Hello, I have a Sun SparcII (RHL 4.2) that has a date problem-- no, he has
plenty of girls, ;) but the time and date keep getting reset on every
boot.. there have also been problems with getting it to boot (kernel shits
itself) and takes 15 or so tries before it boots correctly.. then
sometimes crashes at that point. Any ideas?
Also, I have a Sun 3/60 that I would like to put SunOS or BSD on to use as
my mail server or just to have running.. I need a keyboard, monitor, tape,
external hard disk, and probably media unless I can write to the tapes
>from my SparcII.
Thanks,
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
I spotted several of them this morning. What are they? They have a
separate keyboard and the CRT on the left side of the unit and a 5 1/4" HH
floppy disk drive mounted vertically on the RH side. They're about 18" deep
and 13" tall and 14" wide. The front of the unit hangs out over the front
feet the same way that a Apple Lisa does.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: More Bringing up a CPM
>I've determined that I'm missing the doc's supporting my SMS/OMTI Series-10
>SCSI/SASI (probably SASI) 8" hard disk bridge adapter. Anything detailed
>would be very helpful, I think.
>
>For years the manual was sandwiched between the drive's logic board and the
>Series-10 controller, but now that I need it, it's missing . . .
>
>Oh, well . . .
>
>Dick
>
>
>
Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote:
>
> Dwight,
>
> > My next question is, could someone send me an image of a
> > directory that I could use to build my disk?
> --snip--
> Here is an image of a 2.2 directory from an 8"SSSD disk. Hope it proves
> useful. (It is not Imsai.)
Hi Don
Thanks a lot. As it was, I didn't need to do anything to start
the directory. If it had the original E5's in it, CPM thinks
it is an empty disk. Clever of DR, wasn't it! I'm learning
more about CPM than most people know anyway.
I was able to get a the system to the "A>" late Monday
night. I then transfered some files by my simple serial
downloader into the memory and used the SAVE command
to write them to files. I did this for the DUMP, ED,
STAT and ASM commands. DUMP and STAT seem to work
OK but I'm having troubles with ED and haven't tried
ASM yet.
The ED command has some serious troubles. It allows me to
do "I" and "T" commands but won't do a "L" or "E" commands correctly.
Saving text to a file is one of the most useful parts of
an editor but being able to move around is number 2 or 3.
Since DUMP works, I'll use that to read back what the file
has in it. If not that, I'll make an image file for CCP, BDOS
and CBIOS. I'll then be able to tell where the problem
lies.
I've had some issues with RAM loosing data but I not sure
where the problem is yet. This may be my problem. The
RAM boards I have are some older 4K, 8K and one 16K
static RAM boards that make up the needed 64K ( actually
62K ) by the CPM.SYS file I have.
I have some DRAM boards that I've used with my Poly88.
These are 64K boards and I thought I'd use them but the disk's
DMA doesn't seem to write to them. I'm able to read and write
>from the front toggles, just not from the DMA to the RAM.
Does anyone know what the problem is here? Is there some
timing or pin out issue with DRAMs that would cause this
to happen in a standard IMSAI 8080? I'd really like to use
this DRAM because I trust it more than the statics in the
system, at least until I get things fully functional.
In any case, I think just getting to the A> prompt is
a major mile stone. I had to completely write a boot loader,
CBIOS, disk formatter and serial data transfer to get this far.
My longest to trouble shot problem was the difference
between JNC and JC used with SUB.
Dwight
I've determined that I'm missing the doc's supporting my SMS/OMTI Series-10
SCSI/SASI (probably SASI) 8" hard disk bridge adapter. Anything detailed
would be very helpful, I think.
For years the manual was sandwiched between the drive's logic board and the
Series-10 controller, but now that I need it, it's missing . . .
Oh, well . . .
Dick
Title pretty much says it all.
Over the long weekend (where did it go?) I finally got time to check out
and power up the HP 9000/20 (aka: 9000/520) that recently joined the
collection.
It woke up without incident (tho there is still something rattling around
in the monitor that I have not been able to find yet), but now needs
something to run. You can only look at the "Looking for System" prompt
for so long...
So... (since I know there are at least one or two of these things in this
group) What runs on this critter? And can someone provide copies of some
disks? Diagnostics perhaps? Or dare I think it... Docs??? B^}
I already suspect that I'm going to have to find a hard drive to go along
with the unit to make it really happy, yes?
Obvious by now that I've never worked with this particular unit before?
Thanks!
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives
>>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!
At 09:35 PM 5/17/99 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, 17 May 1999, David Williams wrote:
>
>> I suspect it will take more than an LLF. I've now notice that
>> sometimes when I power it on, it fails the startup tests and never
>> reaches a ready state. Of course maybe an LLF would fix that but
>> I don't know. I haven't been able to get it to access the catalog on
>> the drive though formatting under ProDOS now always claims to
>> work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is
>> pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does
>> anyone know if you used the same Apple II interface card for the 5
>> meg and 10 meg ProFILEs?
>
>Sounds like its dying. Might be time for a little home clean room to
>repair it. Go back and find the dicussion from several months back that
>talked about building a clean box.
Ok, going out on a limb here (not my first time)...
The infamous 'low level format' may indeed address the problem, but it's
not nearly as easy to do in this case as one might expect...
First: a couple of data points about the 'ProFile' drive subsystems.
1) The interface is just an over-glorified bi-directional parallel port!
(witness that to use it with a LISA, you run a straight-thru cable from the
ProFile to the parallel port on the LISA)
2) the drive in the ProFile is a 5 or 10 meg Shugart 4XX series mechanism,
but with an Apple custom logic board installed. So forget just about
everything you know about formatting hard drives...
3) you never directly address the drive in a ProFile, you issue commands to
the logic board in the ProFile, and it talks to the drive...
4) IIRC: one of the power up tests that the ProFile does (it has been a
while since I went thru Apple training on this critter) is a read test on
selected tracks on the drive. If this test fails (due to mechanical
failure or bit-rot) the drive will never come 'ready'
5) There is no inherent 'format' command in the ProFile controller logic.
To enable formatting capability you have to install a special chip
(according to rumour: a Z-80 with a piggyback EPROM) into a vacant socket
on the ProFile logic board, power up the unit and issue a special command.
(I doubt it matters what machine it is connected to at the time)
6) Running the 'format' command from ProDos (LISA office, etc...) does
little more than initialize the directory tracks in a form that ProDos (or
whatever) expects. It does no actual 'formatting' of the drive proper...
(man, where have we heard of THIS strategy before?)
Now, having said that...
It's quite possible that the problem may be little more than bit-rot due to
the degredation of the magnetic domains on the drive platters. (or it
really could be busted, but let's think good thots here) Also, power
failures during writes could honk up the drive real easily...
The real trick here however is coming up with the little format enabler
chip and the proper incantation to mumble at it!
There have been stories of people who have opened up their ProFiles and
found the previously mentioned socket occupied by the magic module, but
last time I looked in mine I was not one of the fortunate (?) ones...
The real downer in this, is that we are all likely to be impacted by this
somewhere along the way...
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
Since I have two 2117F's at home, I'll answer this one...
You wrote...
>And one of these cases where documentation can be TOO old... My one
>vintage HP catalog predates these CPUs by a couple of years. The catalog
>only lists the HP2116.
Your machines are F series, the very last of the 1000 line I believe. The
2116 is one of the first. You've got both ends of the spectrum there ;)
Bear this in mind, memory related cards go in the front card cage, i/o
related cards in the rear card cage. There is no relationship between slot1
in front and slot1 in back. In the front card cage, the top three slots must
be used for a specific card in each slot, in the remaining slots order isn't
important (there are a few exceptions to this). In the rear, order isn't
important except the slot number (octal select code) determines the
interrupt priority of the board. Some OS's in the 1000 line expect certain
cards to be in certain slots. In addition, the OS on your disks was likely
genned to expect a certain card in every slot. I'm at work at the moment, so
if there's any of the following notes I'm not sure of, email me over the
weekend when I'm at home and I can clarify.
> DCPC
Dual Channel Port Controller this is basically a card that provides two
independent DMA channels for any I/o cards in the rear panel. Must go in top
slot, front card cage. Attach ribbon cable.
> 13037 intf
The 13037 is a disk controller for 7900A, 7905, 7906, 7920, and possibly
7925 drives. Different models of the 13037 could also support HP-IB as well
as direct connect style drives. This card should go to a 5 inch tall rack
mount box which contains a microprocessor board and several interface
boards. Cables from the 13037 rack mount box then go to the drives.
> Memory Protect
This is an optional memory protect card. ISTR it has to do with handling
parity errors instead of just halting the cpu. This must go in the front
cage, second slot from the top.
> Grd true in/out
Grd true in/out is an I/o card used for line level interfacing (process
control, etc.)
> M.E.M.
This is a Memory Expansion Module. It was necessary if the machine contained
more that 64k of ram. Bear in mind that it is only usefull if the ROM's that
go with it are in the Firmware accessory board. The firmware accessory board
usually attached to the bottom cpu card and hung underneath it on the back
right. The firmware roms provided some extra instructions for memory
management (ie. setting up paging). This must go in the front cage, third
slot from the top.
> Grd true in/out
Same as above.
> 64k HSM
64k ram card.
> 12747H Microcircuit
The microcircuit interface ISTR is a 40 bit card to interface to external
TTL levels. I'll have to look this up. Might also have been used to connect
an I/O extender box, don't recall at the moment.
> 64k HSM
64k ram card.
>12747H BACI 12966A
The 12966A baci card (buffered async control interface) is an RS232 port for
you. One of the better models, actually.
> 64k HSM 12747H
another 64k ram card.
> 7970 Mag Tape 2
The 7970 mag tape 2 card isn't for a second tape drive, it's the 2nd card in
a two controller set for the 7970 tape drive.
> 64k HSM 12747H
another 64k ram card.
> 7970 Mag Tape 1
The 7970 mag tape 1 is part of a 2 card set for a 7970 1/2 tape drive. the
real number is 13181 or 13183 depending on the model 7970 it went to.
> 64k HSM
another 64k ram card.
> Line Printer
Dunno about the line printer designation, but it should be obvious. probably
gpib interface.
> 64k HSM 12747H
another 64k ram card.
> Time Base Gen
The time base generator is a card used to provide various timing circuits.
It does more than just act as a system clock, but that's the best way to
describe it. Whether a TBG card is needed depends on the OS you load and the
software features (modules) you use with it.
> Mem Contr 2102E F.E.M.
This is the main memory controller for all those 64k ram cards. there is a
ribbon cable to attach it to each 64k ram card.
> Main Logic? (under chassis)
This is the cpu card itself. Look for the firmware accessory board attached
underneath the cpu card in the back right. It holds instruction set
additions typically.
>Machine 2 Front card cage Rear card cage
>
> DCPC
same as above
> Jumper
This was used in the I/o card cage if a card was not present. It just
preserved the interrupt priority chain; normally empty non-adjacent slots
are not allowed (unless you're doing all polling mode without need for
arming the interrupts).
> Memory Protect
> I/O Buffer
> M.E.M.
all same as above
> 8 Chan Mux
I would need a part number, but sounds similar to the 12920/12921 mux
controller. Multiple serial ports for terminals, printers, etc.
> Standard Memories Bus I/O
> (256k memory)
> Standard Memories
> (256k memory)
Not familiar with these, they sound 3rd partyish to me, probably memory...
> Disc Intf 2
the second controller of a two controller set, likely a 13210. This was used
ONLY for 7900A disk drives.
> 256kw 12749H
256kw ram.
> Disc Intf 1
the first controller of a two controller set, likely a 13210. only 7900a
again.
> 256kw 12749H
256kw ram
> Mem Contr 2102E
same as above system
> BACI 12966H
same as above system
> 12821A Disc Intf
I don't recall for sure, but I *THINK* this might be for fixed head disks
(earlier than the 7900A's). 2313 I think? Ahhh.. bad memory in my brain :)
> Time Base Gen
same as above
> F.E.M.
FEM or MEM? in a card cage, I would expect it to be MEM, same as above.
Otherwise, an educated guess would be some type of firmware board.
> Main Logic? (under chassis)
same as above.
>1, 2, 3, 4
Need to look up the part number for those. Possibly PSI's (programmable
serial interface), used to hook up graphics terminals (one DB25 for
keyboard, one DB25 for display).
>I still need to find docs on this critter and the cards.
I have a virtually complete documentation set for the above, sans a few of
the cards.
>After the usual pre-launch checks, all of the (apparently) optional cards
>were removed from the card cages and the units were powered up. Curiously,
>they both act identically in that they seem to have some front panel
>function, but the CPUs seem to be hung pretty hard.
The front panel on the 21mx line is pretty straigforward. A&B are registers,
M is the memory location you want to look at, T is the contents of that
location, P is the program counter, and S is a general purpose status
register. The only thing not intuitive is that only when the T register is
displayed and you press the store switch, the M register is automatically
incremented for you (any other time you use the INC M button). Initially I
found this annoying, but it is handy. Note that the A and B registers are
memory locations 0 and 1 respectively - so they should be the same. As a
test, try clearing register a, set a bit pattern, then press store. Then set
the M register to zero, store, then look at T. It should be the same pattern
you stored in A.
Other important notes for a checkout - upon powerup, look at the very bottom
row of lights (a/b/m/t/p/s). Only one should be lit. If more of them are
lit, it indicates several different problems, the most likely of which is
memory configuration/parity error. If the machine has the power fail option,
deadness upon powerup can mean that the batteries are no longer sustaining
memory. The system disables some functions to alert you of this. There is a
way to clear this condition, but I need to check the manual when I get home.
Another thing you can try is selecting the S register, clearing all bits,
store, then set bits 6 through 11 to octal 13 (doesn't matter if there's a
card in slot 13). Press preset, then IBL. If the overflow light comes on,
nothing was loaded from ROM and you have a real problem. Otherwise... Then
point the M register to 37777 and look at the T register. Instead of the
zeros normally present on power up, you should see the contents of boot rom
loader 00 are present (hit INC M to step up). The changing pattern will tell
you it was able to load the boot loader. The 37777 memory location moves
depending on how much ram is in the system.
Finally, the 2117F should go through a powerup POST type test. Depending on
battery charge (if the power fail option is present) sometimes it can take
20 seconds sometimes 30 minutes or so, but eventually if the system is 100%
you should see the leftmost 5 bits or so on the display counting up as it
checks memory.
Since I'm at work and not at home, I'm reciting all this from memory. I
could have easily left something out or said something wrong. Feel free to
email me over the weekend on anything you have questions about.
>No odd sounds or loss of magic smoke, so an initial suspicion is a
>configuration error common to both units. The card cages only have
>specific card notations on a couple of slots, so there is the obvious
>question of proper card positioning. (no idea if the cages are a parallel
>bus or not)
The machines in question are using HSM type memory, which had a slightly
strange setup compared to the memory subsystems in the other HP systems I
also have (2113B 2109B) and work with more often. There are some real
specifics related to slots and ribbon cables in the front card cage. When I
get home I'll check how my 2117F's (which are running fine) are configured.
Jay West
> I think I have mentioned this before, but at work I have been told that I
> cannot have a disused tape _drive_ decause it has been used to back up
> payroll data. I realise that this is just the over exagerrated paranoia of
Ouch! I wasn't refused the tape drive on these grounds, but I was refused the
tapes. In vain did I try and point out that this drive was never used for
recording computer data - it was a very nice analogue machine used for recording
machine vibrations etc. for later analysis back at the lab...
Philip.
--- PG Manney <manney(a)hmcltd.net> wrote:
>
> >At 02:27 AM 5/31/99 -0400, PG Manney wrote:
> >>I have a friend (Yes, Virginia, I have two friends) who's been a DEC
> >>repairman for many years. He now wants to get rid of the accumulated a lot
> >>of stuff in his barn, and has asked me to help get rid of it.
> >
> >Obvious first question: Where is this barn?
>
>
> Behind his house. Where else? <g> (couldn't resist that!)
>
> In Northern Ohio, about halfway between Cleveland and Toledo. 44846 ZIP.
> Tiny place called Milan.
Woo Hoo! Close enough for a Road Trip! (Columbus is 2 hours south of
Cleveland)
I already put my requests in. The only outstanding question is how long
ago did this guy start picking stuff up. I have an abundance of 1980's
QBus stuff; I'm more interested in the odder stuff.
-ethan
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