will serve you well in any of these cases.  

If you can tackle the task *before* installing the BA11 chassis you'll find it easier.

If you're not using a standard DEC rack or don't have an equivalent vertical side-channel to work with then IMO you'll need to get very creative ... and the 11/40-specifics wiring harness may not work at all and you'll need to build your own.  Fortunately I didn't need to explore that path ...

Good luck!

-----Original Message-----
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Marc Howard via cctech
Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 10:28 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet

Hi,

I've got an 11/40 I'm going to start working on.  Problem is that there are two power supplies (H742 and H7420) that came with it but neither was mounted in the rack.

Could someone post/send/etc. photos of how the power supply mounts in the rack?  Also how is the power cabling routed (I think I'm missing this part)?

Thanks,

Marc Howard


From shumaker at att.net  Wed Dec  8 10:43:45 2021
From: shumaker at att.net (s shumaker)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 08:43:45 -0800
Subject: 370 control panel
References: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115.ref@att.net>
Message-ID: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115@att.net>

up for auction (and NOT on EPAY!): what appears to be an intact? System 
370 control panel in PA

https://hibid.com/lot/107052050/ibm-370-145-mainframe-computer/?q=&status=open&apage=6&ipp=100&ref=lot-list

steve

From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 12:20:29 2021
From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (dave.g4ugm at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 18:20:29 -0000
Subject: 370 control panel
In-Reply-To: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115@att.net>
References: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115.ref@att.net>
 <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115@att.net>
Message-ID: <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>

Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% for credit card....
.. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING"

Give me EPAY any day....

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of s shumaker via
> cctech
> Sent: 08 December 2021 16:44
> To: On Topic Discussion <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: 370 control panel
> 
> up for auction (and NOT on EPAY!): what appears to be an intact  System
> 370 control panel in PA
> 
> https://hibid.com/lot/107052050/ibm-370-145-mainframe-
> computer/?q=&status=open&apage=6&ipp=100&ref=lot-list
> 
> steve


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Wed Dec  8 12:16:14 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Wed,  8 Dec 2021 13:16:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
Message-ID: <20211208181614.CB40818C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Marc Howard  

    > I've got an 11/40 I'm going to start working on. Problem is that there
    > are two power supplies (H742 and H7420) that came with it but neither
    > was mounted in the rack.

-11/40's in general only have one of those large H742x suppplies in a rack.
The documentation and prints all show only a single one - in fact, the 11/40
power harness (which is specific to the KD11-A backplane, at the CPU end) can
only attach to one. The KB11 machines (-11/45 and /70) use two, but their
harness has provision for two.

I don't know of a DEC document that lists the difference between the H742 and
H7420, but my CHWiki page for them:

  https://gunkies.org/wiki/H742_Power_Supply

gives what I think is a pretty good list; any errors or missing details would
be appreciated.


    > Also how is the power cabling routed (I think I'm missing this part)?

That's going to be a hassle, replacing the main harness! Especially since
production of the 8-pin MATE-N-LOK connector shells used to interface to the
H744/etc 'bricks' - part numbers here:

  https://gunkies.org/wiki/DEC_standard_modular_regulators

are out of production, although some vendors have residual stocks. Hoard them
while they last!

The "PDP-11/40, -11/35 (21 inch chassis) system manual" (EK-11040-TM-002):

  http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1140/1140_SystemManual.pdf

has pretty good coverage of the harness; the back end of Chapter 6 covers it
in detail. That's a lot easier to understand than the FMPS:

  http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1140/PDP-1140_System_Engr_Drawings_Rev_P_Jun74.pdf

so read that before you tackle the prints.

Note that there are two different kinds of harness, depending on whether the
machine has MM11-L (-15V) or MM11-U (+20V) core memory. Unless you're
planning on using one of those, you can probably ignore that, though.


Any questions, ask here right off; we have a lot of expertise! :-) ('My'
first -11 - as in, one I was in charge of - was a -11/40. Fond mempries!)

	Noel

From paulkoning at comcast.net  Wed Dec  8 12:26:07 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:26:07 -0500
Subject: 370 control panel
In-Reply-To: <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>
References: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115.ref@att.net>
 <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115@att.net>
 <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4550C159-11DE-4DB2-8BF9-22F3861EF1D8@comcast.net>



> On Dec 8, 2021, at 1:20 PM, David Wade via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% for credit card....
> .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING"

Those are standard auction terms.

> Give me EPAY any day....

It may not explicitly show a buyer's premium or CC surcharge, but you pay for those things anyway, via increased prices charged by the seller.  And you don't get a warranty; the most you may get is protection against non-delivery of the promised item, which in fact you get with any credit card purchase.

	paul


From shumaker at att.net  Wed Dec  8 12:35:21 2021
From: shumaker at att.net (s shumaker)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: 370 control panel
In-Reply-To: <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>
References: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115.ref@att.net>
 <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115@att.net>
 <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36ee4568-deb1-c3b1-8424-acc2e71fd8e7@att.net>

Depends on perspective I guess.. some folks swear at it; some swear by 
it. ? There tends to be fewer watchers and the fees aren't hidden but in 
the end, it's still an auction and you have to play by their rule to bid.

Steve

 ?On 12/8/2021 10:20 AM, dave.g4ugm at gmail.com wrote:
> Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% for credit card....
> .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING"
>
> Give me EPAY any day....
>
> Dave
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of s shumaker via
>> cctech
>> Sent: 08 December 2021 16:44
>> To: On Topic Discussion <cctech at classiccmp.org>
>> Subject: 370 control panel
>>
>> up for auction (and NOT on EPAY!): what appears to be an intact  System
>> 370 control panel in PA
>>
>> https://hibid.com/lot/107052050/ibm-370-145-mainframe-
>> computer/?q=&status=open&apage=6&ipp=100&ref=lot-list
>>
>> steve


From mmcgraw74 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 12:50:57 2021
From: mmcgraw74 at gmail.com (Monty McGraw)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 12:50:57 -0600
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>

I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.

I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.

Here is my photo of it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing

I'm near Houston Texas.

It is too big and heavy to ship.

Monty McGraw

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 13:01:20 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:01:20 -0600
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>

Wow 6 bit baudot paper tape I think.? That's an oldie?


On 12/8/2021 12:50 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote:
> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.
>
> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.
>
> Here is my photo of it:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing
>
> I'm near Houston Texas.
>
> It is too big and heavy to ship.
>
> Monty McGraw


From paulkoning at comcast.net  Wed Dec  8 13:16:08 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 14:16:08 -0500
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>

5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.

That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.

The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.

	paul

> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> Wow 6 bit baudot paper tape I think.  That's an oldie?
> 
> 
> On 12/8/2021 12:50 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote:
>> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.
>> 
>> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.
>> 
>> Here is my photo of it:
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing
>> 
>> I'm near Houston Texas.
>> 
>> It is too big and heavy to ship.
>> 
>> Monty McGraw
> 


From mmcgraw74 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 13:16:25 2021
From: mmcgraw74 at gmail.com (Monty McGraw)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:16:25 -0600
Subject: Fwd: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <CABfggkCVrnq50-uA3USTjCYAe0Nj_6wMdJoJQ5-Q_eer9j4bdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE1er54TAC5YNJsqC18+35XgT+-iQOC9dMaTobKtqe+dAc_RAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABfggkCVrnq50-uA3USTjCYAe0Nj_6wMdJoJQ5-Q_eer9j4bdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABfggkCoUccFJayDQdnqpi+KRgjtXhyaGJRyAiYj5Ak=7B_anw@mail.gmail.com>

Eric,

I would qualify that statement and say - I'm the Tek computer Monty :)

I have a Tektronix 4052 and 4054A, plus two Tektronix 4041 (68000 based
GPIB controller) computers :)

Both the 4052 and 4054A also have Tektronix 401x terminal emulation at up
to 9600 baud, so I don't have a use for the Siemens terminal.

Monty

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:58 PM Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Holy shit Monty, you are the tek terminal Monty.
>
> I just posted on facebook in the tek 4051 basic group, do you know anyone
> with a tek 41XX or 42XX terminal?
>
> -Eric
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 12:51 PM Monty McGraw via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.
>>
>> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.
>>
>> Here is my photo of it:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing
>>
>> I'm near Houston Texas.
>>
>> It is too big and heavy to ship.
>>
>> Monty McGraw
>>
>

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 13:23:25 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:23:25 -0600
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>

I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 
bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for 
DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits 
so I guessed Baudot.

On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
>
> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
>
> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
>
> 	paul
>
>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Wow 6 bit baudot paper tape I think.  That's an oldie?
>>
>>
>> On 12/8/2021 12:50 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote:
>>> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.
>>>
>>> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.
>>>
>>> Here is my photo of it:
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing
>>>
>>> I'm near Houston Texas.
>>>
>>> It is too big and heavy to ship.
>>>
>>> Monty McGraw


From paulkoning at comcast.net  Wed Dec  8 13:52:37 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 14:52:37 -0500
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>

No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side).

DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.

	paul

> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
> 
> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
> 
> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
>> 
>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
>> 
>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
>> 
>> 	paul


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Dec  8 14:27:53 2021
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:27:53 -0700
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26053657-0c30-65cb-5a1e-b867bfd3a032@jetnet.ab.ca>

On 2021-12-08 11:50 a.m., Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote:
> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.
> 
> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.
> 
> Here is my photo of it:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing
> 
> I'm near Houston Texas.
> 
> It is too big and heavy to ship.
> 
> Monty McGraw
> 

It is not too heavy to ship, just to heavy to move out of the basement. :)
What we need is a some guy able to drive around, and pack and ship
all the un-ship able products. Ben.

From dce at skynet.be  Wed Dec  8 14:29:29 2021
From: dce at skynet.be (Dominique Carlier)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 21:29:29 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>

The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only 
works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send 
text in this monster through a computer
Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80

Dominique

On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side).
>
> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.
>
> 	paul
>
>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>
>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>
>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
>>>
>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
>>>
>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
>>>
>>> 	paul

From healyzh at avanthar.com  Wed Dec  8 14:30:49 2021
From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 12:30:49 -0800
Subject: 370 control panel
In-Reply-To: <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>
References: <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115.ref@att.net>
 <003964c8-d8f9-8207-33d0-86089f06e115@att.net>
 <037c01d7ec60$4806a6d0$d813f470$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191D4C57-5308-4909-A8F3-02FF593794BA@avanthar.com>



> On Dec 8, 2021, at 10:20 AM, David Wade via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% for credit card....
> .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING"
> 
> Give me EPAY any day....
> 
> Dave

Personally I?d be more concerned with this?
"SHIPPING IS ONLY WITH PRIOR ARRANGEMENT WITH AUCTION COMPANY ON SMALL ITEMS. PLEASE CALL 814-341-xxxx?

(Note, I blanked out part of the phone number).

With that, this might be a good deal for someone that can pick it up locally.

Zane




From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 14:57:29 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 14:57:29 -0600
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1086d81b-5166-321b-4108-ae1d8b79f158@12bitsbest.com>

You are correct, I counted wrong.? Can I chalk it up to old date and bad 
eyes??

On 12/8/2021 1:52 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side).
>
> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.
>
> 	paul
>
>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>
>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>
>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
>>>
>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
>>>
>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
>>>
>>> 	paul


From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 15:00:57 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 15:00:57 -0600
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <1086d81b-5166-321b-4108-ae1d8b79f158@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <1086d81b-5166-321b-4108-ae1d8b79f158@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <5e228a55-73db-cc30-0a32-0b035ba87281@12bitsbest.com>

correction old age, arthritic fingers and old age?

On 12/8/2021 2:57 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> You are correct, I counted wrong.? Can I chalk it up to old date and 
> bad eyes??
>
> On 12/8/2021 1:52 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> No, it's 5 bit tape.? 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
>> bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
>> the punch (left side).
>>
>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember 
>> those appearing on punched tape.? The punched tape machines I have 
>> seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape 
>> operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era 
>> phototypesetters.? Those are upper/lower case.
>>
>> ????paul
>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
>>> is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
>>> except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
>>> tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>
>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
>>>> codes.
>>>>
>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
>>>> Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, 
>>>> the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other 
>>>> function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same 
>>>> model.
>>>>
>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
>>>> a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.? And also 
>>>> that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
>>>> than as non-printing fill.
>>>>
>>>> ????paul
>


From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec  8 15:58:13 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 21:58:13 -0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net> 
Message-ID: <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>



> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger
> > via cctalk
> > Sent: 05 December 2021 14:51
> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
> >
> > On 12/5/2021 3:37 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the tips. The transformer that drives the bricks is a real beast.
> > Did you find an alternative more convenient way to power them on the
> > bench?
> > >
> >
> >  From the schematics, some of them seem to want 20-30 VAC (some, like
> > at least one of the -15v regulators, take DC inputs from other
> > regulators)
> >
> > For lower current initial testing I have some 24v 2A transformers
> > lying around.  For higher current, I might use something like this guy:
> >
> > https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/triad-magnetics/F-
> > 401U/5032226
> 

> I have a variac rated at 2.5A. I am not quite sure whether that would be
> sufficient to test the bricks individually. Otherwise, I guess one of these
> would do the trick https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-
> 250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer ?

So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer

Thanks

Rob


> 
> >
> > JRJ


From wrcooke at wrcooke.net  Wed Dec  8 16:22:38 2021
From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 16:22:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>



> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> > >
> > > JRJ

As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage.  So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.  With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of).

Will

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."
Richard Feynman

From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Wed Dec  8 16:38:03 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Wed,  8 Dec 2021 17:38:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
Message-ID: <20211208223803.B1E0D18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Rod Smallwood

    > Let me see what artwork I have

I'm curious as to what you'd be able to find. Like I said, I'm pretty sure
DEC never did an RK11-C inlay; the engineering drawings for the 19" indicator
panel (included in the RF11 engineering drawings:

  http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RF11_EngrDrws_Oct70.pdf

on pp. 187-188) list many inlays, but not an RK11 one. Also, I've looked
through the RK11-C manual:

  http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RK11-C_manual1971.pdf

but it contains no mention of an indicator panel, which it surely would if
there was one.


    > From: Henk Gooijen

    > I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 'paddle'
    > connections boards. ... Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C
    > front, what would you do to light up the lamps?

Uhhh... plug the paddle boards on the end of the flat cables from the
indicator panel into the pre-wired slots in the RK11-C backplane (see the
RK11-C engineering drawings:

  http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RK11-C_schemFeb1971.pdf

pg. 36)? :-)

Hence my comment that to make use of the _inlay_ I proposed to produce, one
had to have an RK11-C _and_ a spare DEC indicator panel...

	Noel

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 16:44:14 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 16:44:14 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
Message-ID: <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>

"As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full 
rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 
1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of)."

Up to the current rating of the variac.? When you draw more current than 
the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.

On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>>> JRJ
> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage.  So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.  With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of).
>
> Will
>
> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."
> Richard Feynman


From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 16:57:58 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 16:57:58 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>

More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" 
after all.

If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A 
at 100V.

On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full 
> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A 
> at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort 
> of)."
>
> Up to the current rating of the variac.? When you draw more current 
> than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.
>
> On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A 
>>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 
>>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, 
>>> would this do the trick? 
>>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>>> JRJ
>> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full 
>> rated current at any output voltage.? So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 
>> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.? With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, 
>> sort of).
>>
>> Will
>>
>> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change 
>> that here and there."
>> Richard Feynman
>


From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 17:06:31 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 18:06:31 -0500
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
 <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <0ed801d7ec88$3dabdde0$b90399a0$@gmail.com>

Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at lower voltages.  20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely?

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; wrcooke at wrcooke.net
Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards

More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" 
after all.

If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V.

On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full 
> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A 
> at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort 
> of)."
>
> Up to the current rating of the variac.  When you draw more current 
> than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.
>
> On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A 
>>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 
>>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, 
>>> would this do the trick?
>>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-
>>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>>> JRJ
>> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full 
>> rated current at any output voltage.  So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 
>> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.  With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, 
>> sort of).
>>
>> Will
>>
>> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change 
>> that here and there."
>> Richard Feynman
>



From wrcooke at wrcooke.net  Wed Dec  8 17:13:13 2021
From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 17:13:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <0ed801d7ec88$3dabdde0$b90399a0$@gmail.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
 <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
 <0ed801d7ec88$3dabdde0$b90399a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2072194106.713236.1639005193779@email.ionos.com>

Variable transformers (generic. Variac is a trademarked brand of them) are rated in amps output, not in watts or, more accurately, volt-amps. That is because they are rated to deliver that current at ANY voltage. The main limiting factor is flux density in the core. The flux density is proportional to the current. So, the rated current (e.g. 2.5 amps in the original question) can be drawn at ANY output voltage without overloading the core. At 1V out, you get 2.5 volt-amps. At 120V out you get 300 volt-amps. The current is the same, so the IR (resistive) losses of voltage are the same.

If you draw more current than the rated current, then the core will be overloaded. It will most likely overheat and will possibly be permanently damaged. In addition, the IR losses will increase, causing more overheating.

> On 12/08/2021 5:06 PM pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at lower voltages. 20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; wrcooke at wrcooke.net
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
> 
> More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current"
> after all.
> 
> If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V.
> 
> On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
> > rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A
> > at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort
> > of)."
> > Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current
> > than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.
> > On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> >>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A
> >>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at
> >>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise,
> >>> would this do the trick?
> >>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-
> >>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Rob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> JRJ
> >> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
> >> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5
> >> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts,
> >> sort of).
> >>
> >> Will
> >>
> >> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change
> >> that here and there."
> >> Richard Feynman
> >

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."
Richard Feynman

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec  8 17:14:02 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 23:14:02 -0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
 <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <008401d7ec89$4aabd990$e0038cb0$@ntlworld.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Mike Katz via
> cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2021 22:58
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; wrcooke at wrcooke.net
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
> 
> More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current"
> after all.
> 
> If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at
> 100V.


The problem is that it isn't marked with a wattage, just a current, which left me wondering at what voltage. Although Will Cooke's response seems to be that the voltage doesn't matter, so at 240VAC it would be 600W. Can that be right?


> 
> On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
> > rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A
> > at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort
> > of)."
> >
> > Up to the current rating of the variac.  When you draw more current
> > than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.
> >
> > On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A
> >>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at
> >>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise,
> >>> would this do the trick?
> >>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-
> >>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Rob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> JRJ
> >> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
> >> rated current at any output voltage.  So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5
> >> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.  With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts,
> >> sort of).
> >>
> >> Will
> >>
> >> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change
> >> that here and there."
> >> Richard Feynman
> >


From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Wed Dec  8 17:14:07 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 17:14:07 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <0ed801d7ec88$3dabdde0$b90399a0$@gmail.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
 <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
 <0ed801d7ec88$3dabdde0$b90399a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bdef216e-07c1-f1ce-49ea-92467b6e9618@12bitsbest.com>

That would depend on the type and size of wire (solid core, stranded, 
strands of stranded, etc.).

On 12/8/2021 5:06 PM, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
> Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at lower voltages.  20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; wrcooke at wrcooke.net
> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
>
> More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current"
> after all.
>
> If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V.
>
> On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>> "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
>> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A
>> at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort
>> of)."
>>
>> Up to the current rating of the variac.  When you draw more current
>> than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.
>>
>> On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
>>>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A
>>>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at
>>>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise,
>>>> would this do the trick?
>>>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-
>>>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> JRJ
>>> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
>>> rated current at any output voltage.  So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5
>>> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.  With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts,
>>> sort of).
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change
>>> that here and there."
>>> Richard Feynman
>


From curiousmarc3 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 17:21:25 2021
From: curiousmarc3 at gmail.com (Curious Marc)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 15:21:25 -0800
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
References: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>

Dominique,
Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR
Matc

> On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> ?The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send text in this monster through a computer
> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
> 
> Dominique
> 
>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side).
>> 
>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.
>> 
>>    paul
>> 
>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>> 
>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
>>>> 
>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
>>>> 
>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
>>>> 
>>>>    paul

From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  8 17:24:58 2021
From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 23:24:58 +0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <bdef216e-07c1-f1ce-49ea-92467b6e9618@12bitsbest.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
 <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
 <0ed801d7ec88$3dabdde0$b90399a0$@gmail.com>
 <bdef216e-07c1-f1ce-49ea-92467b6e9618@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <MW4PR01MB6452FA437359876804D20EB3E46F9@MW4PR01MB6452.prod.exchangelabs.com>

The 2 variac?s I?ve worked with were fused and if you exceeded the fuse rating it blue no matter the voltage. You want to protect the variac if you get a short circuit.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2021, at 15:14, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> ?That would depend on the type and size of wire (solid core, stranded, strands of stranded, etc.).
> 
>> On 12/8/2021 5:06 PM, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
>> Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at lower voltages.  20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; wrcooke at wrcooke.net
>> Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
>> 
>> More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current"
>> after all.
>> 
>> If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V.
>> 
>>> On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>> "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
>>> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A
>>> at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort
>>> of)."
>>> 
>>> Up to the current rating of the variac.  When you draw more current
>>> than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag.
>>> 
>>> On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
>>>>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A
>>>>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at
>>>>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise,
>>>>> would this do the trick?
>>>>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-
>>>>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> JRJ
>>>> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full
>>>> rated current at any output voltage.  So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5
>>>> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc.  With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts,
>>>> sort of).
>>>> 
>>>> Will
>>>> 
>>>> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change
>>>> that here and there."
>>>> Richard Feynman
>> 
> 

From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  8 17:59:24 2021
From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 18:59:24 -0500
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>
References: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR06MB55807BDC8B092B2789F3C827ED6F9@DM6PR06MB5580.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

On 12/8/21 6:21 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
> Dominique,
> Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR

While I saw a number of them in Germany back in the 70's I
was never lucky enough to have one.  I did have a Lorenz LO-15
though and it was the first printer I had on my TRS-80.

bill


From cz at alembic.crystel.com  Wed Dec  8 18:11:19 2021
From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 19:11:19 -0500
Subject: DEC AF01, open for offers
Message-ID: <64d878a9-6a16-3d49-0907-cc4b8005c6b3@alembic.crystel.com>

Would anyone like to make an offer on this AF01? It's a multi-channel 
A/D converter for old pdp8 and pdp12's. I really don't think I need it, 
I just pulled it out of my closet, and I don't want to put it back in.

Copy me off list. Complete, multiple MUX channels (16 A121's) the A704 
and the op amp (A200)

From dce at skynet.be  Wed Dec  8 18:25:08 2021
From: dce at skynet.be (Dominique Carlier)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 01:25:08 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>
References: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bddebdbf-c452-f3de-d51b-004be3c6290c@skynet.be>

Thanks Marc for these information.? I will go study this from your link ;)

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 00:21, Curious Marc wrote:
> Dominique,
> Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from 
> the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe 
> board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for 
> you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: 
> https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR
> Matc
>
>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which 
>> only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to 
>> send text in this monster through a computer
>> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
>>
>> Dominique
>>
>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>> No, it's 5 bit tape. ?2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
>>> bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
>>> the punch (left side).
>>>
>>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember 
>>> those appearing on punched tape. ?The punched tape machines I have 
>>> seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape 
>>> operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era 
>>> phototypesetters. ?Those are upper/lower case.
>>>
>>> ? ?paul
>>>
>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
>>>> is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
>>>> except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
>>>> tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
>>>>> codes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
>>>>> Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, 
>>>>> the figures shift character on the D key. ?But some of the other 
>>>>> function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same 
>>>>> model.
>>>>>
>>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
>>>>> a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. ?And also 
>>>>> that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
>>>>> than as non-printing fill.
>>>>>
>>>>> ? ?paul

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 19:39:31 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 20:39:31 -0500
Subject: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
In-Reply-To: <9a6a2a6b-cee6-c950-2b03-5f4dd6b6224b@greenmail.ch>
References: <20211207223851.u6k5xdxxou63b4wn@lug-owl.de>
 <9a6a2a6b-cee6-c950-2b03-5f4dd6b6224b@greenmail.ch>
Message-ID: <CAALmimnLoRfP9BYp0DoMykNBSnzXwPn4HHnz638iaxWgYHQEUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 2:43 AM Jos Dreesen via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >    Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
> > drive belts are gone?
>
> You can 3D-print replacements.
> Use Innoflex filament, 100% fill-in and the following OpenScad formula :
>
> module ring(d1,d2,w)
> {
> difference()
>     { cylinder( w, d1/2, d1/2,  $fn=230);
>       cylinder( w, d2/2, d2/2,  $fn=230);
>     }
> }
> ring(38.2,35,6); // TU60 Dectape-II

Cool.  Thanks for sharing that!

> Already 2 TU60 have been repaired with the above.

TU60 are direct-drive digital cassettes.

https://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/tape/tu60-info.html

The TU58 uses DC100 cartridges.

http://www.hp9825.com/html/dc100_tape.html

I had a boss who recycled some DEC TU58 for our HP 4951A serial
analyzer.  It can format cassettes, the TU58 cannot, so it's a
one-way-trip.

-ethan

From wrcooke at wrcooke.net  Wed Dec  8 19:28:38 2021
From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 19:28:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <008401d7ec89$4aabd990$e0038cb0$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <532347356.710320.1639002158873@email.ionos.com>
 <36e7b664-383a-44c6-9953-c1404a63c275@12bitsbest.com>
 <ddc7e631-56b3-7d97-cdb2-02e5e63692cb@12bitsbest.com>
 <008401d7ec89$4aabd990$e0038cb0$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <1907254655.1201985.1639013318114@email.ionos.com>

> On 12/08/2021 5:14 PM Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:


> 
> 
> The problem is that it isn't marked with a wattage, just a current, which left me wondering at what voltage. Although Will Cooke's response seems to be that the voltage doesn't matter, so at 240VAC it would be 600W. Can that be right?


My previous response was a bit misleading and not completely accurate. Sorry. I was trying to rush out the door.


Variacs are rated for max current. In the stated case, 2.5 amps. They can provide that current at any output voltage. So, the maximum wattage (actually volts-amps, which is a bit different) will be 2.5 amps * highest output voltage. (Some are possibly rated at for that current when the output voltage does not exceed the input. They can usually go higher than the input by 20% or so) They can provide that same current at any voltage UP TO that max output voltage. In theory, they could provide higher current at lower output voltages. The magnetic flux is proportional to current times turns (of wire on the core.) A lower output voltage implies fewer turns. BUT, the rest of the transformer is not designed for that higher current. So it is a bad idea to try to pull more than the rated current. However, pulling that rated current at any output voltage up to the input voltage is fine.


You can get a pretty good idea how much power a variac (or any transformer) can handle by its weight and size. The 3 amp variable transformer I have on my bench weighs about 25 pounds. It is a 120V input so that is about 360 volt-amps. One that can handle 600 volt-amps will weight around twice as much (the relationship isn't linear, though.)


Why do I keep saying volt-amps instead of Watts? Watts are actual power. Volt-amps are apparent power. If there are capacitors or inductors in the circuit the current and voltage will be out of phase. That phase change means the current and voltage won't peak at the same time and therefore the actual amount of power used will be less than it "appears" by multiplying volts * amps. But the core and winding of the tranformer will still have to handle the apparent power, even though the actual power used is less. The actual power used is the apparent power times the cosine of the angular difference in phase.


I'm not familiar with the DEC power supplies, but it is almost certain they have capacitor input power supplies. That means a phase change. That means, then, that your input supply will need to provide more apparent power than actual power used. A rough approximation is to double the input from what the supply outputs, assuming reasonable efficient supplies. So if one of those DEC supplies provides, say, 5 volts at 10 amps, that is 50 watts output. I would start with a variac (or whatever) that can supply 100 volt-amps at the input voltage. So, for 20V input it would need 5 amps.


Will

From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 22:25:55 2021
From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 04:25:55 +0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkUCCzA6R=NStC6Nra6cgZyq3AOVBdoR2PS_feN3EZgBD6fgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > I have a variac rated at 2.5A. I am not quite sure whether that would be
> > sufficient to test the bricks individually. Otherwise, I guess one of these
> > would do the trick https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-
> > 250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer ?
>
> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer

Most Variacs do not provide isolation between the input and output,
that is they are variable _autotransformers_. So if you use one to
test a power brick, the latter is directly connected to the mains
supply. Connecting an earthed 'scope to any point in said power brick
will then blow fuses at least. Touching any point in the power brick
could give you a nasty shock.

The power bricks draw very little current with no load on the output
and 2.5A would be fine to power one up.

Most, if not all, of the  power bricks start by rectifying and
smoothing the AC input. As a result they will run off a DC input too.
You can test them using a bench supply,  normally do.

One final thing. Do not, (as I did when younger and even more foolish)
disable the over-current trip in a power brick. If the crowbar
operates, you will end up with transistors blown off the PCB.


-tony

From rdbrown0au at gmail.com  Thu Dec  9 00:50:43 2021
From: rdbrown0au at gmail.com (Rodney Brown)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:50:43 +1100
Subject: NI PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer boards on ebay
Message-ID: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_ssn=techparts2020&_nkw=%22PCI-GPIB%2B%22

NI National Instruments PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer PCI IEEE488.2 Interface Card 
(~USD140)

Ebay item #

284088568161 Copyright 1998???? 183619B-01
284088565868 Copyright 2001???? 183619C-01
284088570014 Copyright 2005 ASSY192125D-01

While a photo shows the Windows NI Analyzer software in use, the item 
doesn't mention it.

If NI will provide the analyzer software, these could be used to capture 
HP-IB traffic to characterize the attached devices, timings etc.

The HPDrive project mentions the analyzer cards as being supported

https://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/#hpdrive



From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de  Thu Dec  9 02:28:13 2021
From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 09:28:13 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7020757-47ec-a765-88a8-3a718fa2d498@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021, Monty McGraw wrote:
> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.

That's a plain standard current loop telex machine using CCITT2 code. The 
more modern electronic version of it is the T1000 (that was available as 
5-bit CCITT2 and 8-bit ASCII).

Christian

From nico at farumdata.dk  Thu Dec  9 04:00:03 2021
From: nico at farumdata.dk (nico de jong)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:00:03 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>

Dominique,
Well, that is in principle very easy.
You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 to 
50 BPS serial.? Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could also 
look at www.i-telex.net. This is a (primarily) german "band of 
brothers". They have set up an international of teleprinter users, so 
they can communicate through internet. Nice system, can recommend it.
If you have (or get) a special interest in teleprinters, I have the 
software for a teleprinter exchange, also interfacing to i-telex.net
In this way, you can have a complete telegraph office in your living 
room (more likely : a garage....)
73, Nico

On 2021-12-08 21:29, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
> The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only 
> works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send 
> text in this monster through a computer
> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
>
> Dominique
>
> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> No, it's 5 bit tape.? 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
>> bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
>> the punch (left side).
>>
>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember 
>> those appearing on punched tape.? The punched tape machines I have 
>> seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape 
>> operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era 
>> phototypesetters.? Those are upper/lower case.
>>
>> ????paul
>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
>>> is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
>>> except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
>>> tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>
>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
>>>> codes.
>>>>
>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
>>>> Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, 
>>>> the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other 
>>>> function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same 
>>>> model.
>>>>
>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
>>>> a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.? And also 
>>>> that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
>>>> than as non-printing fill.
>>>>
>>>> ????paul



From nico at farumdata.dk  Thu Dec  9 04:13:50 2021
From: nico at farumdata.dk (nico de jong)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:13:50 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>
References: <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <4F255708-F1D4-4A86-AEC7-349EAC083ECE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8bc54bf6-9d8f-f1db-6301-95f080435ef8@farumdata.dk>

 >Please note : all mecanial Siemens machines I've seen, use 40 mA. Not 
60 mA.
/Nico

On 2021-12-09 00:21, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
> Dominique,
> Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR
> Matc
>
>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send text in this monster through a computer
>> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
>>
>> Dominique
>>
>>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>> No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side).
>>>
>>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.
>>>
>>>     paul
>>>
>>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
>>>>>
>>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
>>>>>
>>>>>     paul



From dce at skynet.be  Thu Dec  9 04:14:58 2021
From: dce at skynet.be (Dominique Carlier)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:14:58 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
Message-ID: <574cd224-42bc-dbcf-7c1c-d0b73496629d@skynet.be>

Oh great ! But a little bit noisy to use like that ;)
Well, I'm interested by your software anyway !

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 11:00, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:
> Dominique,
> Well, that is in principle very easy.
> You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 
> to 50 BPS serial.? Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could 
> also look at www.i-telex.net. This is a (primarily) german "band of 
> brothers". They have set up an international of teleprinter users, so 
> they can communicate through internet. Nice system, can recommend it.
> If you have (or get) a special interest in teleprinters, I have the 
> software for a teleprinter exchange, also interfacing to i-telex.net
> In this way, you can have a complete telegraph office in your living 
> room (more likely : a garage....)
> 73, Nico
>
> On 2021-12-08 21:29, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
>> The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only 
>> works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send 
>> text in this monster through a computer
>> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
>>
>> Dominique
>>
>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>> No, it's 5 bit tape.? 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
>>> bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
>>> the punch (left side).
>>>
>>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember 
>>> those appearing on punched tape.? The punched tape machines I have 
>>> seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape 
>>> operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era 
>>> phototypesetters.? Those are upper/lower case.
>>>
>>> ????paul
>>>
>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
>>>> is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
>>>> except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
>>>> tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
>>>>> codes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
>>>>> Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, 
>>>>> the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other 
>>>>> function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same 
>>>>> model.
>>>>>
>>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
>>>>> a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.? And also 
>>>>> that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
>>>>> than as non-printing fill.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????paul
>
>

From nico at farumdata.dk  Thu Dec  9 04:21:10 2021
From: nico at farumdata.dk (nico de jong)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:21:10 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <574cd224-42bc-dbcf-7c1c-d0b73496629d@skynet.be>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
 <574cd224-42bc-dbcf-7c1c-d0b73496629d@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <fdc9c4bd-1234-1aba-1e75-5f275f2f13a5@farumdata.dk>

Hello Dominique
If you send me your e-mail address, I can start with sending you the 
user manual, so you can what the software does
This software has an interface to i-telex.net, so you can use it for 
international chats
It also has a lot of other functions, but it would take too long to list 
it all here
Regards
Nico (OZ1BMC), formerly PTT telegraph operator

On 2021-12-09 11:14, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
> Oh great ! But a little bit noisy to use like that ;)
> Well, I'm interested by your software anyway !
>
> Dominique
>
> On 9/12/2021 11:00, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:
>> Dominique,
>> Well, that is in principle very easy.
>> You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 
>> to 50 BPS serial.? Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could 
>> also look at www.i-telex.net. This is a (primarily) german "band of 
>> brothers". They have set up an international of teleprinter users, so 
>> they can communicate through internet. Nice system, can recommend it.
>> If you have (or get) a special interest in teleprinters, I have the 
>> software for a teleprinter exchange, also interfacing to i-telex.net
>> In this way, you can have a complete telegraph office in your living 
>> room (more likely : a garage....)
>> 73, Nico
>>
>> On 2021-12-08 21:29, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
>>> The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which 
>>> only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to 
>>> send text in this monster through a computer
>>> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
>>>
>>> Dominique
>>>
>>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>>> No, it's 5 bit tape.? 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
>>>> bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
>>>> the punch (left side).
>>>>
>>>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't 
>>>> remember those appearing on punched tape.? The punched tape 
>>>> machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from 
>>>> early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 
>>>> 1970s era phototypesetters.? Those are upper/lower case.
>>>>
>>>> ????paul
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
>>>>> is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
>>>>> except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
>>>>> tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
>>>>>> codes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on 
>>>>>> Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" 
>>>>>> symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the 
>>>>>> other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually 
>>>>>> the same model.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
>>>>>> a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.? And also 
>>>>>> that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
>>>>>> than as non-printing fill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ????paul
>>
>>


From dce at skynet.be  Thu Dec  9 04:26:24 2021
From: dce at skynet.be (Dominique Carlier)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:26:24 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <fdc9c4bd-1234-1aba-1e75-5f275f2f13a5@farumdata.dk>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
 <574cd224-42bc-dbcf-7c1c-d0b73496629d@skynet.be>
 <fdc9c4bd-1234-1aba-1e75-5f275f2f13a5@farumdata.dk>
Message-ID: <b70d05d4-b9f9-6965-b796-8c2fec302376@skynet.be>

dce at skynet.be

Thanks !

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 11:21, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:
> Hello Dominique
> If you send me your e-mail address, I can start with sending you the 
> user manual, so you can what the software does
> This software has an interface to i-telex.net, so you can use it for 
> international chats
> It also has a lot of other functions, but it would take too long to 
> list it all here
> Regards
> Nico (OZ1BMC), formerly PTT telegraph operator
>
> On 2021-12-09 11:14, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
>> Oh great ! But a little bit noisy to use like that ;)
>> Well, I'm interested by your software anyway !
>>
>> Dominique
>>
>> On 9/12/2021 11:00, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:
>>> Dominique,
>>> Well, that is in principle very easy.
>>> You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 
>>> to 50 BPS serial.? Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could 
>>> also look at www.i-telex.net. This is a (primarily) german "band of 
>>> brothers". They have set up an international of teleprinter users, 
>>> so they can communicate through internet. Nice system, can recommend 
>>> it.
>>> If you have (or get) a special interest in teleprinters, I have the 
>>> software for a teleprinter exchange, also interfacing to i-telex.net
>>> In this way, you can have a complete telegraph office in your living 
>>> room (more likely : a garage....)
>>> 73, Nico
>>>
>>> On 2021-12-08 21:29, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
>>>> The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which 
>>>> only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required 
>>>> to send text in this monster through a computer
>>>> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
>>>>
>>>> Dominique
>>>>
>>>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>>>> No, it's 5 bit tape.? 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 
>>>>> data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to 
>>>>> right on the punch (left side).
>>>>>
>>>>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't 
>>>>> remember those appearing on punched tape.? The punched tape 
>>>>> machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from 
>>>>> early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 
>>>>> 1970s era phototypesetters.? Those are upper/lower case.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????paul
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz <bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper 
>>>>>> tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character 
>>>>>> codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even 
>>>>>> their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>>>> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be 
>>>>>>> typesetting codes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on 
>>>>>>> Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" 
>>>>>>> symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of 
>>>>>>> the other function codes have different labels so it isn't 
>>>>>>> actually the same model.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
>>>>>>> a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.? And also 
>>>>>>> that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
>>>>>>> than as non-printing fill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ????paul
>>>
>>>
>

From nico at farumdata.dk  Thu Dec  9 04:35:25 2021
From: nico at farumdata.dk (nico de jong)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:35:25 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <b70d05d4-b9f9-6965-b796-8c2fec302376@skynet.be>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
 <574cd224-42bc-dbcf-7c1c-d0b73496629d@skynet.be>
 <fdc9c4bd-1234-1aba-1e75-5f275f2f13a5@farumdata.dk>
 <b70d05d4-b9f9-6965-b796-8c2fec302376@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <788a5f53-1c83-01c6-2b40-9968d9b04ce4@farumdata.dk>

On 2021-12-09 11:26, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 9/12/2021 11:00, nico de jong via cctalk wrote: 

Sent !


From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec  9 06:26:51 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:26:51 -0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <CAHkUCCzA6R=NStC6Nra6cgZyq3AOVBdoR2PS_feN3EZgBD6fgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <CAHkUCCzA6R=NStC6Nra6cgZyq3AOVBdoR2PS_feN3EZgBD6fgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b201d7ecf8$0c03f730$240be590$@ntlworld.com>

Hello Tony,

> The power bricks draw very little current with no load on the output and 2.5A
> would be fine to power one up.


Are you saying that I can test them with no load? I thought they would need some load?


> 
> Most, if not all, of the  power bricks start by rectifying and smoothing the AC
> input. As a result they will run off a DC input too.
> You can test them using a bench supply,  normally do.
> 
> One final thing. Do not, (as I did when younger and even more foolish)
> disable the over-current trip in a power brick. If the crowbar operates, you
> will end up with transistors blown off the PCB.
> 
> 
> -tony


From lists at glitchwrks.com  Thu Dec  9 07:37:12 2021
From: lists at glitchwrks.com (Jonathan Chapman)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 13:37:12 +0000
Subject: NI PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer boards on ebay
In-Reply-To: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
References: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MfjLNAvwn4f3Zl-fJF7hzFEdfmeWdALhbT1a582yh0dltbEHS05kANfFgYTpPcyudA6LcQP1G69dtfIzEFZZm4_T3EOEAmjwJXxm2QMQ6dE=@glitchwrks.com>

The NI GPIB-410 is also often available cheaply, it's basically the ISA version. I believe I saw the drivers for it on NI's FTP server when I was looking for the manual.

Thanks,
Jonathan

??????? Original Message ???????

On Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 01:50, Rodney Brown via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_ssn=techparts2020&_nkw="PCI-GPIB%2B"
>
> NI National Instruments PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer PCI IEEE488.2 Interface Card
>
> (~USD140)
>
> Ebay item #
>
> 284088568161 Copyright 1998 183619B-01
>
> 284088565868 Copyright 2001 183619C-01
>
> 284088570014 Copyright 2005 ASSY192125D-01
>
> While a photo shows the Windows NI Analyzer software in use, the item
>
> doesn't mention it.
>
> If NI will provide the analyzer software, these could be used to capture
>
> HP-IB traffic to characterize the attached devices, timings etc.
>
> The HPDrive project mentions the analyzer cards as being supported
>
> https://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/#hpdrive

From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  9 09:45:11 2021
From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:45:11 +0000
Subject: PDP-11/70 Boards
In-Reply-To: <00b201d7ecf8$0c03f730$240be590$@ntlworld.com>
References: <20211201175507.AC78818C073@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <28e17671-656e-88b6-19e2-656a223d6075@charter.net>
 <096c01d7e96a$bdcb6e30$39624a90$@ntlworld.com>
 <527080D1-66DD-43F5-84F3-3A00D927158D@fritzm.org>
 <099f01d7e9bb$c1111f80$43335e80$@ntlworld.com>
 <628cffb9-cba7-d69a-dc55-c77c4da01a9a@charter.net>
 <008301d7ec7e$b286c490$17944db0$@ntlworld.com>
 <CAHkUCCzA6R=NStC6Nra6cgZyq3AOVBdoR2PS_feN3EZgBD6fgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <00b201d7ecf8$0c03f730$240be590$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkUCCyiwunxz16bWkGWoBqJBKD7K28rXRKig-wK+aY8M+sTEg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 12:26 PM Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Tony,
>
> > The power bricks draw very little current with no load on the output and 2.5A
> > would be fine to power one up.
>
>
> Are you saying that I can test them with no load? I thought they would need some load?

I'm pretty sure I've run them with no load and they have been fine.
Note that the regulation is not that good, the voltage may be a little
high with no load, and if you tweak it down with the preset you'll
have to turn it up again when you run the PDP11 off said bricks.

Also note that they are switching regulators. As a result, 2.5A input
current at say 20V would give a good few amps (10A if they were 100%
efficient, more like 8A in practice I would guess) at the output.

-tony

From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Thu Dec  9 10:47:08 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Thu,  9 Dec 2021 11:47:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels
Message-ID: <20211209164708.E25AA18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>


    > From: Jay Jaeger

    > Also, if someone (else, presumably) does up a replica of the indicator
    > panel board (perhaps with the option to use LEDs, with some resistor
    > packs that could be bypassed for lamps


Two points.

First,there's the question 'are you trying to produce something that just
_looks_ alike, or do you want something that's electrically compatible (i.e.
can be swapped in in place of an original'?

If the latter, it might be going to take a little work; it might not be just
'wire up some LEDs and go'. If you look at the indicator panel prints (pg.
190 of the RF11 prints), the incoming lines are tied to the base of a
transistor; its emitter is tied to ground, and the light bulb is wired
between the collector and +6.5V. This means, I think (I'm basicaly a software
guy :-), that one turns the bulb on by putting a voltage on the input, which
turns the transistor on, and current flows through the bulb to ground. (If I
have that wrong, will someone please orrect me?)

Given that the way TTL works is that 'logic' outputs actually sink currect
when their output is '0' (i.e. current goes _in_ the 'output' pin), it might
take a little work to make the right thing happen. Although maybe not;
looking at the RK11-C prints, it seem to drive the indicator panel straight
from the output of normal gates. I _think_ what happens is that when a gate's
output is '1', the output's voltage floats high, and that's enough to turn on
the transistor (above) driving the bulb. (Ditto the request for correction!)

But the real issue with 'electrically compatible indicator panels' is the
wiring. In the originals, the flat cables that drive them are soldered directly
to the indicator panel board, and also to the paddle boards. So the _only_
standard interface location is the paddle boards.

I suppose one could put Berg headers on both the indicator panel board and
the paddle boards, and use a standard IDC cable betweenthe two...


Mention of the paddle board interface brings me to the second point: even if
one did produce electrically-compatible indicator panels - where are you
going to use them in a PDP-11 system? Not in the CPUs - those all had their
own front panels. The only PDP-11 devices which used indicator panels which I
know of were:

- the DX11 (I don't think anyone's got one of those)
- the RF11 (ditto - although Guy was discussing emulating one at one point)
- the RP11 (but the indicator panel is built into the controller rack there,
  so if one has an RP11, one already has the indicator panel)
- the RK11-C (and several people who have those already have indicator panels)

I agree, the indicator panels look cool - but where are you going to use one
in a historical PDP-11 system?

Sure, one could use either a electrically-compatible or
non-electrically-compatible indicator panel anywhere you want, plugging into
some non-historical hardware, but.. (The non-electrically-compatible
indicator panel Dave did for the QSIC is initially being used in something
which emulates an RK11 and/or RP11, so there's some rationale for it.)

	Noel

From glen.slick at gmail.com  Thu Dec  9 14:33:52 2021
From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:33:52 -0800
Subject: NI PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer boards on ebay
In-Reply-To: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
References: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM2UOwKRfZLQ0o+O7nbPG9pOst8MBX37O+SCmZYC4OHJEQ5aTg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 10:50 PM Rodney Brown via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> NI National Instruments PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer PCI IEEE488.2 Interface Card
>
> While a photo shows the Windows NI Analyzer software in use, the item
> doesn't mention it.
>
> If NI will provide the analyzer software, these could be used to capture
> HP-IB traffic to characterize the attached devices, timings etc.
>

Has anyone recently installed and used the NI GPIB Analyzer software?
Is that something that must be obtained and installed separately, or
is it included as an optional component of the standard NI-488.2
download and installation?

I suppose I could try downloading and installing the 1.19 GB current
21.0.0 version of the NI-488.2 software to take a look. The current
21.0.0 version of NI-VISA is another 1.11 GB download.

From guykd at optusnet.com.au  Thu Dec  9 16:23:15 2021
From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 09:23:15 +1100
Subject: NI PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer boards on ebay
In-Reply-To: <CAM2UOwKRfZLQ0o+O7nbPG9pOst8MBX37O+SCmZYC4OHJEQ5aTg@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
 <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20211210092315.01675e68@mail.optusnet.com.au>

About the software:
I bought a couple of that seller's cards; one each of 284088568161 & 284088570014.
Asked him about the software. Here's his reply.
========
Regarding your question about the Analyzer software, if I recall correctly it comes bundled in the "NI-488.2" software package. I believe the version in my screenshot in the eBay listing was v17.6 for Win7 SP1 x86, but it should still be fully supported in the newest v21.0 package for x86 or x64 systems.

https://www.ni.com/en-us/support/downloads/drivers/download.ni-488-2.html

LabVIEW version compatibility matrix:
https://www.ni.com/en-us/support/documentation/compatibility/17/ni-488-2-and-labview-version-compatibility.html
========

All new to me.
Now to hunt manuals for the cards.

Guy



At 12:33 PM 9/12/2021 -0800, you wrote:
>On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 10:50 PM Rodney Brown via cctalk
><cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> NI National Instruments PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer PCI IEEE488.2 Interface Card
>>
>> While a photo shows the Windows NI Analyzer software in use, the item
>> doesn't mention it.
>>
>> If NI will provide the analyzer software, these could be used to capture
>> HP-IB traffic to characterize the attached devices, timings etc.
>>
>
>Has anyone recently installed and used the NI GPIB Analyzer software?
>Is that something that must be obtained and installed separately, or
>is it included as an optional component of the standard NI-488.2
>download and installation?
>
>I suppose I could try downloading and installing the 1.19 GB current
>21.0.0 version of the NI-488.2 software to take a look. The current
>21.0.0 version of NI-VISA is another 1.11 GB download.
>

From cctalk at beyondthepale.ie  Thu Dec  9 15:20:24 2021
From: cctalk at beyondthepale.ie (Peter Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 21:20:24 +0000 (WET)
Subject: Overland T490 cartridge tape drive and autoloader
Message-ID: <01S75GYRU4TC8WWJXI@beyondthepale.ie>

Many years ago, a friend gave me an Overland T490 tape drive which has
some kind of autoloader attached which takes ten tapes.  I was told it
came out of a Tandem system.  The tapes are square cartridges similar
but different to a DEC TK50.  I can't find very much information about
the drive on the web but there are some hints that it might be compatible
with an IBM 3480.  It powers up nicely and the fan works and after a
short pause, a green LED illuminates.  There are only two buttons on
the front, "unload" and "format".

There are two DD50 connectors on the back.  One had a terminator plugged
into it labelled "SCSI differential".  The other had a ridiculously long
cable with DD50 plugs on it connected, lending further credence that
this is a differential (pre-LVD I expect) SCSI device.

I would like to get this drive working with my Alpha or VAX VMS systems
but I have never had any luck getting them to talk to it.  Recently,
I tried a using a DD50-HD68 cable I found somewhere to connect it to
a differential SCSI card in my Alphaserver 800 but I could not get VMS
to see the drive.  Not knowing what SCSI id the drive is likely to be
using makes it hard to know where to start looking for it.

There are no switches on the outside of the drive which could be used
to set the SCSI id so I opened it up to see if I could find any hints
inside.  I didn't see anything that looked like it could be used to
set the SCSI id inside either.  What I did find is that the interface
board had a connector labelled "SCSI differential" which had two short
lengths of ribbon cables plugged into it leading to the two DD50
connectors on the rear panel and another connector labelled
"SCSI single ended" with nothing attached.  There were also two ten way
jumper packs which were labelled "DI" and "SE" on each side.

So, not having any luck with differential so far, I tried moving the
two jumper packs from "DI" to "SE" and moving the ribbon cable to the
"SCSI single ended" socket.  I used a short, known good DD50-DD50 SCSI
cable to connect the drive to my VAX 4000-100A and replaced the
differential terminator with a known good single-ended terminator.
VMS didn't see the drive.  VMS has a utility called scsi_info which can
be used to send a SCSI inquiry command and read mode pages etc.  Trying it
against each unused SCSI id results in "device timeout" every time.  The
system disk is on the same SCSI bus before the tape drive and a SCSI
scanner can be connected after it on the bus.  Both devices work fine so
the SCSI bus cabling and termination is in good shape on both sides of
the tape drive.  I've tried moving the system disk SCSI id from 0 to 1,
changing the initiator SCSI id from 6 to 7 and replacing the scanner with
a terminator in case there is any sort of SCSI id conflict but scsi_info
still doesn't show up anything that could be the tape drive.

Does anyone have any information about this drive, particularly
whether it should behave like a standard SCSI tape drive and what
SCSI id and/or lun it is expected to use or if there is some trick
required to get it to start talking? Maybe it doesn't like SCSI
inquiry commands?

Extra bonus points awarded for details on how to control the autoloader.

Maybe I did some damage to it when I was trying to get it to work when
I first got it?

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

From steven at malikoff.com  Thu Dec  9 18:13:29 2021
From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 00:13:29 -0000
Subject: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels
In-Reply-To: <20211209164708.E25AA18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211209164708.E25AA18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <b1f048f675727dee3ab49987570d2318.squirrel@webmail04.register.com>

Noel said
> The only PDP-11 devices which used indicator panels which I know of were:
>
> - the DX11 (I don't think anyone's got one of those)
> - the RF11 (ditto - although Guy was discussing emulating one at one point)
> - the RP11 (but the indicator panel is built into the controller rack there,
> so if one has an RP11, one already has the indicator panel)
> - the RK11-C (and several people who have those already have indicator panels)

Was there ever an indicator panel for the RC11?
Just curious as I have a set of RC11 modules (M7219, M7220, M7221, M7222, M7224, M7225) I found with the FOX-2/10
(PDP-11/15). No backplane though. I've not found any docs for these, I suppose they're probably on bitsavers and
have overlooked them.

Another indicator panel but non-DEC was the Foxboro drum (that's their description of the fixed-head disk) unit
apparently using the DDC 6200 with their own proprietary DBI controller.

The drum indicator panel bezel is the same casting as the 11/15's (and 11/20) as seen on page 1 of this extract:
https://archive.org/details/drum_extract_from_FOXBORO_FOX2_Hardware_System_Overview_Jan1972

I have the complete Foxboro schematics for this controller including the panel with its 61 bulbs. It's on my to-do
scanning pile. From an old 2007 message I found, I think Guy S has one? There was also a small mention of it being
emulated in Section 4.4.15 of the Ersatz-11 manual.

I can't see any evidence that the RC11 controller had anything to do with the Fox unit, so I have no idea why they
had it. There was no trace of any fixed-head disk hardware with the 2/10 and I think it may have only been offered
with the upgraded FOX 2/30 system.

Steve.


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Thu Dec  9 19:49:41 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Thu,  9 Dec 2021 20:49:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
Message-ID: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Steven Malikoff

    > Was there ever an indicator panel for the RC11? .. I have a set of RC11
    > modules .. No backplane though. I've not found any docs for these, I suppose
    > they're probably on bitsavers and have overlooked them.

Looking at the manual and engineering drawings (at BitSavers, as you guessed), no lights.

I've added links to those to the CHWiki RC11 page:

  https://gunkies.org/wiki/RC11_disk_controller

The engineering drawings have the wirelist for the backplane, so it would be
possible to wire a new one. (I'm in the process of doing that for my KE11-A.)
Not sure it would be much use without an RS64 drive, though.

	Noel

From elson at pico-systems.com  Thu Dec  9 20:42:07 2021
From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 20:42:07 -0600
Subject: Overland T490 cartridge tape drive and autoloader
In-Reply-To: <01S75GYRU4TC8WWJXI@beyondthepale.ie>
References: <01S75GYRU4TC8WWJXI@beyondthepale.ie>
Message-ID: <880dc2c6-e83f-f543-ee1c-f9502a17c51a@pico-systems.com>

On 12/9/21 3:20 PM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:
> Many years ago, a friend gave me an Overland T490 tape drive which has
> some kind of autoloader attached which takes ten tapes.  I was told it
> came out of a Tandem system.  The tapes are square cartridges similar
> but different to a DEC TK50.  I can't find very much information about
> the drive on the web but there are some hints that it might be compatible
> with an IBM 3480.  It powers up nicely and the fan works and after a
> short pause, a green LED illuminates.  There are only two buttons on
> the front, "unload" and "format".

CDC made a Patriot drive that used 3480 cartridges, and had 
a SCSI interface.

They were serpentine drives.? The CDC division was "Laser 
Magnetic Storage Int'l"

Jon

From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  9 22:00:25 2021
From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 04:00:25 +0000
Subject: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels
In-Reply-To: <20211209164708.E25AA18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211209164708.E25AA18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHkUCCxVO6hoxWL3jAKWQxq9tdZx2yWEK=Xx-Q8=jsj=_twA5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:47 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> - the DX11 (I don't think anyone's got one of those)

Technically correct, I have _two_. But alas nothing to connect them to.

-tony

From cube1 at charter.net  Thu Dec  9 22:15:23 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 22:15:23 -0600
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
In-Reply-To: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>

On 12/9/2021 7:49 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
>      > From: Steven Malikoff
> 
>      > Was there ever an indicator panel for the RC11? .. I have a set of RC11
>      > modules .. No backplane though. I've not found any docs for these, I suppose
>      > they're probably on bitsavers and have overlooked them.
> 
> Looking at the manual and engineering drawings (at BitSavers, as you guessed), no lights.
> 
> I've added links to those to the CHWiki RC11 page:
> 
>    https://gunkies.org/wiki/RC11_disk_controller
> 
> The engineering drawings have the wirelist for the backplane, so it would be
> possible to wire a new one. (I'm in the process of doing that for my KE11-A.)
> Not sure it would be much use without an RS64 drive, though.
> 
> 	Noel
> 

One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough 
micro, ala the MFM emulator.

JRJ

From ggs at shiresoft.com  Thu Dec  9 23:06:35 2021
From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 21:06:35 -0800
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
In-Reply-To: <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
References: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
Message-ID: <7d672456-b650-0f7a-f156-f08e1e7a1223@shiresoft.com>


On 12/9/21 8:15 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:
>
> One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough 
> micro, ala the MFM emulator.
>
Why does everyone seem to want to emulate HW like this with a micro when 
a reasonable FPGA implementation with some external FRAM would do the job?

The SMD/ESDI emulator that I've been working on has to "brute force" the 
emulation because of BW concerns.? That is, it has to read the entire 
emulated disk image into DRAM because:

 1. You need at least a track's worth of buffering to send/receive the
    data though the data interface (serial)
 2. You don't have enough time to transfer tracks in/out of the track
    buffer to flash (or what ever) to meet the head switch times
 3. You don't have enough time to transfer whole cylinders in/out of the
    cylinder buffer to flash (or what ever) to have reasonable
    track-to-track seek times

So it will require a micro, but that's mainly to manage what's going 
in/out of the (large) DRAM back to flash (it reads the entire emulated 
disk image into DRAM during boot).? All of the actual commands and data 
movement across the interface are all done by an FPGA.

-- 
TTFN - Guy


From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de  Fri Dec 10 03:31:38 2021
From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:31:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
Message-ID: <ccd781b3-35e-2feb-b90-bfff45c0b339@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, nico de jong wrote:
> You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 to 50 
> BPS serial.? Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could also look at

There isn't such a converter thing ;-)
What you mean is a converter between current loop and V.28.
To be precise, RS232 defines connector type, voltages and signalling. The 
latter is identical for all telex/teletype machines. The baud rate is of 
no interest in these cases.

Christian

From nico at farumdata.dk  Fri Dec 10 03:35:06 2021
From: nico at farumdata.dk (nico de jong)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:35:06 +0100
Subject: Overland T490 cartridge tape drive and autoloader
In-Reply-To: <01S75GYRU4TC8WWJXI@beyondthepale.ie>
References: <01S75GYRU4TC8WWJXI@beyondthepale.ie>
Message-ID: <cc9dad21-4968-04e8-249e-07af49b88337@farumdata.dk>

Hello Peter
Yes, the drive is 3480 compatible.
I have only seen them as "normal" SCSI, but that is not the same as 
saying that differential versions do not exist.
I believe I have a manual somewhere, but can't look into it until mid 
next week
I'll get back to you if I find it
Nico

On 2021-12-09 22:20, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:
> Many years ago, a friend gave me an Overland T490 tape drive which has
> some kind of autoloader attached which takes ten tapes.  I was told it
> came out of a Tandem system.  The tapes are square cartridges similar
> but different to a DEC TK50.  I can't find very much information about
> the drive on the web but there are some hints that it might be compatible
> with an IBM 3480.  It powers up nicely and the fan works and after a
> short pause, a green LED illuminates.  There are only two buttons on
> the front, "unload" and "format".
>
> There are two DD50 connectors on the back.  One had a terminator plugged
> into it labelled "SCSI differential".  The other had a ridiculously long
> cable with DD50 plugs on it connected, lending further credence that
> this is a differential (pre-LVD I expect) SCSI device.
>
> I would like to get this drive working with my Alpha or VAX VMS systems
> but I have never had any luck getting them to talk to it.  Recently,
> I tried a using a DD50-HD68 cable I found somewhere to connect it to
> a differential SCSI card in my Alphaserver 800 but I could not get VMS
> to see the drive.  Not knowing what SCSI id the drive is likely to be
> using makes it hard to know where to start looking for it.
>
> There are no switches on the outside of the drive which could be used
> to set the SCSI id so I opened it up to see if I could find any hints
> inside.  I didn't see anything that looked like it could be used to
> set the SCSI id inside either.  What I did find is that the interface
> board had a connector labelled "SCSI differential" which had two short
> lengths of ribbon cables plugged into it leading to the two DD50
> connectors on the rear panel and another connector labelled
> "SCSI single ended" with nothing attached.  There were also two ten way
> jumper packs which were labelled "DI" and "SE" on each side.
>
> So, not having any luck with differential so far, I tried moving the
> two jumper packs from "DI" to "SE" and moving the ribbon cable to the
> "SCSI single ended" socket.  I used a short, known good DD50-DD50 SCSI
> cable to connect the drive to my VAX 4000-100A and replaced the
> differential terminator with a known good single-ended terminator.
> VMS didn't see the drive.  VMS has a utility called scsi_info which can
> be used to send a SCSI inquiry command and read mode pages etc.  Trying it
> against each unused SCSI id results in "device timeout" every time.  The
> system disk is on the same SCSI bus before the tape drive and a SCSI
> scanner can be connected after it on the bus.  Both devices work fine so
> the SCSI bus cabling and termination is in good shape on both sides of
> the tape drive.  I've tried moving the system disk SCSI id from 0 to 1,
> changing the initiator SCSI id from 6 to 7 and replacing the scanner with
> a terminator in case there is any sort of SCSI id conflict but scsi_info
> still doesn't show up anything that could be the tape drive.
>
> Does anyone have any information about this drive, particularly
> whether it should behave like a standard SCSI tape drive and what
> SCSI id and/or lun it is expected to use or if there is some trick
> required to get it to start talking? Maybe it doesn't like SCSI
> inquiry commands?
>
> Extra bonus points awarded for details on how to control the autoloader.
>
> Maybe I did some damage to it when I was trying to get it to work when
> I first got it?
>
> Regards,
> Peter Coghlan.



From nico at farumdata.dk  Fri Dec 10 03:37:55 2021
From: nico at farumdata.dk (nico de jong)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:37:55 +0100
Subject: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
In-Reply-To: <ccd781b3-35e-2feb-b90-bfff45c0b339@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
References: <mailman.1.1638986400.66331.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <CABfggkAwbVf=8Mdp83rbans_keWvjiVb8bUc5mNs3CPSM_Y09g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2c8eb820-e6ef-8112-8701-b1017f0fd78d@12bitsbest.com>
 <A68DEC4D-79EA-4EC8-B967-0D8AD0A9CDD3@comcast.net>
 <cbcb4d88-2d97-14fc-344a-267e1e58437e@12bitsbest.com>
 <6064DE37-CC91-4BB8-A6EC-71115CD6D5FA@comcast.net>
 <48a70d32-94f4-bd76-74c0-db94d97c1993@skynet.be>
 <79fad772-c6d7-2cc1-e823-574319f81a8d@farumdata.dk>
 <ccd781b3-35e-2feb-b90-bfff45c0b339@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
Message-ID: <3ef93c53-00ac-a471-bff2-46755362ea15@farumdata.dk>

On 2021-12-10 10:31, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, nico de jong wrote:
>> You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 
>> to 50 BPS serial.? Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could 
>> also look at
>
> There isn't such a converter thing ;-)
> What you mean is a converter between current loop and V.28.
> To be precise, RS232 defines connector type, voltages and signalling. 
> The latter is identical for all telex/teletype machines. The baud rate 
> is of no interest in these cases.
>
> Christian

Yes, you are right Sorry for using the wrong wording :-(

Nico.


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Fri Dec 10 07:37:07 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:37:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels
Message-ID: <20211210133707.BA33618C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Tony Duell

    > I have _two_. But alas nothing to connect them to.

Well, there are still a good flock of machines with IBM channels around, but
_you_ don't have one (I can't blame you :-). I wonder if any of the people
with IBM channel machines have any need to connect to an -11?

Speaking of extant dinosaurs, I wonder if any RF11's still exist?

	 Noel

From cube1 at charter.net  Fri Dec 10 08:21:11 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:21:11 -0600
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
In-Reply-To: <7d672456-b650-0f7a-f156-f08e1e7a1223@shiresoft.com>
References: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
 <7d672456-b650-0f7a-f156-f08e1e7a1223@shiresoft.com>
Message-ID: <ece148d5-46ca-6257-3966-c5437b26d152@charter.net>

On 12/9/2021 11:06 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
> 
> On 12/9/21 8:15 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough 
>> micro, ala the MFM emulator.
>>
> Why does everyone seem to want to emulate HW like this with a micro when 
> a reasonable FPGA implementation with some external FRAM would do the job?
> 

1)  Because not everyone has that kind of design experience and 
capability (I do, but that is beside the point).  In such a case, 
suggesting a FPGA might cause those readers to just skip it without 
further thought, whereas suggesting a micro is less likely to have that 
effect on someone who *does* have the design experience.

2)  Because the tooling on FPGAs is sometimes a pain and the parts 
themselves are always in flux, and the updated tools often don't support 
the older parts.  Over the last 20 years I have gone through at least 3 
different FPGA development boards and toolsets, where as my original 
Arduino is just as useful as ever.

3)  Because a highly flexible FPGA development board costs a lot more 
than a micro, and micros would be a lot cheaper on a stand-alone PCB 
than an FPGA part (or an FPGA through-hold carrier for those who are not 
up to doing something like an FPGA part on a PCB.)

4)  Because a micro form factor is smaller than an FPGA development board.

5)  For someone well versed in software but not as well versed in design 
(though enough that they could still do what you suggest), doing the 
software might only take a couple of days for something like a 64Kw disk 
(if it isn't too fast), and easier to debug/fix/enhance as well.

6)  Because it was just a *suggestion* that one might emulate the disk 
itself in hardware (see also point 1).

On the other hand, speed kills, and some disks are just too fast for a 
micro alone to do.

> The SMD/ESDI emulator that I've been working on has to "brute force" the 
> emulation because of BW concerns.? That is, it has to read the entire 
> emulated disk image into DRAM because:
> 
> 1. You need at least a track's worth of buffering to send/receive the
>  ?? data though the data interface (serial)
> 2. You don't have enough time to transfer tracks in/out of the track
>  ?? buffer to flash (or what ever) to meet the head switch times
> 3. You don't have enough time to transfer whole cylinders in/out of the
>  ?? cylinder buffer to flash (or what ever) to have reasonable
>  ?? track-to-track seek times
> 
> So it will require a micro, but that's mainly to manage what's going 
> in/out of the (large) DRAM back to flash (it reads the entire emulated 
> disk image into DRAM during boot).? All of the actual commands and data 
> movement across the interface are all done by an FPGA.
> 

Cool.  Would love an ESDI emulator for my Apollo DN3000 and SMD 
emulation for my VAXen and PDP-11/24.

From paulkoning at comcast.net  Fri Dec 10 08:57:24 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 09:57:24 -0500
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
In-Reply-To: <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
References: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
Message-ID: <5409020B-FFC7-487D-961B-A0A172D70520@comcast.net>



> On Dec 9, 2021, at 11:15 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> On 12/9/2021 7:49 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
>>     > From: Steven Malikoff
>>     > Was there ever an indicator panel for the RC11? .. I have a set of RC11
>>     > modules .. No backplane though. I've not found any docs for these, I suppose
>>     > they're probably on bitsavers and have overlooked them.
>> Looking at the manual and engineering drawings (at BitSavers, as you guessed), no lights.
>> I've added links to those to the CHWiki RC11 page:
>>   https://gunkies.org/wiki/RC11_disk_controller
>> The engineering drawings have the wirelist for the backplane, so it would be
>> possible to wire a new one. (I'm in the process of doing that for my KE11-A.)
>> Not sure it would be much use without an RS64 drive, though.
>> 	Noel
> 
> One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough micro, ala the MFM emulator.

Quite easily, I'm sure.  The RC11 runs at a word per 16 microseconds, a megabit per second.  The RF11 transfer rate is the same.  So either one could easily be emulated: a $4 Raspberry Pico is more than enough for the task (the BeagleBone of the MFM emulator would be massive overkill).

	paul


From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 10 10:11:51 2021
From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 16:11:51 +0000
Subject: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels
In-Reply-To: <20211210133707.BA33618C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211210133707.BA33618C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHkUCCyzJDGtc3SgMOdMppt-A7cutZs1pkKRLGmzntwfUUGp3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 1:37 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>     > From: Tony Duell
>
>     > I have _two_. But alas nothing to connect them to.
>
> Well, there are still a good flock of machines with IBM channels around, but
> _you_ don't have one (I can't blame you :-). I wonder if any of the people

Sorry, that's what I meant. I have nothing to control an IBM channel.

-tony

From ggs at shiresoft.com  Fri Dec 10 11:57:29 2021
From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 09:57:29 -0800
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
In-Reply-To: <ece148d5-46ca-6257-3966-c5437b26d152@charter.net>
References: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
 <7d672456-b650-0f7a-f156-f08e1e7a1223@shiresoft.com>
 <ece148d5-46ca-6257-3966-c5437b26d152@charter.net>
Message-ID: <0c280a74-1f76-82e0-5891-8b51976b0fcd@shiresoft.com>


On 12/10/21 6:21 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/9/2021 11:06 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> On 12/9/21 8:15 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>> One could perhaps emulate the RS64 data stream using a fast-enough 
>>> micro, ala the MFM emulator.
>>>
>> Why does everyone seem to want to emulate HW like this with a micro 
>> when a reasonable FPGA implementation with some external FRAM would 
>> do the job?
>>
>
> 1)? Because not everyone has that kind of design experience and 
> capability (I do, but that is beside the point).? In such a case, 
> suggesting a FPGA might cause those readers to just skip it without 
> further thought, whereas suggesting a micro is less likely to have 
> that effect on someone who *does* have the design experience.
>
> 2)? Because the tooling on FPGAs is sometimes a pain and the parts 
> themselves are always in flux, and the updated tools often don't 
> support the older parts.? Over the last 20 years I have gone through 
> at least 3 different FPGA development boards and toolsets, where as my 
> original Arduino is just as useful as ever.
>
> 3)? Because a highly flexible FPGA development board costs a lot more 
> than a micro, and micros would be a lot cheaper on a stand-alone PCB 
> than an FPGA part (or an FPGA through-hold carrier for those who are 
> not up to doing something like an FPGA part on a PCB.)
>
> 4)? Because a micro form factor is smaller than an FPGA development 
> board.
>
> 5)? For someone well versed in software but not as well versed in 
> design (though enough that they could still do what you suggest), 
> doing the software might only take a couple of days for something like 
> a 64Kw disk (if it isn't too fast), and easier to debug/fix/enhance as 
> well.
>
> 6)? Because it was just a *suggestion* that one might emulate the disk 
> itself in hardware (see also point 1).

All valid points.? My frustration has been where I see projects that use 
a RPi for something that a simple HW circuit/CPLD/FPGA could have done 
it simpler and more efficiently.

I've lost count of the FPGA boards that I have.? I also typically don't 
use eval boards for actual projects other than testing a few "flows".? 
Everything gets done with a custom board because I typically need other 
components and it gets too messy if I'm just using an "off the shelf" 
eval board (and more than likely the eval board doesn't have enough I/Os).

I should also note that the Beagle Bone MFM emulator isn't actually fast 
enough.? It works OK if you only have one drive but it's not fast enough 
to handle the drive select signal when you have more than one.

>
> On the other hand, speed kills, and some disks are just too fast for a 
> micro alone to do.
Project below.? ;-)
>
>> The SMD/ESDI emulator that I've been working on has to "brute force" 
>> the emulation because of BW concerns.? That is, it has to read the 
>> entire emulated disk image into DRAM because:
>>
>> 1. You need at least a track's worth of buffering to send/receive the
>> ??? data though the data interface (serial)
>> 2. You don't have enough time to transfer tracks in/out of the track
>> ??? buffer to flash (or what ever) to meet the head switch times
>> 3. You don't have enough time to transfer whole cylinders in/out of the
>> ??? cylinder buffer to flash (or what ever) to have reasonable
>> ??? track-to-track seek times
>>
>> So it will require a micro, but that's mainly to manage what's going 
>> in/out of the (large) DRAM back to flash (it reads the entire 
>> emulated disk image into DRAM during boot).? All of the actual 
>> commands and data movement across the interface are all done by an FPGA.
>>
>
> Cool.? Would love an ESDI emulator for my Apollo DN3000 and SMD 
> emulation for my VAXen and PDP-11/24.

Yes, it's on my project list...I have it mostly designed but other stuff 
has pushed in front of it.? The big issue is the SW (HW is fairly 
straightforward)..which is funny because I'm a system SW guy.? ;-)? I'm 
using a Xilinx Zynq FPGA mainly because I need:

  * A reasonably fast processor for handling the run-time management of
    buffers (one version has 4 ARM Cortex-A9 CPUs running at 1+GHz and
    the other has 4 ARM Cortex-A53 CPUs running at 1.5GHz).
  * Lots of DRAM (has to contain the entire emulated disk image).
    Smaller Zynq FPGA will support 1GB of DRAM and the larger one (at
    least the one that I'm using) supports 4GB of DRAM.
  * Lots of internal RAM (has to contain the maximum sized cylinder)
  * A *fast* connection between the DRAM and internal RAM (this
    determines the track-to-track latency).? Cylinders can be up to 1MB
    (32KB/track, 32heads per cylinder) so when seeking, up to 2MB (1MB
    in, 1MB out) has to be moved to/from DRAM.? I'm trying to keep the
    seek times < 10ms (ideally ~4ms) so that means my data rate has to
    be on the order of 200-500MB/s.

I'm doing this for my Symbolics machines (ESDI and SMD) and 11/70 (SMD).

-- 
TTFN - Guy


From paulkoning at comcast.net  Fri Dec 10 12:23:38 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:23:38 -0500
Subject: RC11 controller (Was: Reproduction DEC 144-lamp indicator panels)
In-Reply-To: <0c280a74-1f76-82e0-5891-8b51976b0fcd@shiresoft.com>
References: <20211210014941.4D26318C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <79970124-cdfa-9ae3-27e4-1b5d43e7ddf1@charter.net>
 <7d672456-b650-0f7a-f156-f08e1e7a1223@shiresoft.com>
 <ece148d5-46ca-6257-3966-c5437b26d152@charter.net>
 <0c280a74-1f76-82e0-5891-8b51976b0fcd@shiresoft.com>
Message-ID: <75B469FC-0C51-424F-AC46-E0F7DFD9E1D9@comcast.net>



> On Dec 10, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> All valid points.  My frustration has been where I see projects that use a RPi for something that a simple HW circuit/CPLD/FPGA could have done it simpler and more efficiently.
> 
> I've lost count of the FPGA boards that I have.  I also typically don't use eval boards for actual projects other than testing a few "flows".  Everything gets done with a custom board because I typically need other components and it gets too messy if I'm just using an "off the shelf" eval board (and more than likely the eval board doesn't have enough I/Os).

I've done some pretty large VHDL designs (though not structured in the most conventional manner).  It's definitely one option.  It's a good one for large designs, or ones with severe performance requirements.

FPGA (VHDL or Verilog) work requires learning not just a new language but a way of looking at design that's unfamiliar to software people.  It's interesting and rewarding but not a simple thing to do.  And even "simple CPLD" projects aren't necessarily simpler done that way, at least not for people like me.

To pick an example: I have a rudimentary software-defined radio I built around 1998 (using Harris SDR chips) which uses a Lattice CPLD to interface to an EPP mode parallel printer interface.  That's conceptually a simple task but it turned out to be surprisingly hairy.  At the time it was the best answer; if I were to attempt a similar project today I would most likely pick a Raspberry Pico to do the interfacing.

The Pico is in fact a good example to point to.  While a Pi is a full Linux system, a Pico is a deep-embedded device, tiny and dirt cheap even by Arduino standards.  I've seen low end FPGA boards but I don't know if you can beat $4 as the price tag.  And add to that the fact that FPGA development software often only runs on *gag* Windows, while embedded software boards such as RPico offer open IDE systems that run on real host operating systems.

> I should also note that the Beagle Bone MFM emulator isn't actually fast enough.  It works OK if you only have one drive but it's not fast enough to handle the drive select signal when you have more than one.

I haven't run into that, it's rather puzzing why that would be so given that MFM does one drive at a time.  In any case, the original comment was about RC11, which is massively slower than MFM disks.

	paul


From glen.slick at gmail.com  Fri Dec 10 20:30:41 2021
From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 18:30:41 -0800
Subject: NI PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer boards on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20211210092315.01675e68@mail.optusnet.com.au>
References: <fe308363-d3a8-b08c-f8ea-59449653269a@gmail.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20211210092315.01675e68@mail.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAM2UOw+nxG85jnBRJB9b7KeA+yVPBt2i6GWePDkfE8XYV42L7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 2:26 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> About the software:
> I bought a couple of that seller's cards; one each of 284088568161 & 284088570014.
> Asked him about the software. Here's his reply.
> ========
> Regarding your question about the Analyzer software, if I recall correctly it comes bundled in the "NI-488.2" software package. I believe the version in my screenshot in the eBay listing was v17.6 for Win7 SP1 x86, but it should still be fully supported in the newest v21.0 package for x86 or x64 systems.
>

I was curious enough that I also picked up a PCI-GPIB+, one of the
newer versions and apparently the current version, same version as
item 284088570014 instead of the earlier version as item 284088568161.
The two versions might be functionally equivalent, maybe it was just a
redesign for cost reduction and/or some components of the design
reaching end of production status.

When I receive the PCI-GPIB+ I'll have to see if I can get it up and
running with the analyzer software.

From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Sat Dec 11 12:21:25 2021
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:21:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait
Message-ID: <20211211182125.6B73B18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

This guy:

  https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=jariadkin-0&_sop=10

has a couple of PDP-8 boards for sale that at the moment are going _really_ cheap.

     Noel



From derschjo at gmail.com  Sat Dec 11 12:30:43 2021
From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:30:43 -0800
Subject: ISO: DEC PDP-8 Data Multiplexer (DM01, etc.)
Message-ID: <CADBZjLaOMYSonVTW+3_=_VFyMHsGwvPuJ_dbUW7rZ3XULBiEMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all --

Got the TC01 working the other night, after a couple weeks of debugging
(*).  I'd like to be able to have both it and the RF08 that I'm working on
connected to the 8/I and running at the same time, so I'm looking for a
DM01 Data Multiplexer.  If anyone has any leads, do let me know.

Thanks as always,
- Josh

(*) Total TC01 fault count (so far):
- Bad transistor in TU55 motor brake control (W040)
- Bad jumper solder joints in TU55 (W990)
- Timing of UTS and U+M one-shots (R303) way out of adjustment (U+M
one-shot was at 2 seconds or so...)
- Bad tape data relay (G851)
- Bad IOT decoder transistor (W103)
- Missing Diode (W113) and weak diode in Write enable selection logic
- Timing of write clock way, way out of adjustment (90Khz vs. 125Khz
expected.)
- 24 dead maintenance panel bulbs
- 2 dead TU55 bulbs (yet to be replaced)

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Sat Dec 11 15:31:45 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 16:31:45 -0500
Subject: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait
In-Reply-To: <20211211182125.6B73B18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20211211182125.6B73B18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <CAALmimkQcWu67RQZknQuy11akoCPOihoDtAeOOPuQX9vzHjitw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 1:21 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> This guy:
>
>   https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=jariadkin-0&_sop=10
>
> has a couple of PDP-8 boards for sale that at the moment are going _really_ cheap.

Tap handles and DEC boards?  Odd mix.

I took a risk and bid.  I have an -8/e and -8/m to fix.

Thanks!

-ethan

From mbbrutman at brutman.com  Sat Dec 11 22:00:57 2021
From: mbbrutman at brutman.com (Michael Brutman)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 20:00:57 -0800
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
Message-ID: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm using debug logs to try to debug flow control issues when using mTCP
and a packet driver that presents itself as Ethernet but actually uses
ARCNET.  I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet in
the house.  Especially since I might just modify mTCP to work with Arcnet
packet drivers and cards directly.

Before I get too serious with eBay, does anybody want to rehome some Arcnet
hardware?


-Mike

From couryhouse at aol.com  Sat Dec 11 22:19:06 2021
From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 04:19:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1961633108.407863.1639282746182@mail.yahoo.com>

I remember? you? could? get? arcnet? ?for? HP? 150? also? ?Ed#?

In a message dated 12/11/2021 9:01:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:?
I'm using debug logs to try to debug flow control issues when using mTCPand a packet driver that presents itself as Ethernet but actually usesARCNET.? I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet inthe house.? Especially since I might just modify mTCP to work with Arcnetpacket drivers and cards directly.?Before I get too serious with eBay, does anybody want to rehome some Arcnethardware???-Mike

From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net  Sun Dec 12 12:06:15 2021
From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 11:06:15 -0700
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <248593d3-9977-e6f0-6a1d-e579d4760f90@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 12/12/21 3:05 AM, devin davison via cctalk wrote:
> Greetings,

Hi Devin,

> I had quite a few arcnet cards laying around a while back, I had picked up
> a ton of them from the back storage of a datacenter that was clearing out
> surplus equipment. I am uncertain of how many I still have in storage. How
> many do you need?

I'd like to raise my hand as interested in some ARCNET cards.  In a 
secondary capacity, after Michael gets his fill.

> If you are able to wait a couple days, I can check how many I have
> remaining in storage, and I can ship them to you once found.

I can easily wait.  I've been occasionally looking for ARCNET cards over 
the years as I'd like to play with ARCNET for edutainment purposes.  I 
have no /need/ for them, only a moderate /desire/.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

From lyokoboy0 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 12 04:05:28 2021
From: lyokoboy0 at gmail.com (devin davison)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 05:05:28 -0500
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I had quite a few arcnet cards laying around a while back, I had picked up
a ton of them from the back storage of a datacenter that was clearing out
surplus equipment. I am uncertain of how many I still have in storage. How
many do you need?
If you are able to wait a couple days, I can check how many I have
remaining in storage, and I can ship them to you once found.

--Devin D.

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 11:01 PM Michael Brutman via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I'm using debug logs to try to debug flow control issues when using mTCP
> and a packet driver that presents itself as Ethernet but actually uses
> ARCNET.  I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet in
> the house.  Especially since I might just modify mTCP to work with Arcnet
> packet drivers and cards directly.
>
> Before I get too serious with eBay, does anybody want to rehome some Arcnet
> hardware?
>
>
> -Mike
>

From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Sun Dec 12 13:08:03 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 11:08:03 -0800
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>

I just unpacked the rack with my TU56 DECtape drive and discovered that
the movers managed to break the takeup reels.  This, despite many layers
of foam padding, stretch film, and warning signs.  On the other hand,
this was the only item that suffered any damage at all.  Not too bad for
three moving van loads!

Can anyone help me with an empty DECtape reel or two?

Thanks,
Alan Frisbie

From new_castle_j at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 12 15:27:03 2021
From: new_castle_j at yahoo.com (Jonathan Haddox)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 21:27:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>

 I'll be following your progress with interest, I just installed Coax into the walls of my computer playhouse so I can ARCNet with my S-100 system. I have an ARCNet packet sniffer that can be loaned out if you would find it helpful.

- Jonathan
     On Sunday, December 12, 2021, 11:00:03 AM MST, <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> wrote:  
 
 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
??? cctalk at classiccmp.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? cctalk-request at classiccmp.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."


Today's Topics:

? 1. Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait (Noel Chiappa)
? 2. ISO: DEC PDP-8 Data Multiplexer (DM01, etc.) (Josh Dersch)
? 3. Re: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait (Ethan Dicks)
? 4. Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
? ? ? (Michael Brutman)
? 5. Re: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards (ED SHARPE)
? 6. Re: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
? ? ? (devin davison)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:21:25 -0500 (EST)
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait
Message-ID: <20211211182125.6B73B18C077 at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

This guy:

? https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=jariadkin-0&_sop=10

has a couple of PDP-8 boards for sale that at the moment are going _really_ cheap.

? ? Noel




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:30:43 -0800
From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
??? <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: ISO: DEC PDP-8 Data Multiplexer (DM01, etc.)
Message-ID:
??? <CADBZjLaOMYSonVTW+3_=_VFyMHsGwvPuJ_dbUW7rZ3XULBiEMQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hey all --

Got the TC01 working the other night, after a couple weeks of debugging
(*).? I'd like to be able to have both it and the RF08 that I'm working on
connected to the 8/I and running at the same time, so I'm looking for a
DM01 Data Multiplexer.? If anyone has any leads, do let me know.

Thanks as always,
- Josh

(*) Total TC01 fault count (so far):
- Bad transistor in TU55 motor brake control (W040)
- Bad jumper solder joints in TU55 (W990)
- Timing of UTS and U+M one-shots (R303) way out of adjustment (U+M
one-shot was at 2 seconds or so...)
- Bad tape data relay (G851)
- Bad IOT decoder transistor (W103)
- Missing Diode (W113) and weak diode in Write enable selection logic
- Timing of write clock way, way out of adjustment (90Khz vs. 125Khz
expected.)
- 24 dead maintenance panel bulbs
- 2 dead TU55 bulbs (yet to be replaced)


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 16:31:45 -0500
From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
To: Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>,? "General Discussion:
??? On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait
Message-ID:
??? <CAALmimkQcWu67RQZknQuy11akoCPOihoDtAeOOPuQX9vzHjitw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 1:21 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> This guy:
>
>? https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=jariadkin-0&_sop=10
>
> has a couple of PDP-8 boards for sale that at the moment are going _really_ cheap.

Tap handles and DEC boards?? Odd mix.

I took a risk and bid.? I have an -8/e and -8/m to fix.

Thanks!

-ethan


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 20:00:57 -0800
From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman at brutman.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
??? <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
Message-ID:
??? <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I'm using debug logs to try to debug flow control issues when using mTCP
and a packet driver that presents itself as Ethernet but actually uses
ARCNET.? I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet in
the house.? Especially since I might just modify mTCP to work with Arcnet
packet drivers and cards directly.

Before I get too serious with eBay, does anybody want to rehome some Arcnet
hardware?


-Mike


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 04:19:06 +0000 (UTC)
From: ED SHARPE <couryhouse at aol.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org, cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
Message-ID: <1961633108.407863.1639282746182 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I remember? you? could? get? arcnet? ?for? HP? 150? also? ?Ed#?

In a message dated 12/11/2021 9:01:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:?
I'm using debug logs to try to debug flow control issues when using mTCPand a packet driver that presents itself as Ethernet but actually usesARCNET.? I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet inthe house.? Especially since I might just modify mTCP to work with Arcnetpacket drivers and cards directly.?Before I get too serious with eBay, does anybody want to rehome some Arcnethardware???-Mike


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 05:05:28 -0500
From: devin davison <lyokoboy0 at gmail.com>
To: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman at brutman.com>,? "General Discussion:
??? On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
Message-ID:
??? <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Greetings,

I had quite a few arcnet cards laying around a while back, I had picked up
a ton of them from the back storage of a datacenter that was clearing out
surplus equipment. I am uncertain of how many I still have in storage. How
many do you need?
If you are able to wait a couple days, I can check how many I have
remaining in storage, and I can ship them to you once found.

--Devin D.

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 11:01 PM Michael Brutman via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I'm using debug logs to try to debug flow control issues when using mTCP
> and a packet driver that presents itself as Ethernet but actually uses
> ARCNET.? I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet in
> the house.? Especially since I might just modify mTCP to work with Arcnet
> packet drivers and cards directly.
>
> Before I get too serious with eBay, does anybody want to rehome some Arcnet
> hardware?
>
>
> -Mike
>


End of cctalk Digest, Vol 87, Issue 12
**************************************
  

From lists at glitchwrks.com  Sun Dec 12 15:59:22 2021
From: lists at glitchwrks.com (Jonathan Chapman)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 21:59:22 +0000
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <248593d3-9977-e6f0-6a1d-e579d4760f90@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <248593d3-9977-e6f0-6a1d-e579d4760f90@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <WRLwgKjlINQyLqBfx9A5rBJzV8vJ9cx9yHlLMDnX-Gw0fpH81CJglzy-z5TZJnTbiPe_waIRnzftn9ZV1Z3tM0WuKi1LEKMjtv0NJLLb4YA=@glitchwrks.com>

Mike,

I have some Pure Data PDI508+ ARCnet cards kicking around. I used them to develop the repair board for the funky DS1292 "Eliminator" (nonvolatile, battery-backed *shift* *register*) that they use.

All,

If you should happen to have Pure Data PDI508+ cards, we have rebuilds for the Dallas DS1292 they use -- the rebuilds aren't online yet as we haven't bothered to put them into production (this and some versions of the AST RAMpAT! use them).

Thanks,
Jonathan

??????? Original Message ???????

On Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 13:06, Grant Taylor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 12/12/21 3:05 AM, devin davison via cctalk wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
>
> Hi Devin,
>
> > I had quite a few arcnet cards laying around a while back, I had picked up
> >
> > a ton of them from the back storage of a datacenter that was clearing out
> >
> > surplus equipment. I am uncertain of how many I still have in storage. How
> >
> > many do you need?
>
> I'd like to raise my hand as interested in some ARCNET cards. In a
>
> secondary capacity, after Michael gets his fill.
>
> > If you are able to wait a couple days, I can check how many I have
> >
> > remaining in storage, and I can ship them to you once found.
>
> I can easily wait. I've been occasionally looking for ARCNET cards over
>
> the years as I'd like to play with ARCNET for edutainment purposes. I
>
> have no /need/ for them, only a moderate /desire/.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Grant. . . .
>
> unix || die

From couryhouse at aol.com  Sun Dec 12 16:17:50 2021
From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 22:17:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wanted : HP-150 AND...IBM PC and hp150  compatible 8 or 16 bit
 Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <WRLwgKjlINQyLqBfx9A5rBJzV8vJ9cx9yHlLMDnX-Gw0fpH81CJglzy-z5TZJnTbiPe_waIRnzftn9ZV1Z3tM0WuKi1LEKMjtv0NJLLb4YA=@glitchwrks.com>
References: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <248593d3-9977-e6f0-6a1d-e579d4760f90@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <WRLwgKjlINQyLqBfx9A5rBJzV8vJ9cx9yHlLMDnX-Gw0fpH81CJglzy-z5TZJnTbiPe_waIRnzftn9ZV1Z3tM0WuKi1LEKMjtv0NJLLb4YA=@glitchwrks.com>
Message-ID: <2003992430.696274.1639347470044@mail.yahoo.com>

Ok hearing all this? it makes me want to make HP-150 and a IBM-PC talk together!? Does anyone remmber? if hp-150 had? regular like we yse today network cards or... if they only had ARCNET cards?
Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 2:59 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:   Mike,

I have some Pure Data PDI508+ ARCnet cards kicking around. I used them to develop the repair board for the funky DS1292 "Eliminator" (nonvolatile, battery-backed *shift* *register*) that they use.

All,

If you should happen to have Pure Data PDI508+ cards, we have rebuilds for the Dallas DS1292 they use -- the rebuilds aren't online yet as we haven't bothered to put them into production (this and some versions of the AST RAMpAT! use them).

Thanks,
Jonathan

??????? Original Message ???????

On Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 13:06, Grant Taylor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 12/12/21 3:05 AM, devin davison via cctalk wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
>
> Hi Devin,
>
> > I had quite a few arcnet cards laying around a while back, I had picked up
> >
> > a ton of them from the back storage of a datacenter that was clearing out
> >
> > surplus equipment. I am uncertain of how many I still have in storage. How
> >
> > many do you need?
>
> I'd like to raise my hand as interested in some ARCNET cards. In a
>
> secondary capacity, after Michael gets his fill.
>
> > If you are able to wait a couple days, I can check how many I have
> >
> > remaining in storage, and I can ship them to you once found.
>
> I can easily wait. I've been occasionally looking for ARCNET cards over
>
> the years as I'd like to play with ARCNET for edutainment purposes. I
>
> have no /need/ for them, only a moderate /desire/.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Grant. . . .
>
> unix || die
  

From couryhouse at aol.com  Sun Dec 12 16:24:04 2021
From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 22:24:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wanted : HP-150 AND...IBM PC and hp150  compatible 8 or 16 bit
 Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <2003992430.696274.1639347470044@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+bZ4SBQWkvsqM79EUc8QNmEZFKjgEyvp5x69_y5=vs8rAt5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOpB=UMtSmRP8udanC31qUArs8V=djHg5bF9yWF-ZuvAW=yC1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <248593d3-9977-e6f0-6a1d-e579d4760f90@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <WRLwgKjlINQyLqBfx9A5rBJzV8vJ9cx9yHlLMDnX-Gw0fpH81CJglzy-z5TZJnTbiPe_waIRnzftn9ZV1Z3tM0WuKi1LEKMjtv0NJLLb4YA=@glitchwrks.com>
 <2003992430.696274.1639347470044@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1178523958.699361.1639347844983@mail.yahoo.com>

I would also need card for PC also as well as the needed cRds for HP-150.....NOW IF THE HP HAD REGULAR NETWORK STYLE CARDS? that I could use In 150 that would be great...? I just do not remember if they were available. Thx. Ed#

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 3:17 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:   Ok hearing all this? it makes me want to make HP-150 and a IBM-PC talk together!? Does anyone remmber? if hp-150 had? regular like we yse today network cards or... if they only had ARCNET cards?
Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
? On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 2:59 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:? Mike,

I have some Pure Data PDI508+ ARCnet cards kicking around. I used them to develop the repair board for the funky DS1292 "Eliminator" (nonvolatile, battery-backed *shift* *register*) that they use.

All,

If you should happen to have Pure Data PDI508+ cards, we have rebuilds for the Dallas DS1292 they use -- the rebuilds aren't online yet as we haven't bothered to put them into production (this and some versions of the AST RAMpAT! use them).

Thanks,
Jonathan

??????? Original Message ???????

On Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 13:06, Grant Taylor via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 12/12/21 3:05 AM, devin davison via cctalk wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
>
> Hi Devin,
>
> > I had quite a few arcnet cards laying around a while back, I had picked up
> >
> > a ton of them from the back storage of a datacenter that was clearing out
> >
> > surplus equipment. I am uncertain of how many I still have in storage. How
> >
> > many do you need?
>
> I'd like to raise my hand as interested in some ARCNET cards. In a
>
> secondary capacity, after Michael gets his fill.
>
> > If you are able to wait a couple days, I can check how many I have
> >
> > remaining in storage, and I can ship them to you once found.
>
> I can easily wait. I've been occasionally looking for ARCNET cards over
>
> the years as I'd like to play with ARCNET for edutainment purposes. I
>
> have no /need/ for them, only a moderate /desire/.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Grant. . . .
>
> unix || die
? 
  

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Sun Dec 12 23:25:05 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 00:25:05 -0500
Subject: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimkQcWu67RQZknQuy11akoCPOihoDtAeOOPuQX9vzHjitw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211211182125.6B73B18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <CAALmimkQcWu67RQZknQuy11akoCPOihoDtAeOOPuQX9vzHjitw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAALmimmpvppqSdH59jkC_zNA0Y2FNNuPv7WZdrDN+TABivgG5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 4:31 PM Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 1:21 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> >   https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=jariadkin-0&_sop=10
> >
> > has a couple of PDP-8 boards for sale that at the moment are going _really_ cheap.

They went for $80-$100 each, not surprising really.  Whoever the early
bidder was came back at the end with a much higher bid.

-ethan

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Sun Dec 12 23:28:22 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 00:28:22 -0500
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 4:27 PM Jonathan Haddox via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>  I'll be following your progress with interest, I just installed Coax into the walls of my computer playhouse so I can ARCNet with my S-100 system. I have an ARCNet packet sniffer that can be loaned out if you would find it helpful.
>
> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 20:00:57 -0800
> From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman at brutman.com>
>
> ... I've gotten to the point where I just want to have an Arcnet in
> the house.

I haven't used ARCnet since we used to use it for 4-player Doom
(especially since not everyone in the gaming group had Ethernet at
home yet and it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub.

-ethan

From rice43 at btinternet.com  Mon Dec 13 05:24:19 2021
From: rice43 at btinternet.com (Joshua Rice)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 11:24:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Cheap PDP-8 boards on eBait
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimmpvppqSdH59jkC_zNA0Y2FNNuPv7WZdrDN+TABivgG5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211211182125.6B73B18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
 <CAALmimkQcWu67RQZknQuy11akoCPOihoDtAeOOPuQX9vzHjitw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAALmimmpvppqSdH59jkC_zNA0Y2FNNuPv7WZdrDN+TABivgG5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <691d79ba.7f9bc.17db3894b5b.Webtop.100@btinternet.com>


Looks like the seller has also listed a Lisa CPU board. I imagine that 
will be of interest to many here

From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu  Mon Dec 13 10:16:21 2021
From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:16:21 +0000
Subject: Content of www.blacksheepnetworks.com
Message-ID: <20211213161621.524ace428958ef588cdb26f0@rtfm.hu>

Hello,

This site used to have a lot of very useful and rare information on
Tru64 troubleshooting and Google still has the links to the articles
but the content itself is inaccessible:

http://www.blacksheepnetworks.com/security/resources/tru64/

Has anyone by any chance archived the content of this site while
it was still alive? archive.org did not, unfortunately.

Thank you!

Kind regards,

Sab

From mazzinia at tin.it  Mon Dec 13 10:32:13 2021
From: mazzinia at tin.it (mazzinia at tin.it)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:32:13 +0100
Subject: Content of www.blacksheepnetworks.com
In-Reply-To: <20211213161621.524ace428958ef588cdb26f0@rtfm.hu>
References: <20211213161621.524ace428958ef588cdb26f0@rtfm.hu>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAFoAUgcoVQtJrnyBrO3Hmq8BAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABHpVOE6XxDT4r9hpIpjhIQAQAAAAA=@tin.it>

Actually seems that google cached part of the 5010 pages, so maybe 50% or
more can be still saved. Means the site is down since not too long

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Rumi Szabolcs via
cctalk
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 5:16 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Content of www.blacksheepnetworks.com

Hello,

This site used to have a lot of very useful and rare information on
Tru64 troubleshooting and Google still has the links to the articles but the
content itself is inaccessible:

http://www.blacksheepnetworks.com/security/resources/tru64/

Has anyone by any chance archived the content of this site while it was
still alive? archive.org did not, unfortunately.

Thank you!

Kind regards,

Sab


From couryhouse at aol.com  Mon Dec 13 03:14:40 2021
From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 09:14:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What is this massive binder of computer minutes1955 to 1964. I did
 cel phone or of text below we have
References: <92774886.417092.1639386880594.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <92774886.417092.1639386880594@mail.yahoo.com>

May be some errors In ocr..The Second Meeting of the Committee to Study Developments in Electronic Computing Machines and Their Application, September 22, 1955 The second meeting of the Committee was held on Sept ember 22, 1955, at 2 P.M. in the Board room at the Dominion Bureau of Statistics.Messrs. J.T. Marshall (Chairman);B.G. Ballard; H. Freedman; C.J. Gardner; R.W. James ; N. Keyfitz; J.A. Kidd; E.0. Landry; C. Scott; and R. Ziola (Secretary ) Present were: The Chairman pointed out that minutesof the first meeting of this Committee had been distribut ed to all membersand called for comments and correctionsS. were adopted 8s presented The minut es The Chairman referred to the Treasury Board letter T.B.486770 which gave approval to the setting up of this Committee and expressed appreciation to Messrs. E.0. Landry and D.. atters for their assistance in connection with the Committee's submission e rea.suryboard. During the sumer months officials representing three manufacturers of electronic eqipment met with members of the Commit tee to discuss some aspects of the equipment afactured. These included: 2. orfieials from Burroughs who explained the operating princ iples of the B.101 at a meeting held at the Dominion Bureau of Statistics on June 22, 1955. 2. Officials of .C.A. who explained the operating principles of BIZMAC at a eeting beld at the Jackson Building on July 7, 1955. S.0fficials from IEM ho presented a short movie on "Direct line to decisions ", dealing with the type 650 and 700 series of machinesat a meeting held at the C.h.?. Hess on August 12, 1955. n referring to letters received since the first meeting,the Chairman pointed u that since they dealt with same of the topics includedon the agenda it might be CaairabLeto considerthen when the se topics were under discus sion.?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

From couryhouse at aol.com  Mon Dec 13 03:18:02 2021
From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 09:18:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What is this massive binder of computer minutes1955 to 1964. I
 did cel phone or of text below we have
In-Reply-To: <92774886.417092.1639386880594@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <92774886.417092.1639386880594.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <92774886.417092.1639386880594@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <107671124.765198.1639387082202@mail.yahoo.com>

There is eeting one thru 80 something plus other study reports. Page one of minutes 1 has? bad spots so I ocr the header? off meeting 2

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 2:14 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:   May be some errors In ocr..The Second Meeting of the Committee to Study Developments in Electronic Computing Machines and Their Application, September 22, 1955 The second meeting of the Committee was held on Sept ember 22, 1955, at 2 P.M. in the Board room at the Dominion Bureau of Statistics.Messrs. J.T. Marshall (Chairman);B.G. Ballard; H. Freedman; C.J. Gardner; R.W. James ; N. Keyfitz; J.A. Kidd; E.0. Landry; C. Scott; and R. Ziola (Secretary ) Present were: The Chairman pointed out that minutesof the first meeting of this Committee had been distribut ed to all membersand called for comments and correctionsS. were adopted 8s presented The minut es The Chairman referred to the Treasury Board letter T.B.486770 which gave approval to the setting up of this Committee and expressed appreciation to Messrs. E.0. Landry and D.. atters for their assistance in connection with the Committee's submission e rea.suryboard. During the sumer months officials representing three manufacturers of electronic eqipment met with members of the Commit tee to discuss some aspects of the equipment afactured. These included: 2. orfieials from Burroughs who explained the operating princ iples of the B.101 at a meeting held at the Dominion Bureau of Statistics on June 22, 1955. 2. Officials of .C.A. who explained the operating principles of BIZMAC at a eeting beld at the Jackson Building on July 7, 1955. S.0fficials from IEM ho presented a short movie on "Direct line to decisions ", dealing with the type 650 and 700 series of machinesat a meeting held at the C.h.?. Hess on August 12, 1955. n referring to letters received since the first meeting,the Chairman pointed u that since they dealt with same of the topics includedon the agenda it might be CaairabLeto considerthen when the se topics were under discus sion.?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
  

From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net  Mon Dec 13 14:09:44 2021
From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 13:09:44 -0700
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 12/12/21 10:28 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> I haven't used ARCnet since we used to use it for 4-player Doom 
> (especially since not everyone in the gaming group had Ethernet at 
> home yet and it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub.

I find this statement interesting for a couple of different reasons:

1)  Paying Doom over ARCnet.  --  I don't think I realized that ARCnet 
was standardized enough that normal networking applications would work 
over it.  --  Naivety on my part.

2)  "it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub" ... I don't know 
how to respond to that with anything but curiosity and /many/ open ended 
questions.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Mon Dec 13 15:44:10 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:44:10 -0500
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <CAALmimkMAcDs_MXW333FimxwknEc5WzriiGCaiP4hr5wNJwcmA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 3:09 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 12/12/21 10:28 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> > I haven't used ARCnet since we used to use it for 4-player Doom
> > (especially since not everyone in the gaming group had Ethernet at
> > home yet and it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub.
>
> I find this statement interesting for a couple of different reasons:
>
> 1)  Paying Doom over ARCnet.  --  I don't think I realized that ARCnet
> was standardized enough that normal networking applications would work
> over it.  --  Naivety on my part.

The Doom application contained a network stack that would handle the
higher layers.  IIRC, you still had to load a packet driver shim, but
perhaps not.  It's been a loooong time since I've done it.

But you definitely could play up to 4 players when each machine had an
ARCnet card.  Ethernet cards worked too but they cost a lot more at
the time.

> 2)  "it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub" ... I don't know
> how to respond to that with anything but curiosity and /many/ open ended
> questions.

https://apenwarr.ca/arcnet/howto/cabling.html

You just take 4 BNCs and 4 resistors.  Tie all the grounds together
(can use a metal bar or wire or whatever) and connect one resistor to
each core and tie all 4 resistors together.

In other words, ARCnet supports a Star topology that Ethernet does
not.  It's a token-passing scheme, not CSMA (collision detection).

Cheers,

-ethan

>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Mon Dec 13 16:02:15 2021
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:02:15 -0600
Subject: Comparing IBM PC and IBM Displaywriter
Message-ID: <CAE1er558c2LcrgVPs2GkurJ7Tt_43YSF0cNRokmJP0CbifSBcw@mail.gmail.com>

https://youtu.be/zqsd2HU0ZuY

Just uploaded this video, thought some of you guys might enjoy :)

-Eric

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Mon Dec 13 16:06:13 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:06:13 -0600
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <bffce3e2-a0ef-0088-bfab-416c9140f2fd@12bitsbest.com>

For my kids and their friends I used to set up several (up to? like 5) 
bare motherboards first with lantastic 2MB cards and then NE2000 10mB 
compatible cards and play Doom over IPX back in the 90's.

On 12/13/2021 2:09 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/12/21 10:28 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
>> I haven't used ARCnet since we used to use it for 4-player Doom 
>> (especially since not everyone in the gaming group had Ethernet at 
>> home yet and it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub.
>
> I find this statement interesting for a couple of different reasons:
>
> 1)? Paying Doom over ARCnet.? --? I don't think I realized that ARCnet 
> was standardized enough that normal networking applications would work 
> over it.? --? Naivety on my part.
>
> 2)? "it was easy to make a passive 4-port ARCnet hub" ... I don't know 
> how to respond to that with anything but curiosity and /many/ open 
> ended questions.
>
>
>


From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Mon Dec 13 16:08:07 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:08:07 -0500
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <bffce3e2-a0ef-0088-bfab-416c9140f2fd@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <bffce3e2-a0ef-0088-bfab-416c9140f2fd@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <CAALmim=egrEpzqN=TKP16r=b+OUgVAhE0=xvEXmUcSOZ9H-8qw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 5:06 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> For my kids and their friends I used to set up several (up to  like 5)
> bare motherboards first with lantastic 2MB cards and then NE2000 10mB
> compatible cards and play Doom over IPX back in the 90's.

Yes.  Thank you.  IPX.  That was the network layer.

-ethan

From raywjewhurst at gmail.com  Mon Dec 13 16:19:38 2021
From: raywjewhurst at gmail.com (Ray Jewhurst)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 22:19:38 +0000
Subject: Comparing IBM PC and IBM Displaywriter
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er558c2LcrgVPs2GkurJ7Tt_43YSF0cNRokmJP0CbifSBcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE1er558c2LcrgVPs2GkurJ7Tt_43YSF0cNRokmJP0CbifSBcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB38323F79AB57DC1EDF7697A6A3749@CH2PR12MB3832.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Very enjoyable. I have heard the Displaywriter but one, I have not seen one in action and two I no idea that it could run MS-DOS or CP/M. Does anyone have any idea what the bios is like? I wonder if it could be emulated for preservation sake.

Ray

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Eric Moore via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 5:02:15 PM
To: Classic Computers <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Comparing IBM PC and IBM Displaywriter

https://youtu.be/zqsd2HU0ZuY

Just uploaded this video, thought some of you guys might enjoy :)

-Eric

From spectre at floodgap.com  Mon Dec 13 16:29:04 2021
From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 14:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <CAALmim=egrEpzqN=TKP16r=b+OUgVAhE0=xvEXmUcSOZ9H-8qw@mail.gmail.com> from
 Ethan Dicks via cctalk at "Dec 13, 21 05:08:07 pm"
Message-ID: <202112132229.1BDMT4SD26279976@floodgap.com>

> > For my kids and their friends I used to set up several (up to  like 5)
> > bare motherboards first with lantastic 2MB cards and then NE2000 10mB
> > compatible cards and play Doom over IPX back in the 90's.
> 
> Yes.  Thank you.  IPX.  That was the network layer.

Mac Doom even plays over AppleTalk. LocalTalk suffered a bit though.

-- 
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- LOAD"STANDARD DISCLAIMER",8,1 ----------------------------------------------

From ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com  Tue Dec 14 11:25:24 2021
From: ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com (Joerg Hoppe)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:25:24 +0100
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
Message-ID: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>

Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now 
published at
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/

The update to V4.1 is at
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-EF71A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.1_SRC_LST_MCRF_UPD/

Not sure who needs to know.
Perhaps they are useful for emulation crash analysis, or for educational 
purposes.
You also see the highly optimizing BLISS32 compiler at work.

regards,
Joerg




From emu at e-bbes.com  Tue Dec 14 14:19:43 2021
From: emu at e-bbes.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 15:19:43 -0500
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
References: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ba01dfc-b3f5-4bb6-7654-4258c4bdb66b@e-bbes.com>

On 2021-12-14 12:25, Joerg Hoppe via cctech wrote:
> Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now 
> published at
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/ 
> 
THANKS A LOT FOR DOING THIS !!!

> 
> Not sure who needs to know.
> Perhaps they are useful for emulation crash analysis, or for educational 
> purposes.
> You also see the highly optimizing BLISS32 compiler at work.

Spent already hours yesterday staring at the code ;-)

Thanks again, I guess you spent some time on that ...

From ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com  Tue Dec 14 14:33:13 2021
From: ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com (Joerg Hoppe)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 21:33:13 +0100
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <5ba01dfc-b3f5-4bb6-7654-4258c4bdb66b@e-bbes.com>
References: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
 <5ba01dfc-b3f5-4bb6-7654-4258c4bdb66b@e-bbes.com>
Message-ID: <04051d74-3a9a-6b04-7bd2-bc9194ec4053@gmail.com>

Hi Emanuel,
>
>> Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now 
>> published at
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/ 
>>
> THANKS A LOT FOR DOING THIS !!!
>
>>
>> Not sure who needs to know.
>> Perhaps they are useful for emulation crash analysis, or for 
>> educational purposes.
>> You also see the highly optimizing BLISS32 compiler at work.
>
> Spent already hours yesterday staring at the code ;-)

Me too!

Btw, the "Internals" documents in 
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/vms/training/
train you to understand these sources.

>
> Thanks again, I guess you spent some time on that ...

Oh yes, I did.

best regards,

Joerg



From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net  Tue Dec 14 19:00:27 2021
From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:00:27 -0700
Subject: Wanted: IBM PC compatible 8 or 16 bit Arcnet cards
In-Reply-To: <CAALmimkMAcDs_MXW333FimxwknEc5WzriiGCaiP4hr5wNJwcmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <1778368080.360661.1639344423780@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAALmimkauUCzAVQgSpSGWhJwL9RL7bgtyaDpq=ecL7OS4TzCxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce88903e-c686-50d8-b62a-79587b2ec309@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>
 <CAALmimkMAcDs_MXW333FimxwknEc5WzriiGCaiP4hr5wNJwcmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e695be0b-329a-d550-8f94-384a0a475deb@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>

On 12/13/21 2:44 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> The Doom application contained a network stack that would handle the 
> higher layers.  IIRC, you still had to load a packet driver shim, 
> but perhaps not.  It's been a loooong time since I've done it.

I know that Doom was an IPX capable network game.  It's more that I had 
mis-categorized ARCnet in my head as an atypical / non-standard network. 
  I now know that I was incorrect in that.

> But you definitely could play up to 4 players when each machine had 
> an ARCnet card.  Ethernet cards worked too but they cost a lot more 
> at the time.
> 
> https://apenwarr.ca/arcnet/howto/cabling.html
> 
> You just take 4 BNCs and 4 resistors.  Tie all the grounds together 
> (can use a metal bar or wire or whatever) and connect one resistor 
> to each core and tie all 4 resistors together.

Interesting.

Thank you for elaborating.

> In other words, ARCnet supports a Star topology that Ethernet does not. 
> It's a token-passing scheme, not CSMA (collision detection).

ACK



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

From paulkoning at comcast.net  Wed Dec 15 08:17:52 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 09:17:52 -0500
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
References: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03657634-76BE-4BDB-A1D3-BACDEACCDEBA@comcast.net>



> On Dec 14, 2021, at 12:25 PM, Joerg Hoppe via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now published at
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/

Did I miss it, or is the kernel missing?

	paul


From ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com  Wed Dec 15 09:19:56 2021
From: ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com (Joerg Hoppe)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 16:19:56 +0100
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <03657634-76BE-4BDB-A1D3-BACDEACCDEBA@comcast.net>
References: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
 <03657634-76BE-4BDB-A1D3-BACDEACCDEBA@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <085ea142-265c-d7b6-a8bf-66ebd60530d4@gmail.com>

Paul,
> Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now published at
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/
> Did I miss it, or is the kernel missing?

I learned from

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/vms/training/EY-00014-DP_VMS_Internals_and_Data_Structures_1984.pdf

that they don't have a "kernel",? but an "executive".? From the Preface 
chapter:

"The words "system" or "VMS system" are used to describe the entire 
software package that is a part of a VAX-11 system, including privileged 
processes, utilities, and other support software as well as the 
executive itself.
The word "executive" refers to those parts of the VMS operating system? 
that reside in system virtual address space.
The executive includes the contents of the file SYS.EXE, device drivers, 
and other code and data structures
loaded at initialization time, including RMS and the system message file. "

Joerg


From paulkoning at comcast.net  Wed Dec 15 09:27:31 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 10:27:31 -0500
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <085ea142-265c-d7b6-a8bf-66ebd60530d4@gmail.com>
References: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
 <03657634-76BE-4BDB-A1D3-BACDEACCDEBA@comcast.net>
 <085ea142-265c-d7b6-a8bf-66ebd60530d4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <257AE156-DC27-49BC-90A8-2DA1E96A20D9@comcast.net>



> On Dec 15, 2021, at 10:19 AM, Joerg Hoppe <ioerg.hoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul,
>> Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now published at
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/
>> Did I miss it, or is the kernel missing?
> 
> I learned from
> 
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/vms/training/EY-00014-DP_VMS_Internals_and_Data_Structures_1984.pdf
> 
> that they don't have a "kernel",  but an "executive".  From the Preface chapter:
> 
> "The words "system" or "VMS system" are used to describe the entire software package that is a part of a VAX-11 system, including privileged processes, utilities, and other support software as well as the executive itself.
> The word "executive" refers to those parts of the VMS operating system  that reside in system virtual address space.
> The executive includes the contents of the file SYS.EXE, device drivers, and other code and data structures
> loaded at initialization time, including RMS and the system message file. "

Fair enough, though "kernel" has a specific meaning, the stuff that runs in kernel mode (as opposed to executive mode, as RMS does).  

What I meant is "where is the core OS".  With the hints you gave I found the answer, it's in subdirectory 095__SYS.  Thanks!

	paul


From glg at grebus.com  Wed Dec 15 17:25:33 2021
From: glg at grebus.com (Gary Grebus)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 18:25:33 -0500
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
References: <a6ff62cc-7ebc-0e46-a7a7-1cbe6372953c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa0c2dca-063e-c033-d2e5-4a217ecca912@grebus.com>

On 12/14/21 12:25 PM, Joerg Hoppe wrote:
> Full micro fiche scans of VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source listings are now 
> published at
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/microfiche/vms-source-listings/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/AH-BT13A-SE__VAX-VMS_V4.0_SRC_LST_MCRF/ 
> 

Thanks for doing this!  It's great fun to look at these.  I spent many 
hours back in the day in front of the fiche reader... analyzing crash 
dumps and generally learning about how an operating system is really put 
together.

	Gary


From cube1 at charter.net  Fri Dec 17 08:01:36 2021
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 08:01:36 -0600
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
Message-ID: <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>

On 12/12/2021 1:08 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
> I just unpacked the rack with my TU56 DECtape drive and discovered that
> the movers managed to break the takeup reels.? This, despite many layers
> of foam padding, stretch film, and warning signs.? On the other hand,
> this was the only item that suffered any damage at all.? Not too bad for
> three moving van loads!
> 
> Can anyone help me with an empty DECtape reel or two?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan Frisbie

Were they left on the drive during shipping?

Anyway, I can probably find one lying around that I could spare.  (Or, 
if you have a bunch of tapes, maybe sacrifice a scratch?)

Location?

JRJ

From bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com  Fri Dec 17 08:44:29 2021
From: bitwiz at 12bitsbest.com (Mike Katz)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 08:44:29 -0600
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
 <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
Message-ID: <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>

I am also in need of emtpy reels.? I purchased a TU56 that had been 
taken apart to restore and the restoration had never been finished. The 
empty reels were not in the box of parts.

Has anyone tried 3D printing these?

On 12/17/2021 8:01 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/12/2021 1:08 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
>> I just unpacked the rack with my TU56 DECtape drive and discovered that
>> the movers managed to break the takeup reels.? This, despite many layers
>> of foam padding, stretch film, and warning signs.? On the other hand,
>> this was the only item that suffered any damage at all.? Not too bad for
>> three moving van loads!
>>
>> Can anyone help me with an empty DECtape reel or two?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alan Frisbie
>
> Were they left on the drive during shipping?
>
> Anyway, I can probably find one lying around that I could spare. (Or, 
> if you have a bunch of tapes, maybe sacrifice a scratch?)
>
> Location?
>
> JRJ


From paulkoning at comcast.net  Fri Dec 17 09:13:25 2021
From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:13:25 -0500
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
 <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
 <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <327F47A3-B998-4876-933C-A2E896AC1922@comcast.net>



> On Dec 17, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> I am also in need of emtpy reels.  I purchased a TU56 that had been taken apart to restore and the restoration had never been finished. The empty reels were not in the box of parts.
> 
> Has anyone tried 3D printing these?

Interesting idea.  A while ago someone posted a picture of what looks like a "go/no-go" gauge for DECtape reels.  It is marked with the dimensions of the two sides: 2.504-2.505 inches for the "no-go" end, 2.494-2.495 for the "go" end.  So that tells us the hole diameter is 2.500 +/- .004.  Can 3D printing deliver that sort of tolerance (with hobbyist-price machines)?

	paul



From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Fri Dec 17 10:23:40 2021
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 11:23:40 -0500
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <327F47A3-B998-4876-933C-A2E896AC1922@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
 <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
 <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
 <327F47A3-B998-4876-933C-A2E896AC1922@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAALmimkZuG3TjY5L1Kr0a0Z=ma_r53xRen4M4jAZL4GdcABhKA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 10:13 AM Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > Has anyone tried 3D printing these?
>
> Interesting idea.  A while ago someone posted a picture of what looks like a "go/no-go" gauge for DECtape reels.  It is marked with the dimensions of the two sides: 2.504-2.505 inches for the "no-go" end, 2.494-2.495 for the "go" end.  So that tells us the hole diameter is 2.500 +/- .004.  Can 3D printing deliver that sort of tolerance (with hobbyist-price machines)?

What you can do is print with extra shells (2 layers is one default,
depending on your slicer), then print using ABS, which will shrink
1-2% (so you often print at 100.1% and caliper for
dimensionally-critical items) _then_ since it's ABS, you can
vapor-smooth with acetone and remove ridges and improve top layer
bonding, *then* turn on a lathe to spec - but trying to remove less
than half a filament diameter.

I think that technique would work.  I wouldn't just print and go
unless I at least smoothed the tape path to prevent adding wrinkles.

-ethan

From henk.gooijen at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 17 10:39:11 2021
From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com (Henk Gooijen)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 16:39:11 +0000
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
 <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
 <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR06MB4208620B0DF9B609D94F483986789@VI1PR06MB4208.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

One of my future projects is building a 60% scaled TU56 to go with the PiDP11/70 ...
This might be of interest on  Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4635976

Henk, PA8PDP

Van: Mike Katz via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Verzonden: vrijdag 17 december 2021 15:44
Aan: Jay Jaeger<mailto:cube1 at charter.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: Re: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed

I am also in need of emtpy reels.  I purchased a TU56 that had been
taken apart to restore and the restoration had never been finished. The
empty reels were not in the box of parts.

Has anyone tried 3D printing these?

On 12/17/2021 8:01 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/12/2021 1:08 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
>> I just unpacked the rack with my TU56 DECtape drive and discovered that
>> the movers managed to break the takeup reels.  This, despite many layers
>> of foam padding, stretch film, and warning signs.  On the other hand,
>> this was the only item that suffered any damage at all.  Not too bad for
>> three moving van loads!
>>
>> Can anyone help me with an empty DECtape reel or two?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alan Frisbie
>
> Were they left on the drive during shipping?
>
> Anyway, I can probably find one lying around that I could spare. (Or,
> if you have a bunch of tapes, maybe sacrifice a scratch?)
>
> Location?
>
> JRJ


From van.snyder at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 17 13:31:57 2021
From: van.snyder at sbcglobal.net (Van Snyder)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 11:31:57 -0800
Subject: Two power supplies
References: <50b28cfbc2105b6b6cb6193b91b775a36b98569b.camel.ref@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <50b28cfbc2105b6b6cb6193b91b775a36b98569b.camel@sbcglobal.net>

I have two power supplies that I no longer need.

1. Power One model SPM5A2M6G1K: 115 VAC 30 A or 230 VAC 15 A 50-60 Hz
input, outputs 48 V 5 A, 5 V 10 A, 2 x 12 V 10 A, 5 V 150 A.
? ? 13" x 5" x 8 ", 17 lb

2. Lambda LM 124 FM lab supply: 115 VAC 50-60 Hz input, outputs 0-40 V,
0-1.5 A
? ? 17" x 4" x 5", 13 lb

Yours if you send me a PDF of a shipping label. I can send photos (but
they're too big to fit in classiccmp.org mailings).

Local pickup OK.

Van Snyder
La Crescenta, CA


From steven at malikoff.com  Fri Dec 17 20:21:54 2021
From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 12:21:54 +1000
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
 <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
 <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
Message-ID: <9eca160ca2d34a67fda79b882b14ceb3.squirrel@webmail04.register.com>

Mike said
> I am also in need of emtpy reels.? I purchased a TU56 that had been
> taken apart to restore and the restoration had never been finished. The
> empty reels were not in the box of parts.
>
> Has anyone tried 3D printing these?

I haven't tried printing a TU56 one as I don't have that peripheral, but have done
in OpenSCAD a paper tape spool where the sides twist-lock together.

If I had one, or measurements, I'd script it up.

Steve.


From sieler at allegro.com  Sat Dec 18 17:27:16 2021
From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 15:27:16 -0800
Subject: FS: HP 3000s (928LX) for sale in Texas
Message-ID: <CAKZvcPh3oN=W9YRQEGnNdtd27RZYaz54K4-E2q256mDJ5i+n7A@mail.gmail.com>

Since they're vintage...

A friend is selling two HP 3000/928LX computers.  I don't know what he
wants for them.  For people interested in the HP 3000, this would be a nice
buy.

Size-wise, they're between a PC and a 2-drawer file cabinet in size.
They'll be network capable (may require a transceiver, but likely comes
with, and they're generally about $10 otherwise).

The following describes one, but there are two...

----
  1. HPe3000 928LX.

  2. 128mb main memory.

  3. (2) 4gb internal disk drives.

  4. DDS-2 internal tape drive.(two in one system and one in the other)

  5. MPE/iX 7.5 Operating System with 8 user license.

  6. System Consoles with keyboards.

  7. SE SCSI Interface Card

  8. External Disk drive mini cabinet with SCSI drives

Bonus: Backup and systems DDS tapes, Manuals, extra 4gb SCSI disks, and
Misc. Documentation

Lots of software.

Both systems were operating when shut down recently. Buy as is with no
guarantee..

Make an offer. Buyer to arrange packing and shipping.

Location: At my home office in Carrollton, TX

Contact Paul Edwards, pedwards at gte.net

From leec2124 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 18 19:29:57 2021
From: leec2124 at gmail.com (Lee Courtney)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:29:57 -0800
Subject: HP 3000s (928LX) for sale in Texas
In-Reply-To: <CAKZvcPh3oN=W9YRQEGnNdtd27RZYaz54K4-E2q256mDJ5i+n7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKZvcPh3oN=W9YRQEGnNdtd27RZYaz54K4-E2q256mDJ5i+n7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG_uPVFsOfpR-1EqiHJP5T-GkgCYOV51nB1ea8nFCFc=m72f3g@mail.gmail.com>

Stan - this is a *nice* setup. Especially since (I believe) the 9x8 boxes
have a replaceable TOD/TOY clock battery, verses the 9x7 series which had
*hardwired non-replaceable* clock batteries.

Do you know what software they come with, any languages?

Lee Courtney

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 3:27 PM Stan Sieler via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Since they're vintage...
>
> A friend is selling two HP 3000/928LX computers.  I don't know what he
> wants for them.  For people interested in the HP 3000, this would be a nice
> buy.
>
> Size-wise, they're between a PC and a 2-drawer file cabinet in size.
> They'll be network capable (may require a transceiver, but likely comes
> with, and they're generally about $10 otherwise).
>
> The following describes one, but there are two...
>
> ----
>   1. HPe3000 928LX.
>
>   2. 128mb main memory.
>
>   3. (2) 4gb internal disk drives.
>
>   4. DDS-2 internal tape drive.(two in one system and one in the other)
>
>   5. MPE/iX 7.5 Operating System with 8 user license.
>
>   6. System Consoles with keyboards.
>
>   7. SE SCSI Interface Card
>
>   8. External Disk drive mini cabinet with SCSI drives
>
> Bonus: Backup and systems DDS tapes, Manuals, extra 4gb SCSI disks, and
> Misc. Documentation
>
> Lots of software.
>
> Both systems were operating when shut down recently. Buy as is with no
> guarantee..
>
> Make an offer. Buyer to arrange packing and shipping.
>
> Location: At my home office in Carrollton, TX
>
> Contact Paul Edwards, pedwards at gte.net
>


-- 
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell

From holm at freibergnet.de  Sun Dec 19 15:22:16 2021
From: holm at freibergnet.de (Holm Tiffe)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2021 22:22:16 +0100
Subject: SMC FD37C65B and revision C Errata sheets?
Message-ID: <Yb+iiA9u7XTceaoN@pegasus.freibergnet.de>

Hi all,

the german Engeneer Tillman Reh has build an Zilog Z280 SBC card with
Eurocard Bus connector:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/zilog/z280/index.html
The Software is open and Tillman allows the PCB to be reproduced from
his original Gerber files on request.

Unfortunately some parts for those cards are almost unobtanium in the
meantime, the Zigzag DRAMs, the COM8117 Uart, the LT1134 Driver chip
and also the SMC FD37C65CLJP FDC are difficult to source.
I have two such cards and I got all the necessary parts, but I have
friends that are also interested in such a card to run CP/M 3 or UZI280
on that Z280 (The Z800!) 16 Bit CPU.

There are many other FDCs that should be compatible, the WD37C65 for
example. This was used in many PC related Floppy controllers..but they
are in fact not compatible. The use of the SMC37C65CLJ P  seems to be
necesary for this board, for reasons that are unclear.

While copying data to the disc there happens a timeout on the earlier
FDC varaints, I have read somewhere that reading the status register
gives unexpected results, they have tried to fix this already in the
90ies by inserting some delays, w/o success.

Has someone here Errata Sheets for those SMC FD37C65B (not working) and
FDC37C65C (working) variants of that FDC Chip, so that one can see what
they may have changed between the releases?

Here are some part of the BIOS:

; I/O-Page mu~ bereits auf BOARDP gesetzt sein. Ver{ndert ABHL.

FdcCom::
    if loader
        ld      hl,CList
    else
        ld      hl,(CmdAdr)     ; Zeiger auf Befehlsliste
    endif
FdcCo1::in      a,(FdcSta)      ; (Einsprung mit Zeiger in HL)
        rla
        jr      nc,FdcCo1       ; warten bis FDC-RQM (Request for Master)
        rla
        jr      c,FdcErr        ; bei falscher Datenrichtung: DIO-Error
        nop
        nop
        nop
        ld      a,(hl)
        out     (FdcDat),a      ; Befehls/Datenbyte an FDC ausgeben
        inc     hl              ; Zeiger auf naechstes Byte
        djnz    FdcCo1          ; alle Befehlsbytes ausgeben
        ret

; DIO-Error (Datenrichtungsfehler im FDC) : Stoppen des Systems
;*** evtl. Fehler korrigieren und weiterarbeiten?
; (Ist Fehler ueberhaupt korrigierbar?)

FdcErr: ld      hl,DioMsg
        call    PMsg            ; "DIO-Error" ausgeben
        di
        halt                    ; sicherheitshalber nicht weiter arbeiten

It seems that the FDC Status register requests a data transfer in the
wrong direction on the B-Release Chips... It is this "DIO-Error" that
happens after a few write operations, but formating the disk is possible.


Kind Regards,

Holm


-- 
       Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
         Goethestrasse 15, 09569 Oederan, USt-Id: DE253710583
info at tsht.de Fax +49 37292 709779 Tel +49 37292 709778 Mobil: 0172 8790 741


From compoobah at gmail.com  Mon Dec 20 09:09:57 2021
From: compoobah at gmail.com (Scott Quinn)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2021 07:09:57 -0800
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1639591200.25606.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1639591200.25606.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4e73d383aadb02beb6465abaaa193926cf042fc3.camel@gmail.com>

On Wed, 2021-12-15 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
> Not sure who needs to know.
> Perhaps they are useful for emulation crash analysis, or for
> educational 
> purposes.
> You also see the highly optimizing BLISS32 compiler at work.

First thing that popped into my mind was "fix the huge DCL security
hole finally for VAX." I don't think it has been done yet. Be a lot of
reading after OCR though, too bad it wasn't text files. Also I have no
clue how to program BLISS32 or even MACRO-32, so mostly a pipe dream.


From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 20 12:51:32 2021
From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:51:32 +0000
Subject: VAX/VMS 4.0 source listings scans
In-Reply-To: <4e73d383aadb02beb6465abaaa193926cf042fc3.camel@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1639591200.25606.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <4e73d383aadb02beb6465abaaa193926cf042fc3.camel@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR01MB64619B19E2BB63F9E266CDE9E47B9@SJ0PR01MB6461.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Which security hole are you referring to? The authorize one? That was fixed in VMS 4.4

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 20, 2021, at 07:10, Scott Quinn via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> ?On Wed, 2021-12-15 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>> Not sure who needs to know.
>> Perhaps they are useful for emulation crash analysis, or for
>> educational 
>> purposes.
>> You also see the highly optimizing BLISS32 compiler at work.
> 
> First thing that popped into my mind was "fix the huge DCL security
> hole finally for VAX." I don't think it has been done yet. Be a lot of
> reading after OCR though, too bad it wasn't text files. Also I have no
> clue how to program BLISS32 or even MACRO-32, so mostly a pipe dream.
> 

From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de  Tue Dec 21 03:08:05 2021
From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2021 10:08:05 +0100 (CET)
Subject: TU56 DECtape takeup reel needed
In-Reply-To: <327F47A3-B998-4876-933C-A2E896AC1922@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1639332000.8771.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <774bb92c-2ac5-1779-83e4-436099658ef1@flying-disk.com>
 <5350020b-b7bc-245f-bbbd-902acf757e4e@charter.net>
 <378fbbb1-cd99-c8c4-9055-c40f84d75fd4@12bitsbest.com>
 <327F47A3-B998-4876-933C-A2E896AC1922@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <d86df540-6c24-a1ee-51-f7e87216c016@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, Paul Koning wrote:
> Interesting idea.  A while ago someone posted a picture of what looks 
> like a "go/no-go" gauge for DECtape reels.  It is marked with the 
> dimensions of the two sides: 2.504-2.505 inches for the "no-go" end, 
> 2.494-2.495 for the "go" end.  So that tells us the hole diameter is 
> 2.500 +/- .004.  Can 3D printing deliver that sort of tolerance (with 
> hobbyist-price machines)?

That's huge four milli-inches, that's about 100?m. Hobbyist machines 
usually have a Z (layer) resolution of at least 100?m and a position 
accuracy of about 20?m. The specifications of my Adventurer 3 say 50-400?m 
Z resolution, 11?m X/Y accuracy and 2.5?m Z accuracy.
For a spool it's the X/Y accuracy that matters (and the material of 
course).

Christian

From spectre at floodgap.com  Tue Dec 21 11:50:38 2021
From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2021 09:50:38 -0800
Subject: Samsung Ubigate iBG-1000 router
Message-ID: <069b3633-1de0-c4a1-dad7-940815a7bfce@floodgap.com>

Well, DSL Extreme is getting out of the T1 business, leaving me high and dry
(they've really gone to hell since GTT bought them out) since they don't offer
a static IP option on any of their lines anymore. I'll be working around that
problem for the next couple months while we move ...

Anyway, I have a spare Ubigate iBG-1000 T1 router here set up by the tech, but
no password to access it. It appears to be an embedded PowerPC system, around
603 level. I have some possible reset instructions and can access its serial
console, but was wondering if anyone out there has the administration manual
for it. It might be fun to repurpose it.
-- 
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- PowerPC inside! ------------------------------------------------------------


From trash80 at internode.on.net  Tue Dec 21 13:52:00 2021
From: trash80 at internode.on.net (Kevin Parker)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 06:52:00 +1100
Subject: WTB IBM Keyboard 
Message-ID: <15dd01d7f6a4$38ab0340$aa0109c0$@internode.on.net>

Hi folks - I'm looking for a keyboard for my IBM 3197 Model D Twinax
terminal.

(My location - Victoria Australia)

Thank you!!


Kevin Parker



From lyokoboy0 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 21 13:54:08 2021
From: lyokoboy0 at gmail.com (devin davison)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2021 14:54:08 -0500
Subject: WTB IBM Keyboard
In-Reply-To: <15dd01d7f6a4$38ab0340$aa0109c0$@internode.on.net>
References: <15dd01d7f6a4$38ab0340$aa0109c0$@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <CAOpB=UMFgeUnMSAg4AhuwmN3MPNvv-xRGBmTbPZpvn6-f97hcA@mail.gmail.com>

I work at and IBM Data Center and there were a lot of spare keyboards in
the back please direct message me and I can get you an exact model number
of the keyboards I have on hands and a quote on the shipping cost

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021, 2:52 PM Kevin Parker via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:

> Hi folks - I'm looking for a keyboard for my IBM 3197 Model D Twinax
> terminal.
>
> (My location - Victoria Australia)
>
> Thank you!!
>
>
> Kevin Parker
>
>
>

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 22 09:59:07 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 15:59:07 -0000
Subject: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
Message-ID: <008d01d7f74c$da363600$8ea2a200$@ntlworld.com>

I am looking for the service guide for the RF30 DSSI disk. It is not on Manx
and not on BitSavers. Does anyone know of a copy? The part number is
apparently EK-RF30D-SV.

 

Thanks

 

Rob


From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Wed Dec 22 14:53:50 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:53:50 -0800
Subject: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1640196000.77960.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1640196000.77960.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <b4631708-c041-2342-6233-ecac2d564716@flying-disk.com>

Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I am looking for the service guide for the RF30 DSSI disk. It is not on Manx
> and not on BitSavers. Does anyone know of a copy? The part number is
> apparently EK-RF30D-SV.
If anyone finds one, I would greatly appreciate a copy also.

Thanks,
Alan Frisbie

From jesse at cypress-tech.com  Thu Dec 23 12:57:40 2021
From: jesse at cypress-tech.com (Jesse Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 13:57:40 -0500
Subject: HP / Agilent 3065 In-Circuit Test System -
Message-ID: <2897bfd6-34a9-5877-036e-823ff9de1cef@cypress-tech.com>

Does anyone on this list know of a company or individual that does work 
(maintenance or anything) on these older 3065 test systems. The internal 
brain and drives are all HP 1000 stuff. A900 control unit and HP-IB 
drives. I have a user that needs help installing a drive and software on 
one. If anyone knows of anyone that can assist, let me know and I'll 
forward the info

Thanks

Jesse / Cypress Technology Inc



From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 23 03:45:06 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:45:06 -0000
Subject: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
In-Reply-To: <008d01d7f74c$da363600$8ea2a200$@ntlworld.com>
References: <008d01d7f74c$da363600$8ea2a200$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <00b201d7f7e1$c478eac0$4d6ac040$@ntlworld.com>

I wonder if anyone knows what diagnostic code 300B means?

>>>set host/dup/uqssp/disk 2 params
PARAMS> status config

Configuration:
  Node DIA0   is an RF30 controller
  Software RFX V103 built on  5-MAY-1989 13:18:42
  Electronics module name is EN94019334
  Unit is inoperative, error code 300B(X)
  Last known unit failure code 300B(X)
  In 60233 power-on hours, power has cycled 189 times
  System time is  5-MAY-1989 13:19:46

Regards

Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt via
> cctalk
> Sent: 22 December 2021 15:59
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
> 
> I am looking for the service guide for the RF30 DSSI disk. It is not on
Manx and
> not on BitSavers. Does anyone know of a copy? The part number is
> apparently EK-RF30D-SV.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Rob


From peveep at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 05:01:07 2021
From: peveep at gmail.com (Peter Van Peborgh)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 11:01:07 +0000
Subject: Stage 2 Macroprocessor
Message-ID: <CAN0iNw9Qi0F42-wSGg=i7dy=Y2sDUN4GVCzKxSek6ESdHurTtA@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

Has anyone out there in the big wide world there got a version of the Stage
2 Macroprocessor than is ready to run on a Windows PC? I don't mean the
build-it-yourself version.
Refer to
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234809181_The_mobile_programming_system_STAGE2
.
Many thanks,

peter vp

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 23 11:46:26 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:46:26 -0000
Subject: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
In-Reply-To: <00b201d7f7e1$c478eac0$4d6ac040$@ntlworld.com>
References: <008d01d7f74c$da363600$8ea2a200$@ntlworld.com>
 <00b201d7f7e1$c478eac0$4d6ac040$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <00f501d7f825$026e2410$074a6c30$@ntlworld.com>

I have tried three different RF30 disks, two of them from one source and one
from a completely different source, so completely different histories. They
all give me the same diagnostic error code, 0x300B, which seems to be too
much of a coincidence, so I think it may be something in my configuration.

I am using a MicroVAX 3800 (KA655 with KFQSA). When I power on, the fault
light comes on and then goes out after a while. This I believe is normal
behaviour. However, as soon as I try to access the disk (e.g. SHOW DEVICES
in the console firmware) the fault light come on and when I boot to VMS
(from a different disk), VMS can't see the drive.

I thought it might be some kind of DSSI ID conflict because I have an RF72
in the machine at ID 0. Removing the RF72 does not change the behaviour.
Installing an ID=0 plug on the RF30 does not change the behaviour. I set the
DIP switches on the RF30s to have an ID=1 and still it doesn't work and
PARAMS reports UNITNUM=0. I followed this page
http://mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/dssi-plug.html but it didn't work:

PARAMS> sho /mscp

Parameter     Current           Default        Type     Radix
--------- ----------------  ----------------  --------  -----
MSCPNVR   2020202020202020  2020202020202020
          2020202020202020  2020202020202020
          2020202020202020  2020202020202020
          2020202020202020  2020202020202020    String    Hex   RO
UNITID    1502401193918703     0000000000000  Quadword    Hex   RO
ALLCLASS                 0                 0      Byte    Dec   B
MEDIAID           2264601E          2264601E  Longword    Hex   RO   U
UNITNUM                  0                 0      Word    Dec   U
FIVEDIME                 1                 1   Boolean    0/1   B
FORCEUNI                 1                 1   Boolean    0/1   U
FORCECID                 1                 1   Boolean    0/1   RO
CNT_TMO                 60                60      Word    Dec   RO

PARAMS> set unitnum 1

PARAMS> set forceuni 0

PARAMS> write
Failed to acquire unit, cannot WRITE

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks

Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt via
> cctalk
> Sent: 23 December 2021 09:45
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
> 
> I wonder if anyone knows what diagnostic code 300B means?
> 
> >>>set host/dup/uqssp/disk 2 params
> PARAMS> status config
> 
> Configuration:
>   Node DIA0   is an RF30 controller
>   Software RFX V103 built on  5-MAY-1989 13:18:42
>   Electronics module name is EN94019334
>   Unit is inoperative, error code 300B(X)
>   Last known unit failure code 300B(X)
>   In 60233 power-on hours, power has cycled 189 times
>   System time is  5-MAY-1989 13:19:46
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
> > via cctalk
> > Sent: 22 December 2021 15:59
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: DEC RF30 Integrated Storage Element Service Guide
> >
> > I am looking for the service guide for the RF30 DSSI disk. It is not
> > on
> Manx and
> > not on BitSavers. Does anyone know of a copy? The part number is
> > apparently EK-RF30D-SV.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob


From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Thu Dec 23 22:43:08 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 20:43:08 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>

I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
supported by two gas struts, one on each side.

Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
heavy!

Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?

Thanks,
Alan Frisbie


From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 24 01:24:22 2021
From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 07:24:22 +0000
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR01MB6461438667BA34EDF08EF569E47F9@SJ0PR01MB6461.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Try an auto parts store.




Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 20:43, Alan Frisbie via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
> supported by two gas struts, one on each side.
> 
> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
> failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
> heavy!
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan Frisbie
> 

From steven at malikoff.com  Fri Dec 24 04:55:59 2021
From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 20:55:59 +1000
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
Message-ID: <21724106ee275fd5f4446801d91bd7b8.squirrel@webmail04.register.com>

Alan asked

> I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
> supported by two gas struts, one on each side.
>
> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
> failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
> heavy!
>
> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?

No idea about original but if aftermarket is ok:
ebay.com       69,448 results for gas strut
Results could surely be narrowed down if dimensions provided.

Also for a given size they come in different levels of compression
force required.
I have replaced a few here and there, and also had them re-gassed
by a mobile service although that did not really last a long time.

Steve




From nf6x at nf6x.net  Fri Dec 24 13:29:13 2021
From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 11:29:13 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <21724106ee275fd5f4446801d91bd7b8.squirrel@webmail04.register.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
 <21724106ee275fd5f4446801d91bd7b8.squirrel@webmail04.register.com>
Message-ID: <46BF43C7-2E11-4A9E-A108-2A8E06847F05@nf6x.net>

Like Steve, I don't know about the original application. My own 11/44 project pile has the slide out and rotate style of slides, to the extent that it has any slides at all. When I need gas struts and cannot identify a source for exact original replacements, I usually look at McMaster-Carr first:

https://www.mcmaster.com/gas-struts/

-- 
Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net>
Blog:    https://www.nf6x.net
Git:     https://gitlab.com/users/NF6X/groups
HECnet:  DOGPAK::MBLAIR
Twitter: @nf6x


From jwsmail at jwsss.com  Fri Dec 24 13:58:43 2021
From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 11:58:43 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
Message-ID: <7fdbc1a5-32a4-63cc-e00b-ca706c37fef9@jwsss.com>

I have the same system cabinet, but have not looked at it in detail.? I 
think from some of the replies, they are thinking about the H960 tall 
cabinets and systems that are pulled out, then rotate on the slides.

This I think is? like the hood of a car, then the system tilts up, as 
the cabinet isn't that tall that you can't work on it on top.

As to sources, either automotive sources and match the fit, or a 
supplier like McMaster Carr.? I don't think any NOS on these would be 
any better than the ones? you have that rotted out.

I only just got the 11/44 and didn't poke at it yet, just moved it from 
the original owner's storage to mine.

I hope it to be one of my first 'big' projects after some PDP8s are tackled.

thanks
JIm

On 12/23/2021 8:43 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
> I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
> supported by two gas struts, one on each side.
>
> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
> failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
> heavy!
>
> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?
>
> Thanks,
> Alan Frisbie
>


From healyzh at avanthar.com  Fri Dec 24 14:16:04 2021
From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 12:16:04 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <7fdbc1a5-32a4-63cc-e00b-ca706c37fef9@jwsss.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
 <7fdbc1a5-32a4-63cc-e00b-ca706c37fef9@jwsss.com>
Message-ID: <EE605FC8-F4F9-4889-99B3-729C15F468CA@avanthar.com>

Out of curiosity, is there a manual for this style PDP-11/44 online?  This is the style I have, but I?m pretty sure my manual is for the pull-out enclosure.  

A manual on this enclosure might give some idea on the gas struts.

Zane



> On Dec 24, 2021, at 11:58 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> I have the same system cabinet, but have not looked at it in detail.  I think from some of the replies, they are thinking about the H960 tall cabinets and systems that are pulled out, then rotate on the slides.
> 
> This I think is  like the hood of a car, then the system tilts up, as the cabinet isn't that tall that you can't work on it on top.
> 
> As to sources, either automotive sources and match the fit, or a supplier like McMaster Carr.  I don't think any NOS on these would be any better than the ones  you have that rotted out.
> 
> I only just got the 11/44 and didn't poke at it yet, just moved it from the original owner's storage to mine.
> 
> I hope it to be one of my first 'big' projects after some PDP8s are tackled.
> 
> thanks
> JIm
> 
> On 12/23/2021 8:43 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
>> I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
>> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
>> supported by two gas struts, one on each side.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
>> failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
>> heavy!
>> 
>> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Alan Frisbie
>> 
> 


From jwsmail at jwsss.com  Fri Dec 24 14:22:10 2021
From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 12:22:10 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <EE605FC8-F4F9-4889-99B3-729C15F468CA@avanthar.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
 <7fdbc1a5-32a4-63cc-e00b-ca706c37fef9@jwsss.com>
 <EE605FC8-F4F9-4889-99B3-729C15F468CA@avanthar.com>
Message-ID: <f3ca8226-446d-b09c-2fac-798745bed312@jwsss.com>

There was a Basic four system I had which was a small amount taller but 
you get into having to have a really big counterweight.? I could imagine 
a smaller amount and the rear placement of the 11/44 Power supply weight 
would allow RL02s and such pulled, but leave the system where it is and 
raise the lid.

All w/o having gone to look it up, so I'm guessing.? Also the H960 has 
small feet that support the weight as well when you pull things for service.

thanks
Jim

On 12/24/2021 12:16 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
> Out of curiosity, is there a manual for this style PDP-11/44 online?  This is the style I have, but I?m pretty sure my manual is for the pull-out enclosure.
>
> A manual on this enclosure might give some idea on the gas struts.
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>> On Dec 24, 2021, at 11:58 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I have the same system cabinet, but have not looked at it in detail.  I think from some of the replies, they are thinking about the H960 tall cabinets and systems that are pulled out, then rotate on the slides.
>>
>> This I think is  like the hood of a car, then the system tilts up, as the cabinet isn't that tall that you can't work on it on top.
>>
>> As to sources, either automotive sources and match the fit, or a supplier like McMaster Carr.  I don't think any NOS on these would be any better than the ones  you have that rotted out.
>>
>> I only just got the 11/44 and didn't poke at it yet, just moved it from the original owner's storage to mine.
>>
>> I hope it to be one of my first 'big' projects after some PDP8s are tackled.
>>
>> thanks
>> JIm
>>
>> On 12/23/2021 8:43 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
>>> I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
>>> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
>>> supported by two gas struts, one on each side.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
>>> failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
>>> heavy!
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alan Frisbie
>>>


From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 01:41:13 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2021 02:41:13 -0500
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <EE605FC8-F4F9-4889-99B3-729C15F468CA@avanthar.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
 <7fdbc1a5-32a4-63cc-e00b-ca706c37fef9@jwsss.com>
 <EE605FC8-F4F9-4889-99B3-729C15F468CA@avanthar.com>
Message-ID: <0b2a01d7f962$cb294630$617bd290$@gmail.com>

This would be the "11X44" configuration where the 11/44 is mounted in a 40 inch top-loading H9642 cabinet ("corp cab").

See http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1144/1144_UsersGuide.pdf, Figure 4-5 (page 4-7)

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Zane Healy via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2021 3:16 PM
To: jim stephens <jwsmail at jwsss.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/44 gas struts

Out of curiosity, is there a manual for this style PDP-11/44 online?  This is the style I have, but I?m pretty sure my manual is for the pull-out enclosure.  

A manual on this enclosure might give some idea on the gas struts.

Zane



> On Dec 24, 2021, at 11:58 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> I have the same system cabinet, but have not looked at it in detail.  I think from some of the replies, they are thinking about the H960 tall cabinets and systems that are pulled out, then rotate on the slides.
> 
> This I think is  like the hood of a car, then the system tilts up, as the cabinet isn't that tall that you can't work on it on top.
> 
> As to sources, either automotive sources and match the fit, or a supplier like McMaster Carr.  I don't think any NOS on these would be any better than the ones  you have that rotted out.
> 
> I only just got the 11/44 and didn't poke at it yet, just moved it from the original owner's storage to mine.
> 
> I hope it to be one of my first 'big' projects after some PDP8s are tackled.
> 
> thanks
> JIm
> 
> On 12/23/2021 8:43 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
>> I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
>> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and supported by 
>> two gas struts, one on each side.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have failed and do 
>> not provide any assistance. That box is heavy!
>> 
>> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Alan Frisbie
>> 
> 


From tdk.knight at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 02:01:42 2021
From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2021 02:01:42 -0600
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <f3ca8226-446d-b09c-2fac-798745bed312@jwsss.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640282400.30297.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <6dc6089b-fd28-3a9b-b5fd-4b1c3131645b@flying-disk.com>
 <7fdbc1a5-32a4-63cc-e00b-ca706c37fef9@jwsss.com>
 <EE605FC8-F4F9-4889-99B3-729C15F468CA@avanthar.com>
 <f3ca8226-446d-b09c-2fac-798745bed312@jwsss.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3rs22+Zup7sB=yGbd+v-NLP1fCkwnmoRUdzRUWqTXDov3EMg@mail.gmail.com>

take them off and take them to a specialized automotoive shop.

On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 2:22 PM jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

> There was a Basic four system I had which was a small amount taller but
> you get into having to have a really big counterweight.  I could imagine
> a smaller amount and the rear placement of the 11/44 Power supply weight
> would allow RL02s and such pulled, but leave the system where it is and
> raise the lid.
>
> All w/o having gone to look it up, so I'm guessing.  Also the H960 has
> small feet that support the weight as well when you pull things for
> service.
>
> thanks
> Jim
>
> On 12/24/2021 12:16 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
> > Out of curiosity, is there a manual for this style PDP-11/44 online?
> This is the style I have, but I?m pretty sure my manual is for the pull-out
> enclosure.
> >
> > A manual on this enclosure might give some idea on the gas struts.
> >
> > Zane
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 24, 2021, at 11:58 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have the same system cabinet, but have not looked at it in detail.  I
> think from some of the replies, they are thinking about the H960 tall
> cabinets and systems that are pulled out, then rotate on the slides.
> >>
> >> This I think is  like the hood of a car, then the system tilts up, as
> the cabinet isn't that tall that you can't work on it on top.
> >>
> >> As to sources, either automotive sources and match the fit, or a
> supplier like McMaster Carr.  I don't think any NOS on these would be any
> better than the ones  you have that rotted out.
> >>
> >> I only just got the 11/44 and didn't poke at it yet, just moved it from
> the original owner's storage to mine.
> >>
> >> I hope it to be one of my first 'big' projects after some PDP8s are
> tackled.
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> JIm
> >>
> >> On 12/23/2021 8:43 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
> >>> I have a PDP-11/44 system in the DEC 41" high cabinet.
> >>> It is designed to be tilted up for service, aided and
> >>> supported by two gas struts, one on each side.
> >>>
> >>> Unfortunately, after all these years, the struts have
> >>> failed and do not provide any assistance. That box is
> >>> heavy!
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone know where I can get replacement gas struts?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Alan Frisbie
> >>>
>
>

From dnm at pobox.com  Sat Dec 25 14:56:18 2021
From: dnm at pobox.com (Daniel Moniz)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2021 12:56:18 -0800
Subject: Stage 2 Macroprocessor
In-Reply-To: <CAN0iNw9Qi0F42-wSGg=i7dy=Y2sDUN4GVCzKxSek6ESdHurTtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN0iNw9Qi0F42-wSGg=i7dy=Y2sDUN4GVCzKxSek6ESdHurTtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <063f901b-65fc-43ce-aaec-9e94b87c93da@www.fastmail.com>

Hi Peter,

On Thu, Dec 23, 2021, at 3:01 AM, Peter Van Peborgh via cctalk wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Has anyone out there in the big wide world there got a version of the 
> Stage
> 2 Macroprocessor than is ready to run on a Windows PC? I don't mean the
> build-it-yourself version.
> Refer to
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234809181_The_mobile_programming_system_STAGE2

I have binaries I compiled a couple years ago of some different implementations, including William Waite's distribution. Took some minor hacking to get things to build, but seems to work for me, though I haven't used it lately, so it may fail on some test cases it should pass on. Drop me a line (dnm at pobox.com) if you want the circa 2019 32-bit Windows command line executable of the William Waite distribution I put together with Simply Fortran and Mingw-w64.


-- 
Daniel Moniz <dnm at pobox.com> [http://pobox.com/~dnm/]

From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Sat Dec 25 17:37:46 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2021 15:37:46 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1640455200.41582.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1640455200.41582.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <d20a33c5-7aaf-a370-6360-e3bb397f40df@flying-disk.com>

Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:

 > When I need gas struts and cannot identify a source for exact original
 > replacements, I usually look at McMaster-Carr first:
 > https://www.mcmaster.com/gas-struts/

Thanks for the McMaster-Carr suggestion, I should have thought of that.

I removed the gas struts from my PDP-11/44 and found the following
markings:

Gas Spring Corp.
Colmar, PA
1216166-0-0
22/81/3  (the "1" might be an "I")

I measured them, and found a compressed length of about 9.8" and an
extended length of 15.25".   The threaded studs are 5/16"-24.

I can't find the company, and Google turns up nothing with either
of the number strings.  Nor do the numbers seem to indicate what
the specifications might be.  Perhaps someone with better Google
skills than I have might find something.

It is, however, an almost perfect match for McMaster-Carr P/N 4138T55.
The big unknown is the extension force.  After cleaning and oiling them,
one of the bad ones measures about 12 pounds, and the other is about 23
pounds.   The 4138T55 is available in 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 90, and
120 pounds.

I made a wild random guess and ordered two of the 30 pound struts,
which should be delivered Wednesday (12/29/2021).  The 40 pound
ones have a seven week lead time, and a pair of 50 pound ones seem
way too high.  When they arrive, I'll let you know how well they work.

Worst case, I will have wasted $20.29 each, plus shipping, and have
to wait seven weeks for the 40 pound units, or go whole hog and try
the 50 pound ones.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Alan Frisbie

From stepleton at gmail.com  Sun Dec 26 11:41:22 2021
From: stepleton at gmail.com (Tom Stepleton)
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:41:22 +0000
Subject: "Voltmitten": an amateur overdesigns a DC voltage monitor
Message-ID: <CAGM3D+rCOcd4PW_Eu_sKNTX1uH1U=jNuO5OWJFP-rLUwH3erVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi cctalk,

Ever since CuriousMarc put out his YouTube horror film last April
about a killer
HP 9825T power supply
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-eN93L6yX8&list=PL-_93BVApb58Hy846J52DT8FeF9USYJUn&index=1>,
I've been worrying about how my own comparably-aged systems might avoid a
similar fate, at least until I have the wherewithal to do a Jerry Walker
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGkakWu37P6CuzIZbTlCmvg>-esque
high-quality PSU refurbishment.

In the end, borrowing a tactic from Commodore fans, I made a circuit that
sits between a DC power supply and a load and cuts off the power if it
senses an overvoltage or an undervoltage condition. I'm happy to share it
with you now, with the usual anxiety amateurs feel when an audience
includes some professionals. I hope at least some elements of the design
can be useful! Here it is: https://github.com/stepleton/voltmitten/

(There are two reasons for the name "Voltmitten". One is that the gizmo is
shaped a bit like a hand. The other is to remind you that it wasn't really
designed by the most serious practitioner.)

You can see my cute mock video advert for Voltmitten here:
https://youtu.be/hSaAHBhTh_A
I hope it's an adequate homage to Marc's inspiring videos. Most of the
effort here went into a brief gag view of a carefully rotoscoped
<https://twitter.com/tstepleton/status/1475093211983097860> Bob Stern aka
"Mr. Fancy Pants", which may not have been the best use of time but is at
least a result I can feel proud of :-)

With best wishes for a bright 2022,
--Tom

From sieler at allegro.com  Mon Dec 27 13:55:31 2021
From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 11:55:31 -0800
Subject: Chuck Shimada passed away
Message-ID: <CAKZvcPja_T+-Rf4U4=Q62qJRyMDNEBBmiCFzSFqowLpLT=nKTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Long-time HP3000 programmer/user/evangelist, and friend, Chuck Shimada
passed away yesterday, 12/26.

Many list members will have seen Chuck at Interex and SCRUG conventions,
running the tech side, or as part of the convention staff.   He was a major
force in the creation of the early "swap tapes" for contributed software.
The science fiction fans on the list may have also seen him running tech at
many science fiction conventions.

>From a facebook post by Michael Donohue:

I am very saddened to report that Chuck Shimada passed away this morning,
Dec 26, 2021. He had been doing okay but was not feeling great Dec 24/25.
I spoke to him Dec 24 and we had a nice conversation.
He had some episode in his sleep, the nurse found him this morning alive
but unresponsive with weak pulse and he passed away a few hours later.  So
he likely did pass without conscious discomfort.

//

From s101885 at outlook.com  Mon Dec 27 19:20:04 2021
From: s101885 at outlook.com (Ryan Ottignon)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:20:04 +0000
Subject: 86-DOS and Seattle Computer Products
Message-ID: <MN2PR04MB64787193570BC00298EA03CFAA439@MN2PR04MB6478.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi ccTalk!

My name is Ryan and I may have been in contact with a few of you already (Rich, most notably) about this topic. I am on a pretty wide search of any versions of 86-DOS, or any information regarding it.

As of now, I have 7 copies of 86-DOS. They cover a disappointing range of versions ? from 1.00 to 1.14. There are a lot of duplicates. Versions prior to 1.00 were sold ? for example, I know of 2 collectors with versions in the 0.3x range, but both are unable to image it due to technical limitations.

I?ve already contacted quite a few people. Most interestingly are 5 former Seattle Computer Products employees, as well as 2 family members of SCP owner Rod Brock. Tim Paterson, the creator of 86-DOS, didn?t have a copy, nor its source code. Pat Opalka, who contributed a bug fix, is in possession of a few copies, though none are prior to 1.00 (he may or may not be able to image them ? if he does, I?ll send another message here). 3 other employees didn?t have any documents from the time, nor any copies of the software. The 2 family members of Rod Brock don?t have any copies, but have relevant documents and recordings that they are in the process of sending over.

So, if you have any copies of 86-DOS, even if you don?t want to share or its version is 1.00 or above, please send an e-mail back. I can send over imaging instructions. It was sold with the following computers:
- Seattle Computer Products 8086 System
- Seattle Computer Products Gazelle
- Lomas Data Products LDP88
- Lomas Data Products LDP1
- Lomas Data Products LDP2
There are 8? copies for Tarbell and Cromemco floppy disk controllers, as well as 5.25? copies for NorthStar disk controllers.

I will also take other relevant things such as people to contact, manuals, recollections of versions you may have had, etc.

Thank you all for your time!

- Ryan Ottignon

From ats at offog.org  Tue Dec 28 04:08:27 2021
From: ats at offog.org (Adam Sampson)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 10:08:27 +0000
Subject: 86-DOS and Seattle Computer Products
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR04MB64787193570BC00298EA03CFAA439@MN2PR04MB6478.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 (Ryan Ottignon via cctalk's message of "Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:20:04
 +0000")
References: <MN2PR04MB64787193570BC00298EA03CFAA439@MN2PR04MB6478.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <y2a35mdyrc4.fsf@offog.org>

Ryan Ottignon via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> writes:

> So, if you have any copies of 86-DOS, even if you don?t want to share
> or its version is 1.00 or above, please send an e-mail back.

You probably have this already, but there's at least one version in Don
Maslin's collection of disk images:
  http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/maslin_archive.zip

See maslin_c_d_10apr97/ddrive/sydex/dos/scp86dos.td0 (Teledisk format;
ImageDisk can convert this to other formats if needed).

Cheers,

-- 
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org>                         <http://offog.org/>

From pontus at Update.UU.SE  Thu Dec 30 05:14:51 2021
From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:14:51 +0100
Subject: New mailadress
Message-ID: <20211230111451.pk4v3yduojqrp7ss@Update.UU.SE>

Hi

I've been using this adress for many years: "pontus at update.uu.se". But 
the club is now at risk of loosing the domain name. I'm therefore moving 
over to "pontus at dfupdate.se"

Sorry if this is of topic but I have made many acquaintances on this 
list that might not find out otherwise.

Regards,
Pontus.

From pontus at Update.UU.SE  Thu Dec 30 05:21:50 2021
From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:21:50 +0100
Subject: New mailadress
Message-ID: <20211230112149.767suv3atsmqmajy@Update.UU.SE>

Hi

I've been using this adress for many years: "pontus at update.uu.se". But 
the club is now at risk of loosing the domain name. I'm therefore moving 
over to "pontus at dfupdate.se"

Sorry if this is of topic but I have made many acquaintances on this 
list that might not find out otherwise.

Regards,
Pontus.


From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 30 12:08:19 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 18:08:19 -0000
Subject: Testing a H744 Regulator on The Bench
Message-ID: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>

Hello All,

 

Following a discussion on resurrecting a PDP 11/45 I have started looking at
the regulator bricks in the PSU. I have started with a H744. I reformed the
three big capacitors, although they seemed to be fine as they charged up
from my DC bench PSU and then had zero leakage so I didn't reform them for
very long. I then moved on to powering the whole unit from my DC bench PSU
and it seemed to run fine. I am using a panel mount 1R resistor, so drawing
5A of the rated 25A. It drew just under 2A from the PSU which was set at
20V. I didn't run it for very long as I wasn't sure how hot to allow the
load to get.

 

Is there any sense in measuring ripple when powering this from DC? There
does seem to be some ripple:
https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/h744-ripple.png hard to say if
that is OK?

 

Also, the indicator light does not work (as expected). I have seen the
suggestion to replace it with a CM7381. It looks like these can be sourced
<https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/?qs=N8%2Bk0S5zvCZ7dMEMH2XU9Q%3D%3D>
with relative ease, but I wondered if there might be a better LED-based
longer term solution? I was also advised that OL-6003BP is good for the 15V
regulators, but these seem to be hard to find, any suggestions there?

 

Thanks

 

Rob


From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Thu Dec 30 14:39:29 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:39:29 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <d20a33c5-7aaf-a370-6360-e3bb397f40df@flying-disk.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640455200.41582.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <d20a33c5-7aaf-a370-6360-e3bb397f40df@flying-disk.com>
Message-ID: <e9ea6695-0ca0-178f-6c41-a4f1d7aa9680@flying-disk.com>

On 12/25/21 3:37 PM, I wrote:

> I made a wild random guess and ordered two of the 30 pound struts,
> which should be delivered Wednesday (12/29/2021).? The 40 pound
> ones have a seven week lead time, and a pair of 50 pound ones seem
> way too high.? When they arrive, I'll let you know how well they work.

The 4138T55 30-pound struts arrived, and I have learned a few things:

1. The ball connector ends on the DEC struts have 5/16"-24 threads, but
the 4138T55 struts have 5/16"-18 threads.  Therefore, you need to swap
the ball ends.  This is actually the method that DEC recommends for
replacing the struts and is described on pages 5-5 to 5-7 of the
PDP-11/44 System User's Guide (EK-11024-UG, available on Bitsavers).

2. 30-pound struts are not strong enough.  They improved things a bit,
but it still takes a lot of effort to raise the box.  I have ordered a
pair of 50-pound struts and will post an update when they arrive (next
week).

3. The 4138T55 struts from McMaster-Carr are made by Suspa, Inc. in
Grand Rapids, MI.  According to their design guide, the rod part of the
strut should be installed lower than the body.  This is the reverse of
how DEC installed them, which may be why they don't last.  When the new
struts arrive, I will see if they can physically be mounted that way
(I think they will), and will let you know.

I'm learning a lot about gas struts these days, as the ones on the cover
of my sand blast cabinet also failed after only a few months and the
seller (Eastwood.com) can't supply replacements.  Yet another learning
experience!  :-)

Alan Frisbie

From mattislind at gmail.com  Thu Dec 30 15:11:42 2021
From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 22:11:42 +0100
Subject: Testing a H744 Regulator on The Bench
In-Reply-To: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>
References: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <CABr82SLVRdd52+4WYa4vyJ7+QJC3aHBv-LaP5vogZcovZwd4KA@mail.gmail.com>

Den tors 30 dec. 2021 kl 19:08 skrev Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>:

> Hello All,
>
>
>
> Following a discussion on resurrecting a PDP 11/45 I have started looking
> at
> the regulator bricks in the PSU. I have started with a H744. I reformed the
> three big capacitors, although they seemed to be fine as they charged up
> from my DC bench PSU and then had zero leakage so I didn't reform them for
> very long. I then moved on to powering the whole unit from my DC bench PSU
> and it seemed to run fine. I am using a panel mount 1R resistor, so drawing
> 5A of the rated 25A. It drew just under 2A from the PSU which was set at
> 20V. I didn't run it for very long as I wasn't sure how hot to allow the
> load to get.
>

I think I have been through at least 10 H744 or similar bricks. Helped
Update Computer club to repair a bunch of them. Most common fault was the
rectifier bridge. One had blown in the most spectacular way. The
metalhousing was gone completely. One connector element in the AC in had
fused off.

I used 30VAC input and a 0.4 ohm load resistor when testing. I have a 0.2
ohm but my variac is not able to supply the current needed for full load.
I checked if anything became hot apart from the load resistor.


>
>
> Is there any sense in measuring ripple when powering this from DC? There
> does seem to be some ripple:
> https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/h744-ripple.png hard to say
> if
> that is OK?
>
> That ripple is normal for H744. It is actually designed to have this type
of ripple since the LM 723 regulator is connected with positive feedback
creating a sort of schmitt trigger. It will turn on the switch transistor
when the voltage after the LC network is under a certain limit and then
turn off when it is over another limit, creating this charge/ discharge
ripple seen in the trace.

>
>
> Also, the indicator light does not work (as expected). I have seen the
> suggestion to replace it with a CM7381. It looks like these can be sourced
> <https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/?qs=N8%2Bk0S5zvCZ7dMEMH2XU9Q%3D%3D
> >
> with relative ease, but I wondered if there might be a better LED-based
> longer term solution? I was also advised that OL-6003BP is good for the 15V
> regulators, but these seem to be hard to find, any suggestions there?
>

I replaced them with a LED and a resistor.

/Mattis

>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>

From lists at glitchwrks.com  Thu Dec 30 15:32:30 2021
From: lists at glitchwrks.com (Jonathan Chapman)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 21:32:30 +0000
Subject: Testing a H744 Regulator on The Bench
In-Reply-To: <CABr82SLVRdd52+4WYa4vyJ7+QJC3aHBv-LaP5vogZcovZwd4KA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>
 <CABr82SLVRdd52+4WYa4vyJ7+QJC3aHBv-LaP5vogZcovZwd4KA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oUKCRTMvqgtfbBYcC2zKuNQ3tLDn7tN6syF8hWW1L_jJJSODQoA144gL_qPHFPbGd1uHTOxgsSyjxS4pyT6iiXCXK5MOdNcc9K4pEEkFjw0=@glitchwrks.com>

Sounds like you're testing things basically the way I was:

http://www.glitchwrks.com/2019/06/05/pdp1110-psu-repair

I used a large Stancor 24 VAC transformer to supply power to the modules, since they usually see 20-30 VAC from the big transformer in the chassis.

For dummy loads, I like automotive tail lamp bulbs. Series/parallel as necessary to get the load you want. Do keep in mind they get hot enough at rated voltage to melt soft plastics.

> I replaced them with a LED and a resistor.

Many of the later modules do that anyway! I used incandescent lamps because I had them on hand. Wouldn't you know, after reassembling and a few hours of bench running in the PDP-11/10, one of the old ones I hadn't replaced burned out too :P

Thanks,
Jonathan

From cz at alembic.crystel.com  Thu Dec 30 15:37:37 2021
From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 16:37:37 -0500
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <e9ea6695-0ca0-178f-6c41-a4f1d7aa9680@flying-disk.com>
References: <mailman.1.1640455200.41582.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 <d20a33c5-7aaf-a370-6360-e3bb397f40df@flying-disk.com>
 <e9ea6695-0ca0-178f-6c41-a4f1d7aa9680@flying-disk.com>
Message-ID: <57856a46-b35b-2c76-1cfe-38734a073ada@alembic.crystel.com>

Jesus. How much does the 11/44 chassis weigh?



On 12/30/2021 3:39 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:

> 2. 30-pound struts are not strong enough.? They improved things a bit,
> but it still takes a lot of effort to raise the box.? I have ordered a
> pair of 50-pound struts and will post an update when they arrive (next
> week).

From vincent.slyngstad at gmail.com  Thu Dec 30 15:55:53 2021
From: vincent.slyngstad at gmail.com (Vincent Slyngstad)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 13:55:53 -0800
Subject: Testing a H744 Regulator on The Bench
In-Reply-To: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>
References: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <e21b5cc1-ad0c-17d8-588f-ac1dbfd526d0@gmail.com>

On 12/30/2021 10:08 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> Also, the indicator light does not work (as expected). I have seen the
> suggestion to replace it with a CM7381. It looks like these can be sourced
> <https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/?qs=N8%2Bk0S5zvCZ7dMEMH2XU9Q%3D%3D>
> with relative ease, but I wondered if there might be a better LED-based
> longer term solution? I was also advised that OL-6003BP is good for the 15V
> regulators, but these seem to be hard to find, any suggestions there?

For the OL-6003BP, the CM7370 will work nicely.  The CM7003 is closer to 
the original specs (before de-rating for voltage), but doesn't last as long.

See the PDP-8/I section of:
https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/bulbs.php

	Vince

From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 31 12:09:29 2021
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:09:29 -0000
Subject: Testing a H744 Regulator on The Bench
In-Reply-To: <CABr82SLVRdd52+4WYa4vyJ7+QJC3aHBv-LaP5vogZcovZwd4KA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00e801d7fda8$39bc6520$ad352f60$@ntlworld.com>
 <CABr82SLVRdd52+4WYa4vyJ7+QJC3aHBv-LaP5vogZcovZwd4KA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d7fe71$8e5f5190$ab1df4b0$@ntlworld.com>

Regarding the ripple, can you see the spikes at the bottom of the troughs? They are a bit faint but they are there. Are they normal?

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com> 
Sent: 30 December 2021 21:12
To: rob at jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Testing a H744 Regulator on The Bench

 

 

 

Den tors 30 dec. 2021 kl 19:08 skrev Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> >:

Hello All,



Following a discussion on resurrecting a PDP 11/45 I have started looking at
the regulator bricks in the PSU. I have started with a H744. I reformed the
three big capacitors, although they seemed to be fine as they charged up
from my DC bench PSU and then had zero leakage so I didn't reform them for
very long. I then moved on to powering the whole unit from my DC bench PSU
and it seemed to run fine. I am using a panel mount 1R resistor, so drawing
5A of the rated 25A. It drew just under 2A from the PSU which was set at
20V. I didn't run it for very long as I wasn't sure how hot to allow the
load to get.

 

I think I have been through at least 10 H744 or similar bricks. Helped Update Computer club to repair a bunch of them. Most common fault was the rectifier bridge. One had blown in the most spectacular way. The metalhousing was gone completely. One connector element in the AC in had fused off.

 

I used 30VAC input and a 0.4 ohm load resistor when testing. I have a 0.2 ohm but my variac is not able to supply the current needed for full load. 

I checked if anything became hot apart from the load resistor.

 




Is there any sense in measuring ripple when powering this from DC? There
does seem to be some ripple:
https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/h744-ripple.png hard to say if
that is OK?

That ripple is normal for H744. It is actually designed to have this type of ripple since the LM 723 regulator is connected with positive feedback creating a sort of schmitt trigger. It will turn on the switch transistor when the voltage after the LC network is under a certain limit and then turn off when it is over another limit, creating this charge/ discharge ripple seen in the trace.

 



Also, the indicator light does not work (as expected). I have seen the
suggestion to replace it with a CM7381. It looks like these can be sourced
<https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/?qs=N8%2Bk0S5zvCZ7dMEMH2XU9Q%3D%3D>
with relative ease, but I wondered if there might be a better LED-based
longer term solution? I was also advised that OL-6003BP is good for the 15V
regulators, but these seem to be hard to find, any suggestions there?

 

I replaced them with a LED and a resistor. 

 

/Mattis 


Thanks



Rob


From Flash688 at flying-disk.com  Fri Dec 31 19:52:49 2021
From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 17:52:49 -0800
Subject: PDP-11/44 gas struts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1640973600.62910.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
References: <mailman.1.1640973600.62910.cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <8c20b54e-a947-4ffe-9d9d-7f14463efd3d@flying-disk.com>


Chris Zach <cz at alembic.crystel.com> wrote:

> Jesus. How much does the 11/44 chassis weigh?
> 
> On 12/30/2021 3:39 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> 2. 30-pound struts are not strong enough.? They improved things a bit,
>> but it still takes a lot of effort to raise the box.? I have ordered a
>> pair of 50-pound struts and will post an update when they arrive (next
>> week).

The box itself weighs about 75 pounds, plus the weight of the cards.

Remember, however, that the struts are not doing a simple lift of
the box.  The box is acting as a lever.  The box is 24" long, and the
struts are only about 5" from the pivot.  Also, the struts are not
doing a straight lift from directly below their attachment to the box,
but at a point about 11" forward from where they are attached to the
box.  All of this greatly magnifies the force required to tilt the box
up.  Anyone care to do the math on this?

Alan Frisbie

From cctalk at beyondthepale.ie  Thu Dec 30 17:00:02 2021
From: cctalk at beyondthepale.ie (Peter Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 23:00:02 +0000 (WET)
Subject: H7821 power supply in MicroVAX 3100, SCSI disk enclosures and others
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.21.2002162348250.927164@eddie.linux-mips.org>
References: <01RGTSDYQHTW8X6K5E@beyondthepale.ie>
Message-ID: <01S8BJOYKEQ48WW0VA@beyondthepale.ie>

Speaking of problems with DEC power supplies...

Some time ago I posted about problems with five 1800uF capacitors in multiple
H7821 power supplies leaking electrolyte, particularly when the machines are
stored in the wrong orientation.

One of my MicroVAX 3100 machines has a slightly different looking H7821 power
supply with a shiney case instead of the matt cases on all the other ones.
The five capacitors in this one seemed to be in good shape although on closer
inspection there may be slight traces of leakage on some of them.

However, after running happily for five to ten minutes, it went pop with the
4A glass mains input fuse blackened.  Access is difficult enough but not
impossible.  This PSU consists of a double sided main PCB where the high power
components are and four daughter boards permanently attached at right angles
to the main board and blocking easy access to many of the heatsink mounted
components.  There are no component references and it is difficult to trace
the circuit because the tracks on the component side of the main PCB are
hidden by the larger components, heatsinks etc.  There was dirty black dust
accumulated by the fans everywhere and it was difficult to clean off because
of all the obstructions.  Starting at the mains input, I tried looking for
shorted capacitors, bridge rectifier, chopper transistor, diodes etc that
might cause the fuse to blow but failed to find anything obviously wrong.
I also looked at the output rectifiers and smoothing capacitors and found
nothing obviously wrong there either.

I decided to replace the fuse and try the old series light bulb trick.  My
150W bulb glowed at about a fifth of it's full brilliance and the power
supply seemed to function reasonably well, the green LED came on, the fans
turned and the unloaded +5V and +12V outputs looked good.  However the
brightness of the bulb suggested too much current was being drawn.  An
el-cheapo digital multimeter suggested there was only 28V across the power
supply mains input.  A slightly better model suggested it was closer to 90V
(out of 220V), however the likely wacky waveform could be confusing the meter.

I left it running in this state for a little while but pulled out the mains
lead when I thought I got a slight whiff of cooking electronics.  It was quite
difficult to quickly check that the input smoothing capacitors had discharged
enough and probe various likely components with fingers to see which might be
getting hot before they had time to cool down again.  After a couple of
attempts, I identified a MOV/varistor/surge arrestor thing in some thick
heatshrink rubber stuff as a likely suspect.  After unsoldering it, I found
it was cracked and blackened on the underside where I couldn't see because
of the heatshrink covering it.  I replaced it with the equivalent one out
of another H7821 which had been damaged by capacitor leakage.

When I turned the power on, the bulb glowed much less, however, there were
unexplained slight variations in it's brightness.  While I was studying this,
there was a slight cracking sound accompanied by a wisp of smoke and the
bulb suddenly got much brighter.  The replacement MOV thing had failed.  It
was connected across one of the main input smoothing capacitors, the other
capacitor also having one which was unaffected.

This fault was starting to look a bit familiar to me.  In a different DEC
power supply, I had a triac used to switch the power supply automatically
between 220V and 110V mains input go short circuit causing a similarly placed
MOV and fuse to fail when the unit was powered from 220V.  I tried looking for
a similar functioning triac in the H7821 which was not easy to do as explained.
The best way to identify this component seems to be to look for a three legged
high power component (which may or may not be on a heatsink - the previous one
wasn't) which is more or less directly connected between the (neutral?) AC
input to the bridge rectifier and the point where one end of each of the input
main smoothing capacitors are connected together.  Trying to follow the PCB
traces was nearly impossible but buzzing out lightly suspects with a
continuity tester identified a MAC220-8 mounted on the same heatsink as the
main chopper device plus a temperature sensing thermistor right at the input
end of the power supply as very likely to be it.  It wasn't shorted which was
disappointing but I decided to take it out of circuit anyway.  It was necessary
to unsolder the MAC220-8 and the thermistor using a solder-sucker to free the
leads, unscrew the heatsink from the PCB and lean it over to one side in order
to be able to unscrew the MAC220-8 from it.

After soldering the thermistor back in, replacing the MOV again and powering
up with the triac out, the light bulb glowed slightly for a brief period at
switch on but after that there was no visible illumination while the power
supply worked nicely.  However, the power supply should only work on 220V
with the triac missing.

I extracted the same triac from the leakage damaged H7821 and compared the
two devices.  It turned out that the one that had caused the difficulties
measured about 2.2 megaohms between MT1 and MT2 in one direction only when
out of circuit while the other triac read infinity in both directions.

I decided to fit the good triac into the power supply so that it would then
work on either 110V or 220V as originally designed.  Happily, it still
worked fine after this was done.

If I hadn't come across a similar fault before in a more accessible PSU,
I think I would have had a very hard time tracking down this fault.


Flushed with success, I moved on to look at a H7816 from a DEC 3000/600
Alphaserver.  This one shows little or no signs of life except for a barely
audible click at switch on.  The fuse is not blown and there are no obvious
signs of distress anywhere.

This one is a real pig to work on.  Firstly, the incoming earth connection is
made to the lid of the power supply so when the lid is removed to work on it,
there is no longer any earth connection to the rest of the unit.  A sticker is
thoughtfully placed on the underside of the lid to warn about this situation.
There are also two sub-boards attached to the underside of the lid.  One is a
fan controller circuit (partially obscuring the sticker) which is easily
removed and put out of the way.  The other sub-board contains the mains input
fuse, bridge rectifier, a 110V/220V autosense circuit and what seems to be
either a soft start circuit or less likely, a circuit to cut the power under
computer control.  It is connected to the main board via a plug and socket and
five leads which are only barely long enough to reach.  The plug has to be
removed in order to take the lid off and then 300V DC is no longer fed to
the main board meaning that measurements cannot be taken on the main board
to investigate what might be wrong.  The real doozie is that the sub-board
has a heatsink on it which is directly connected to the live side of the
incoming mains for no good reason that I can see other than to make it
difficult to work on.  Trying to plug the sub-board back in without the lid
in place would leave this live heatsink flopping onto the components mounted
on the main board below.  As well as all this grief, a whole bunch of low
power components are mounted on another board which clipped under the main
board about 10mm away from it and connected to it using three multipin
plug/socket combinations denying access to the print side of the main board
and the component side of the low power board whenever the unit is able to
operate.  There seem to be 20 Ohm load resistors across all of the outputs,
making it difficult to check the output rectifiers and smoothers without
desoldering stuff, in the event that the power supply turns out to be
tripping due to overcurrent.

On a positive note, there are component references on the boards, the
minor boards are single sided, the unit is clean inside and one side
is completely open allowing some access with the lid on (while keeping
away from the live heatsink...)

I took on this machine knowing it had a power supply fault.  How hard
could it be to fix it, I thought :-)  I'm hoping I have an identical
power supply in another machine which I can use to make comparisons to.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.