[cctalk] Re: VM/370 notes

David, Yes that SCREEN2 image is pretty good, since it shows the CMS version and year (1985). An earlier version would be nice, but if that 6.0 stuff is still representative of what the earlier versions would show, that's fine.

Actual contemporary (1970s) photos of screens are, I imagine, hard to find -- anyone taking a Kodak into a server room and getting close up of screens were likely to be arrested for espionage, then hung. Times were different back then!

Mostly this is for a talk in May about multitasking operating systems - time-share existed throughout all of the 1960s, basically becoming an expected aspect/feature of a computer.

Thus this is why it was somewhat laughable to call the early microcomputers as computers - this isn't to belittle the talent on creating home personal computers, but more the "initial public reaction" in early 1970s of going around saying "I'm selling a computer" (it would be almost viewed as false advertisement and you'd get punched in the nose). A "computer" then was some big massive leased equipment. So the early micro-computer pioneers couldn't call it a computer (used terms "intelligent terminal" and such instead), but to be fair they couldn't do time-share either, just not capable enough yet (they were essentially desktop calculators, with a bit of memory). Micros didn't get hardware-accelerated (MMU) multitasking till mid-1980s, thus finally catching up to the time-share systems of two decades prior.

Photos of teletype output of those early operating systems would be nice to find (pre-CRT era), there is one nice contemporary video on CTSS being used in operation (computer room was so loud, they had to go to a different room with the teletype).

-Steve On Sat, Feb 7, 2026 at 1:08 PM David Wade via cctalk<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Steve, > If you mean something like these pics :- > > https://github.com/g4ugm/vm370.source > > which are screen grabs from a terminal emulator connected to the final > release on VM/370 running on the Hercules emulator so the content is > true to life. > If you like them I'll fire up a green screen terminal and take some > photos of the screen > > Dave > > On 07/02/2026 03:51, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: >> Dave, >> >> Page 439 of that document you linked has a nice chart of "integrated >> emulators that run execute under VM/370" - now I do recall one of the >> "famous" things about the prior S/360 was it could emulate 1401 and other >> IBM systems. Then later on, more systems to emulate would be the >> 709-series. Ok, so VM/370 is more like what we might today call a >> Hypervisor? So the "it looks like whatever you want" comment makes >> sense. >> >> I suppose what I'm after is more a visual on the usage of CMS, DOS/VS or >> OS/VS1 ( OS's that one would only use on an S/370 ? ) >> >> I put a couple reference images here on what I have about CTSS and > TOPS-10 >> (CTSS is from a modern-day emulators, TOPS-10 is from one of their > manuals >> so its from in 1970). I see how you mean VM/370 isn't quite the same >> nature (not "just an OS" but an enterprise thing like for airlines, > banks, >> financial brokers -- and the virtualization helped in testing/deploying > new >> systems -- that maybe had newer OS's -- without disrupting operational >> systems?) >> >> https://github.com/voidstar78/OS_NOTES >> >> >> - Steve >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 6, 2026 at 10:00 AM David Wade<dave.g4ugm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 06/02/2026 14:55, Steve Lewis wrote: >>>> Thanks Dave, the 3270 terminal screen makes sense. Or to make use of >>>> the system and resources, you'd remote to it using a 3270. >>>> So it may have been at a time no one thought to snap a photograph of >>>> any of those 3270s in use (not just a "room full of 3270's" kind of >>>> photo - but of the actual screen, showing whatever it was they were >>>> doing; managing tape/disk resources, files, users, or running APL or >>>> something. That's more what I was looking for, when you "used VM/370 >>>> {or remoted into it}, this is what it looked like." >>> Generally thats not what you did with VM/370. You edited, compiled, and >>> ran programs.... >>> >>>> There had to be some kind of installer? Or maybe I'm viewing it wrong >>>> - they (a business) didn't just buy a S/370 then decide what OS to >>>> install. But rather it was a packaged prepared by IBM, so maybe it >>>> was pre-installed with VM/370 and configured to whatever the >>>> arrangement/contract was? >>> For VM you usually got a "starter system" on a tape. There was a >>> different tape for each disk type. The first file on the tape is the >>> standalone disk dump and restore program, DDR. So you IPL (boot) from >>> this tape, and use DDR to restore the starter system to DASD (disk). >>> You usually needed three packs. The first time you IPL the restored >>> starter system it asks you some basic config questions, and you then >>> have a working system that you can use to restore the rest of the >>> VM/370, load and apply service (fixes) , and configure to your exact >>> hardware set-up. >>> >>> I expect at 522 pages this manual which covers install and congigureis a >>> tad bigger than the one for other systems... >>> >>> >>> > https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/VM/370/Release_6/GC20-1801-10_VM370_Sysge… >>> >>>> Or a way to say "when someone used a S/370 {or CMS}, this is what the >>>> console content looked like" (printed, or by that time yea probably >>>> more likely a CRT). >>>> >>> It looked like whatever you wanted. The samples in the previous e-mail >>> are typical... >>> >>> >>>> “The Origin of the VM/370 Time-Sharing System” – R.J. Creasy gives a >>>> little bit of a description on those components CP, CMS, and RSCS. >>>> But no photo/image yet of a terminal with content to identify "yeah, >>>> see they are using a S/370 there" (maybe its listing disk packs, >>>> tapes, memory resources, etc?) I got something like this for the >>>> earlier CTSS and TOPS-10. >>>> >>> pass me what you have for that so I can see what a VM Equivalent might >>> be. The definitive thing on a users 3270 is the status bottom right >>> which on a pukka system which usually reads "VM READ VM/370" but can >>> also start "RUNNING", "HOLDING" "CP READ". >>> >>>> -Steve >>>> >>>> >>> Dave >>> >