test-drb August 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

161 participants
565 discussions

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

ANybody know what a Xeros X967 or X968 is? Is it historically important? ANybody need parts? It seems to be an 8085 based machine, but it's hard to tell for sure, with all of the rust. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

27 years, 1 month

To: Data General Fiends

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I spotted some 8" floppy drives that may have been used with the ECLIPSE. If anyone is interested in these, please contact me via private E-Mail. They are big drive units, two drives in the box, painted this 'airforce' blue color, with these funny 'doors' on them. The serial plates say they're model AF6030. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

27 years, 1 month

Still more PBX stuff.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<[CO wasn't talking to me?] < <Not sure how it determined it, but it sensed the CO wasn't there. <(Minor Network Alarm is what the panel indicated.) Probably what <you said. No loop voltage. Easyist thing to sense. Allison

27 years, 1 month

Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I stumbled across the following link on the zdnet web site <about a lawyer with a MITS Altair 8800b who was awarded <Dell's prize in a contest for the "oldest working PC" : < <http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2317770,00.html < <The computer is going to a museum, and Dell gave <him a new computer. I remember the contest and kept my Horizon and explorere8085 out of the running as I wished to keep them. A PC would not a be a welcome exchange. Allison

27 years, 1 month

Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, we're not quite there yet, though that fellow (what's his name . . . ), the CEO of Oracle, is promoting a situation in which you'd not buy software at all but would simply search for what you wanted, buy it "by the drink" over the net, and run it once, repeating the process, and paying for it each time you use it. I certainly hope that such a scenario is not where we're headed. The technology has been in front of us for some time, and what's prevented this so far is the FPGA vendors' tight hold on how to configure their products. Once that cat's out of the bag, someone will surely try this, since he can then incorporate his configuration generator into his software hierarchy. That will certainly put an end to the question of which CPU runs which application the best, since the application will then be integrated with the configuration of hardware which suits it the best. Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 12:45 PM Subject: Re: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc) >At 11:04 AM 8/20/99 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >>I don't think we'll have to wait long for a situation to arise, in which one >>links to a site on the web, is fed a download of configuration data which >>defines how the system on which one's running is to be defined, then reads >>the code which will be executed on the specifically configured "hardware" >>environment. Instead of the hardware defining how the software must be >>configured, the software will define the way in which the hardware addresses >>its requirements. > >It's already here. The Transmeta CPU could work that way. >Field-programmable gate arrays (Xilinx chips) have existed for >many years, so who knows how they're being used. > >For example, the circa 1992 Video Toaster for the Amiga relied >heavily on these chips to perform real-time video manipulations. >Load a new transition, reprogram the array. > >- John >

27 years, 1 month

M7865 question.

by ebrens＠dds.nl

Hello, It reads 'Unibus 2 word out' on the back, and the DEC module field guide doesn't provide with additional information. What is it used for ? thanks, Erikb.

27 years, 1 month

imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

Nope, what I'm referring to is the retail outlet of a "real" electronics supplier, e.g. Newark, etc. I haven't bought components from RS since the late '70's when we bought some regulators, I think there were several hundred because they were the only ones who could ship them promptly. We found after testing about a hundred, that none of the ones we tested were in tolerance. I have bought nibblers, a soldering iron, a neat little wirewrap tool for the briefcase (discontinued because it was too good) and a solder-sucker from RS since then, notice I remember EVERY item. Not one component is on the list. I'd almost wager that none of their 5% resistors fall within 5%. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 3:56 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> >> The joke is on the one who tries to buy from a "real" elelctronics shop, >> where 1/4-watt resistors cost upwards of a buck . . . and the first item on >> the list costs $100 because that's their minimum. > >That sounds like RatShack, not an electronics shop :-). Over here, >resistors cost 3p (say 5 cents) each in 10-off quantities (0.6W, 1%). > >The only time I've payed nearly a pound for a resistor is when it was >either precision (0.1% ones are a lot more expensive) or high power (50W >metal-cased ones, for example). > >-tony >

27 years, 1 month

imsai 2 (but way OT)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 08/19/1999 5:57:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > But, by 'computer shop', I meant the sort of place that sells no-name PCs We put the internationally awe-inspiring name ACME on ours ;>) > The sort of place that will try to sell you a new printer rather than a > ribbon for your old one. Those places never sell useful spares like fans. I think I know the place you're referring to -- "You're in luck cause we only have one of these babies left . . . it was the floor model . . . my boss told me to find it a good home . . . somebody like you . . . can have it for $$$" Fortunately we have a great relationship with one of these establishments -- if they can't shake all the money out of someone by selling them a new box, they send them to us to repair their old unit. They also don't sell fans, odd cables, etc., but we do, and we sell stuff out of our junk bin every day >from their referrals. I guess they deserve their place in the food chain too. Anyway thanks for the clarification and I'm glad to know you don't paint us all with the same brush ;>) Glen Goodwin ACME Enterprises 0/0

27 years, 1 month

imsal 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 4:58 PM Subject: Re: imsal 2 <snip> >> to claim you have an ALTAIR computer running in your basement then what's >> down there had best be ALTAIR stuff, not just an ALTAIR CPU in a Morrow box >> with a CCS FDC and a COMPUPRO serial board. > >Of course in the 'real world' it was very common to find a mix of boards >in a particular box. > >> >> If you have an Integrand box, I guess you can call your computer an >> Integrand no matter what's in it, since they only made the boxes, right? >> >> I think that's the mentality that drives the eBay prices up. If you have a >> VERY pretty Daimler Benz hood ornament, with Chevrolet wheels, a Ford >> engine, a BMW emblem on the rear bonnet of a Corvair, with a Corvette >> steering wheel, what do you call your car (not that those parts would play >> together) ? For the collector, it's VERY important that all the parts fit, >> not just essentially, but exactly. That means that if IMSAI made one >> (whatever that might be), your system isn't complete without it. > >But most collectors only seem to care about the name on the front... > >Suppose you had an Altair with Altair CPU, RAM, PROM, serial I/O, disks, >etc. And a no-name S100 box with Compupro CPU, Vector Graphic memory, >Micromation disk, Tarbell tape, CASU serial, etc. > >Now put all the Altair cards into the no-name box. And the other cards in >the Altair box. > >Which do you think would fetch the higher price on E-bay? > I would be surprised if the higher bid didn't go for the Imsai box, rather than the original card set, but, if your card set happened to be spotted by a "collector" he'd undoubtedly bid however much it took to get the boards he was lacking, even if he had to buy your whole set. If that was $10k more than the box, well, it depends on things other than your preference and mine. > >> If you restore your '57 Chevy with parts carefully sought out at the >> junkyards within a 1000 mile radius of your home, and with "real" parts and >> real lead in the body work, and original upholstery, etc, it's not the same >> as the one built from whatever after-market parts you could find. It may >> look good, but it isn't "real" is it? > >One point here, though, is that users (who were most often hackers at >that time) did use other cards when the machine was 'new'. It's not like >taking said car and putting (somehow) a modern Ford engine in it. It's like >taking the car and fitting a standard (for the time) tune-up kit - >something that plenty of owners (presumably) did. > >I feel there is a place in a collection for both 'as the manufacturer >intended' and 'as the users generally used' machines. A lot of museums >ignore the latter category, though, which could lead to a mistaken >impression as to what really went on. > You're right about that, Tony, but it's a good idea to keep in mind, at least when dealing with Altair and IMSAI, that the Altair stuff is, for the most part, the worst kind of junk, always was and always will be, yet it was good enough to function, sorta, and only after you fixed it, and, being first to do that, it is the "original" while IMSAI stuff which was, from what I've seen, about as good as any you could get, though the style was definitely "early TTL" style, with one-shots, and enough rough edges, design-wise, to raise your eyebrows from time to time. The difference is easily summed up in that the IMSAI was designed by someone who know how to make a circuit that worked while the guys who designed the MITS stuff only knew how to make a circuit. > Dick >

27 years, 1 month

imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

Tony, we have stores like that too, such as "CompUSA" or Circuit City. Even though their prices are often outrageously high for the "add-ons" such as mice or cables, their system prices are normally in line with other stores. They have a replacement parts/upgrade components counter where things like CPU fans, video boards, etc. are sold, but you have to bring your information with you. What you get there is not reliable. The thing that's insulting is that the prices of these items vary so wildly that one dares not to rely on being able to afford even a simple add-on without first knocking over the liquor store down the street. I saw an ad a couple of days ago while shopping for motherboards, and found a "bare bones" system consisting of a motherboard, CPU (300 MHz K6) enclosure, floppy drive, and power supply, for $100. This was nationally advertised over the web. I don't recall whether there was memory, a keyboard, video card, or a mouse, but I was so overwhelmed, I didn't even think to look. The local discounter wants that much for just the processor IC! Now, in today's high-volume, fast-paced market, I doubt there's any need for one to worry about the power supply wearing out before his hardware becomes obsolete. (These days that's when you can't even give it away any more or about a year, whichever comes first.) The cheapo fans and PSU's we've been kicking around generally last longer than that, and those fellows who have to set the priorities, e.g. high quality quiet fan in your computer vs. $15 per unit in their pocket, have no trouble at all with their decision. That certainly accounts for the presence of such low quality in the average computer. The "real" electronics houses here in the US operate on the notion that they provide what you buy. If you buy fewer than 5k pieces per week, then it's probably more like you buy what they provide, but you get the picture. If, out of the vast number of computer buyers out there, 1% kept them long enough to have problems enough with the fan noise, life, or PSU that they replaced them, grumling loudly as they went, there would be high quality replacements available. Unfortunately, when your fan dies or begins to make lots of noise, that corporate repair/installation fellow comes around and you get a new computer. Not too many average users complain about this. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 3:55 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> > > rating) including shipping, it's hard to get vendors to stock replacement >> > > fans of any sort, let alone good and quiet ones. >> > >> > You don't get them from computer shops. You get them from _real_ >> > electronics shops/supply companies. It just so happens that they also fit >> > PC power supplies ;-). >> >> Tony, I resemble this implication! You have obviously never visited my >> *computer shop* :>) > >Correct, I haven't... > >OK, some shops in the UK sell both computer parts (cases, motherboards, >PSUs, etc) and electronic components. In fact most of the component shops >also sell computer parts. > >But, by 'computer shop', I meant the sort of place that sells no-name (or >worse still non-standard brand-name) PCs, packages software, etc. The >sort of place that will try to sell you a new printer rather than a >ribbon for your old one. Those places never sell useful spares like fans. > >-tony >

27 years, 1 month

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test-drb August 1999