test-drb April 2000

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

159 participants
427 discussions

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Here's another computer up for sell. Good Luck John ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Johnsen <pjj(a)sgi.com> To: <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 11:11 AM Subject: Sony microcomputer > Hello, > > Saw the write-up in the Pioneer Press about > your collection. I have a circa 1982 Sony > SMC-70 CP/M machine I'd like to part with and > I was wondering if you might be interested in > buying it. > > No manuals but it does boot from ROM and runs > Basic just fine. > > Peter > > > -- > Peter Johnsen Tel 651-683-5462 > Applications Engineer FAX 651-683-7482 > SGI pjj(a)sgi.com > 655F Lone Oak Drive > Eagan, MN 55121 USA > -------------------------------------------------------- >

25 years, 1 month

Scanning out-of-print books and documentation

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, I want to start scanning some of the transputer books and manuals that I have. A lot if not all are out-of-print. If I scan them and put them on the net, do I have to worry about copyright laws, etc. Would I get into any trouble?? What is the current policy on this?? I know several of you guys scanned several books/documentation/manuals etc for various machines. Any help in this would be appreciated. Oh, what about old software too. Thanks. Ram

25 years, 1 month

A disturbing conversation about documentation

by spc＠armigeron.com

While not exactly on topic for this list, it does have some relavance I think. I just got done talking with a friend about the lack of documentation in this industry. I mentioned the arguments I thought for it: the ``our competition will steal our ideas'' or ``our hardware/software is so bad we don't want anyone to know about it.'' My friend had another reason: companies are afraid to release documentation because most of it is inaccurate, incomplete, confusing, or just doesn't exist within the company. Or their products use third party vendor parts that themselves, are not documented or require thick layers of NDAs to even see (``I work here and I was told to get a copy of our business procedures.'' ``Are you a manager?'' ``No. I'm an engineer.'' ``Then I'm sorry, but you are not allowed to see our business procedures.'' ``But I work here!'' ``I'm sorry, but they're proprietary, and with proper management approval, you can't have them.'' ``But I was told I have to follow them!'' ``Yes, you do.'' ``But what are they?'' ``I'm sorry, but that's proprietary information.'') My friend even went on to relate a story that happened within his company: FRIEND: Yes, I'd like to use our XYZ chip. COW-ORKER: I'm sorry, but the engineer responsible for the XYZ chip died last year and no one knows how it works or even how to make it anymore. FRIEND: There was no documentation? COW-ORKER: Hahahahahahaha! You haven't worked here that long, have you? -spc (We're doomed! We're doomed I say!)

25 years, 1 month

DEC blanket permission was: Re: Scanning out-of-print books and documentation

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 12, 12:45, Pat Barron wrote: > On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Roger Ivie wrote: > > > > One document that I'm fairly certain is not covered by the blanket permission > > is a copy of the MSCP specification (!) that I have tucked away in a drawer > > somewhere. Is DEC still making MSCP hardware? Everything I've used > > recently has been SCSI. > > > > This is from John Wilson's FTP site, at > ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/README: > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > >From the January 1985 Software Documentation Products Directory (EJ-26361-78), > first page: > > 3. RIGHT TO COPY > > Beginning January 1, 1985, Digital customers are given a right to copy, at > no charge, any Digital Archival Software Documentation Publication > (excluding restricted or third party owned) that we no longer offer for > sale. However, the copyright is retained as the exclusive property of > Digital Equipment Corporation. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > I'm pretty sure the MSCP spec would have fallen under "restricted" ... I'm not at all sure it is. My copy is "MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual AA-L619A-TK Version 1.2 A part of UDA50 Programmer's Doc. Kit QP-905-GZ", and it has no restrictions indicated, apart from the usual copyright notice (1982). On the other hand, Sections 6.1, 6.2, 6.6, and 6.10 are listed in the table of contents as "This section deliberately omitted" :-) I think the Doc Kit was just two parts. Anyone know for sure? The other part I have is "Storage Systems Diadnostics and Utility Protocol AA-L620A-TK Version 1.2 A part of UDA50 Programmer's Doc. Kit QP-905-GZ". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 1 month

stibitz.adder

by hallsf＠alfredtech.edu

For the heck of it, I've tried to design an electro-mechanical binary adder that can automatically do the carry of the one that arises in 1 + 1 = 10. Of course, you reply, "George Stibitz's already did that in 1937 as you see here..." http://www.toronto-montessori.on.ca/bsutherland/electricity/stibitz.html But hey: this is retrocomputing, after all, and I'm not trying to duplicate Stibitz--my aim is to come up with an electro-mechanical binary adder architecture that's even simpler than his 2 switches, 2 bulbs, 2 batteries, and 2 relays version. I think I've done it using 3 switches, 4 bulbs, and 1 battery. Yes, still eight components but because it lacks the relays, I think it's definitely simpler and therefore a kind of retro-breakthrough. And yes, mine does carry the one for 1 + 1 = 10. Feel free to try building this (or better it if you can with even fewer components). But I do have a stupid question for everyone that exposes the holes in my education: if my adder can successfully do all of the below calculations but no more 0 + 0 = 0 0 + 1 = 1 0 + 10 = 10 0 + 11 = 11 1 + 0 = 1 1 + 1 = 10 1 + 10 = 11 10 + 0 = 10 10 + 1 = 11 11 + 0 = 11 have I constructed a 1-bit binary adder or a 2-bit binary adder? Thanks, S.F. Hall

25 years, 1 month

Dallas battery replacement -- what is it?

by kla＠helios.augustana.edu

Forgive me for asking, but would someone please reply OFFLINE to me with an answer to this question -- what is this Dallas battery replacement that a bunch of notes were about? I somehow missed (did not read) the start of it, and just to educate my mind (put it at rest), I would like to know what you are in fact talking about. Why should I know about this? Thank you. Cheers. Kevin * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent the administration of Augustana College.

25 years, 1 month

OT Comments -- Unix documentation / speed question

by kla＠helios.augustana.edu

This is clearly off-topic compared to 10-year+ old computers, so reply off-line if so inclined. (An observation -- since this list moved to its new site, the topics of discussion, plus the volume, has clearly taken a turn -- much for off-topic notes, such as my own, plus much more opinionated notes. A trend I've observed on other lists that moved their location. I wonder why that is so....) My few opinions include: While I was never a VMS or other DEC programmer, and hence never saw the "orange" or "gray" walls of documentation, I was for a time a Sun/Unix programmer. So I did see Sun's "green and white" wall of SunOS documentation -- about 3-4 four feet long of four- inch binders. It was a very good resource that was quickly augmented by a selected few Unix administration third-party books. With later version of SunOS, as well as the early Solaris releases, this same material was on a CD as postscript files -- another useful source (their so-called AnswerBook, which I never did actually install per se, but just read it directly using pageview PS viewing software). They mucked it up however with the release of Solaris 2.6, changing the AnswerBook format and making it much less useful. At the same time they significantly modified the Unix install procedure, using instead of a quick-loading mini-root from CD a very slow loading graphic shell -- yuck. Moves by Sun that I was thrilled about, despite their making Solaris cheaper for so- called developers. I have RedHat Linux 6 and I am not happy. I was very dismayed to see how big the loaded version was, which very quickly filled 400+ MB of material onto my 540MB hard drive with just basic stuff, and it seems to run slow to boot (including very slow to boot-up). In contrast, when I earlier played with FreeBSD (2.2.5), that seemed to be a lean and mean, fast running system on a comparable 486-33 that I have the Linux on. Software bloat is most definitely an issue -- and unless you REALLY KNOW Unix, it is tough (like for Win9x) to know which files can be trimmed away. And reliance on package installs/removes doesn't help, as they don't tell you of Unix dependencies in their documentation, hence a growing problem like for WinDoze. Not good I think. Now to my question -- Has anyone actually done an speed comparison between Linux, FreeBSD, and NetBSD? My impression (from limited exposure) is that BSD-based kernel versions run much faster (and are generally smaller in size) than comparable SYS-V or Linux systems. That comment stems from comparisons of SunOS and Solaris on comparable Sun systems, followed by FreeBSD and Linux on comparable 486 systems. In particular, I would like to know how FreeBSD compares to the more open (cross-platform) implementation in NetBSD. This is clearly off-topic, so reply offline. Thanks. Cheers. Kevin * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent the administration of Augustana College.

25 years, 1 month

Apple Mac (was: !Re: Nuke Redmond!)

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

>(I'm answering to Tonys mail, since I never recived Charles') > >I got a somewhat different momory on this topic. Back when >the Mac was new, it was like a 180 Degree shift in Apples >information policy. In my view Apple did anything to hinder >developers. And that'S not only my opinion - back then I was >part of a 'gang' of A][ freaks, and of course we where interested >in the Mac, but beside the deadly high price for the Mac, >the even higher costs of documentations and the lack of a >real choice in programming language was prohibitive. With >the Apple ][ you recived a full machine and OS description >free of additional charge - for the Mac with a price, at least >double to tripple the price of an A][ you go _nothing_, you >rather had to spend again almost again the money for an A][, >just for documentation and very minimalistic tools. And if >this isn't enough, you had to sign a contract with Apple to >get all the stuff - you know, they didn't want to sell just >to geeks anymore. Only two of us did jump onto the Mac - all >other stayed with the A][, and eventualy became IBM-PC guys. >IBM did exactly the same as Apple with the A][ - give information >to the people - yes, they charged, but way less than Apple, >and you don't need to sell your soul - if your able to tell >the Name of the document you got it. Well, yes, if we walked >into the IBM store (Aeh, not store... royal dependance:) at >this time, we didn't get the same 'audience' as 'real' customers, >but we told what we want (i.e. an order number) and we get >it fast and as we want it. > >And don't tell me about the complex informations etc. At this >Time I was already doing some (truly small) jobs with Xerox >systems - IMHO a way better integrated system as the Mac ever >did become. It should have been the responsibility of Apple >to give the developers info out the easy way. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >VCF Europa am 29./30. April 2000 in Muenchen >http://www.vintage.org/vcfe >http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe Well, since everyone on the list has thrown in their two (or more) cents, I finally feel it is my turn. Anyway, Hans has a good point going here, Apple did with the Macintosh what TI tried to do when the TI-99/4A was out: try to block out third party developers. What can we learn from this? Very simple, never try to tell people they can't develop hardware & software for a machine, because that will only give people the extra push they need to develop stuff for a computer. But this is something I have noticed: We all know how many PC manufacturers are abound (maybe too many), by there are how many Macintosh clone manufacturers? (I can't think of any off the top of my head) And the Government is jumping in Microsoft's back for being monopolistic? They might want to look on the other end of the spectrum. (Now I can understand why IBM & Motorola are pissed off at Apple for not letting clone manufacturers use G3/G4's in their Maclones.) If you ask me, (and so begins my conspiracy theory) I think the Microsoft Antitrust Trial was a sham, because why would CEO's of major software houses go against Microsoft when, in most cases, their software is flying off the shelves? You do not bite the hand that feeds you, unless the hand being bitten is not feeding you! If you ask me, I think only one man had something to gain from this, his name is Steve Jobs. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. ____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 1 month

Poll: Best *monochrome* laptop display

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

What is, in your opinion, the best laptop with the best monochrome screen. If I was asked I'd definitely say the Macintosh Portable. I'd say this because this computer was one of the first to use active matrix screen technology. Do remember, in 1989 that was more or less new technology! I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to limit this to laptops with monochrome screens. The last time I did a poll on this list (Top 10: Best laptop keyboard) it went totally off. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. ____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

25 years, 1 month

Lunch, the HP Way

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Found elsewhere and forwarded for your possible amusement; a damn sight more OT than why not to ever get in a TraumaHawk or a Lance... (No, I wouldn't either....) ;} ---------- Forwarded message ---------- This is the story of a different kind. No melting CPU's, no screaming disc drives, just the kind of psychological torture that scars a man for life. I had a 9:00 meeting with my sales rep. I needed to buy an entire new series 70, the works. He said it'd take about an hour. Three hours later, we'd barely got the datacomm hardware down on paper, so he invited me downstairs for lunch. This was my first experience in an HP cafeteria. Above the service counter was a menu which began... MMU's (Main Menu Units) 0001A Burger. Includes sesame-seed bun. Must order comdiments 00110A seperatly 001 Deletes seeds. 002 Expands burger to two patties. 00020A Double cheeseburger, preconfigured. Includes cheese, bun and condiments. 001 Add-on bacon. 002 Delete second patty. 003 Replaces second patty with extra cheese. 00021A Burger Upgrade to Double Cheeseburger 001 From Single Burger. 002 From Double Burger. 003 Return credit for bun. 00220A Burger Bundle. Includes 00010A, 00210A and 00310A 001 Substitute root beer 00311A for cola 00310A. My eyes glazed over. I asked for a burger and a root beer. The waitress looked at me like I was an alien. "How would you like to order that, sir ?" "Quickly, if possible. Can't I just order a sandwich and a drink ?" "No sir. All our service is menu driven. Now what would you like ?" I scanned the menu. "How big is the 00010 burger ?" "The patty is rated at eight bites." "Well, how about the rest of it ?" "I dont have the specs on that, sir, but I think it's a bit more." "Eight bites is too small. Give me the Double Burger Upgrade." My sales rep interrupted. "No, you want the Single Burger option 002 'expands burger to two patties'. The double burger upgrade would give you two burgers. "But you could get return credit on the extra bun," the waitress chimed in, trying to be helpful, "although it isn't documented." I looked around to see if anybody was staring at me. There was a couple in line behind us. I recognized one of them, a guy who merely mowed me down in the parking lot with his cherry-red '62 Vette. He was talking to some woman who was waving her arms around and looking very excited. "What if... we marketed the bacon cheeseburger with the vegetable option and without the burger and cheese ? It'd be a BLT!" The woman charged off in the direction of the telephone, running steeplechases over tables and chairs. My waitress tried to get my attention again. "Have you decided, sir ?" "Yeah, give me the double burger- excuse me, I mean the 00020A with the option 001. I want everything on it." She put me down for the Condiment Expansion Kit, which included mayonnaise, mustard and pickles with a option to substitute relish. "Ketchup." I hated to ask. "I want ketchup on that, too." "Thats not a condiment, sir, it's a Tomato Product." My sales rep butted in again. "Thats not a supported configuration." "What now ?" I kept my voice steady. "Too juicy. The bun can't handle it." "Look. Forget the ketchup, just put some lettuce and tomatoes on it." The waitress backed away from the counter. "I'm sorry, sir, but thats not supported either, the bun can take it but the burger won't fit in the box. The sales rep defended himself. "Just not at first release." "It is being beta-tested, sir." I checked the overhead scree. Fries, number 000210A, option 110. French followed by option 120, English. "What the hell are English Fries ?" I turned to the sales rep. "Chips they call them. We sell a lot of them." I gave up. "OK, OK just give me a plain vanilla Burger Bundle." The confused the waitress profoundly. "Sir, Vanilla as an option is configured only for series 00450 Milkshakes." My sales rep chuckles. "No ma'am, he just wants a standard 00220A off the shelf. I wondered how long it had been on the shelf. I didn't ask. "Very good, sir." The waitress breathed a sigh off belief. "Your meal is now on order. Now how would you like it supported ?" "Support ?" She directed me to the green shaded area at the bottom of the menu, and I began a litany with my Sales Rep that I'll never forget. "Implementation assistance ?" "You get a waiter." "Implementation analysis ?" You tell him how hungry you are and he tells you what to eat." "Response Center Support ?" "He brings it to your table." "Extended materials ?" "You get refills." I stuffed some money at the waitress and told her to take it. She gave me my check on three sheets of green-bar paper. I studied it on my way to the table, and decided it'd pass as an emergency napkin. Table ? My Sales Rep had been bright enough to order us a table. He hadn't been bright enough to check on a delivery date. The table waiter slouching in his corner surveyed the crowded room, looked at me and said "Two weeks. But I can get you a standalone chair by the window right away." I handed him the tray. A woman rushed up to me with two small cups of chile and sauerkraut for the hot dog somebody else had ordered. The room began to grom dim, my eyesight faded... I woke up clutching the water-glass at my bedside table. It was five AM, four hours till my meeting with HP. I had had a vision, I did what it told me to do. I dialed my office, and I called in sick. by Stephen Harrison and Noel Magee -- end of forwarded message --

25 years, 1 month

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test-drb April 2000