It's mostly a problem if there isn't documentation at the place where
the machine is. I've never run into a machine that is really beyond my
experience (my experience so far is PCs and BASIC-based home micros),
but if I ever had to deal with a PDP, I'd have to spend a lot of time
asking questions here and otherwise. Not that I foresee it. PDP will
eventually vanish from industrial applications, just because they will
all eventually be damaged by floods, fires, etc. And companies go
bankrupt, too. I doubt that by the time I am 50 I will run a reasonable
risk of seeing a PDP. Also, I don't know how to _program_ a PC. I know a
bit of BASIC (who doesn't?), enough to write a simple text editor or
something. I'm learning C but am stuck with pointers. I'm going to take
C++ at school starting in the fall. I've tried assembly, and do notice
that it's more straightforward than higher-level languages (I.E. there
are no ambiguous concepts like in C, it's all called what it really is),
but am not much good with
things mathematical. Maybe I'll learn.
>How is this a problem? You learned how to run a PC, programming a
>PDP-8 is at least an order of magnitude simpler.
How many instructions? I believe the Pentium has on the order of 80, not
sure.
>Seriously, the instruction set and archetecture is so simple it's
>downright inviting.
They weren't networked at all? I mean, there weren't instances of
connecting two machines with cables?
>The old machines didn't have to be huge, complex or networked.
>Allison
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Found on Usenet. If anyone wants an 11/750, this looks like a good grab.
It's in Tulsa, OK.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 25 Jul 98 14:48:09 CDT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote:
>>From: jps(a)lor.jrent.com (Jim Strother)
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
>>Subject: Free VAX to good home
>>Message-ID: <1998Jul25.144809@lor>
>>Date: 25 Jul 98 14:48:09 CDT
>>Organization: Lors Gateway
>>Lines: 11
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.236.90
>>X-Trace: 25 Jul 1998 19:38:51 GMT, 208.145.236.90
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!diablo.quiknet.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!news.psd.k12.co.us!newsfeed.frii.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.154.138.15!news.busprod.com!lor!jps
>>
>>I have the following free to a good home.
>>
>>Vax 11/750
>>expansion cabinet
>>2 ra81 disk drives
>>1 tu78 9 track tape drive
>>
>>All you have to do is come get or send someone after it. I am located in
>>Tulsa, OK.
>>
>>Jim Strother
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
At 14:09 25-07-98 -0400, you wrote:
>He Bruce,
>
>What do you figure, does he have a real address? the venix manuals would
>be nice if he exists.
Ahhh, criminys... sorry, Allison (and the rest of the list). I didn't
check to see if he had a real E-mail address.
I would try posting a query to the comp.sys.dec.micro. Chances are the
person will see it.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
< are there hard drives for laptops that are smaller than the 2.5"
< drives? I have a laptop that takes an IDE hdd, but the space is about
Yes, 1.8"
< 3/4 of an inch to small to even fit a 2.5" drive. I vaguely recall
< seeing something about 1.8" drives? Am I hallucinating here or does suc
< a creature exist?
there are hard drive PCMCIA cards the sixe of credit card and something
like 1/4" thick. I vaguely remember storage in the 100-200 mb range.
Allison
At 07:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
>terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did more
>have it built into the mobo? Specifically, do I need to stick this card
>into my IMSAI?
>
I don't remember many ads besides Godbout about active terminators. What
seemed more important was shielding - running ground traces between the
signal lines, at least for all the ads for "shielded" motherboards.
Maybe a few of the lines would be helped by terminations. It was these where
1k pullup resistors wouls be put on cards. 8 cards with 1k resistors would
be 125 Ohms, distributed.
Terminations of longer ribbon cables seemed more important. I remember early
floppy drives with a dip resistor pack (220/330 Ohms?) that you put on the
last or only drive. Whatever happened to this? A few years ago I bought a
1.44 floppy drive and asked about terminations (Did it require or have them?
Controlled by a jumper?) The tech support people looked at me like I was
>from Mars. Doesn't scsi use terminators?
Try your S-100 both ways, and see if it helps or hurts.
-Dave
>It's mostly a problem if there isn't documentation at the place where
>the machine is. I've never run into a machine that is really beyond my
>experience (my experience so far is PCs and BASIC-based home micros),
>but if I ever had to deal with a PDP, I'd have to spend a lot of time
>asking questions here and otherwise. Not that I foresee it. PDP will
>eventually vanish from industrial applications, just because they will
>all eventually be damaged by floods, fires, etc. And companies go
>bankrupt, too. I doubt that by the time I am 50 I will run a reasonable
>risk of seeing a PDP. Also, I don't know how to _program_ a PC. I know a
If people like Allison, Tim.Shoppa, John.Wilson, myself and others have
our way, they won't disappear... I have some 16+ -11s of various types
at home (check the home_systems page off my web page)
>bit of BASIC (who doesn't?), enough to write a simple text editor or
>something. I'm learning C but am stuck with pointers. I'm going to take
>C++ at school starting in the fall. I've tried assembly, and do notice
>that it's more straightforward than higher-level languages (I.E. there
>are no ambiguous concepts like in C, it's all called what it really is),
>but am not much good with things mathematical. Maybe I'll learn.
With older assemblers, it was pretty straightforward. Nowever, with
RISC machines which have pipelines and 'hints' and branch delays, etc.
assembly is a little more difficult. Plus, where the -11 has an
instruction set where you can MOV from memory to memory, memory to
register, register to memory and register to register, the RISC
machines generally forego memory to memory and, like the -8 before
them, require you to move things through a register first...
>How many instructions [on the -8]? I believe the Pentium has on the
>order of 80, not sure.
The -8 had 8 general purpose instructions, but it also had things
called operate microinstructions, in groups, which did multiple
things depending on which bits of the instruction were set. So,
for example, you could clear the AC (CLA) and in a separate
instruction OR the contents of the switch register with the AC (OSR),
or you could combine the two operations into one instructions (since
there were members of the same microinstruction group).
There were also the instructions for the various devices, but they
were pretty much similar in actions, but with different device numbers
encoded in them.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
I would also be interested in the 5140 power supply... maybe a couple
of spares...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
< I meant, which controllers can't correctly read 360K floppies?
None that I know of... it's the 1.2mb and 1.44 cases that can be
problematic(and system dependent).
Allison
< I was digging through some S-100 cards and came upon a Godbout active
< terminator. Do all S-100 buses require external termination, or did mor
No but some would ring so bad that was a solution. In most cases it
was a help.
< have it built into the mobo?
MOBO, mobo, nogo. AH, motherboard! No they are called backplanes dear.
<Specifically, do I need to stick this card into my IMSAI?
If it works as is reliably, maybe not. Some z80 boards really needed
it.
Allison
--KAA15878.901377905/europe.std.com--
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote (after John Rollins):
> >Picked up a nice little HP Series 100 Model 120 45600A and a few hundred
> You were lucky! Most people got stuck with a chicklet keyboard on those.
> You still see ads occasionally for people looking for standard keyboards.
"Chicklet" keyboard? What I've seen are two sizes of keyboard: one
not much wider than the terminal housing that has the QWERTY key
cluster with some function keys at the top and some compressed and
doubled-up keys, and one wide keyboard with the numeric keypad off to
the right.
The narrow keyboard is a bit of a pain to work with because of the
compromises made w/r/t key placement (e.g. the return key is
relatively small), but it's usable and has full-travel keys just like
the wide one.
-Frank McConnell
