Especially if the batteries in the calculator are dead ;)
(BTW, my 14-year old son has three slide rules and was quite interested in
the giant one up on the wall in a hall at his high school.)
-----Original Message-----
From: One Without Reason [mailto:vance@ikickass.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 2:41 PM
To: Classic Computers Mailing List
Subject: Re: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers)
> > Good point! But doesn't that make it interesting now in 2001? I mean
the slide
> > rule
> > compared to the electronic caluclator makes the slide rule seem like a
lousy design.
> >
> > Aren't slide rules interesting today.
I can do a lot of things faster on a slide rule than an electronic
calculator.
Peace... Sridhar
On November 10, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> > The M2322K and family are indeed standard 8" form factor drives.
> > They're not called "Eagles" though, as far as I'm aware.
> Uuups. Sorry. I thought that Eagle and Super Eagle where names for
> product lines, not for two specific drives.
>
> > I really like those drives.
> The (Super) Eagle or the later 8" drives? In the case of the 8" drives
> you are the first person that I hear talking nice words about that
> drives. The most words I heared about the 8" drives are like: "Reformat
> them at least once a year, or you will loose your data."
The Eagles more so than the 8" drives. I've used a few of the 8"
drives on larger Suns but didn't have great luck. Good performance
though, especially on the Xylogics 7053 and 753 controllers.
> I know. My first QBus disk system was a QD33 with two 9" D2363 drives
> from NEC. Very impressive. The first time I simply puted one drive on
> top of the BA123. When the drive begun to move its heads, the machine
> (around 100kg with the drive!) begun to shake. A big smile run acros my
> face when I noticed that. Not to forget that incredible sound! :-)
Oh yes! I used a few NEC D2352H drives. Those were sweet!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL
> Adam was made in God's own image, not that of a monkey.
My only dispute with Adam and Eve (and if anyone wants to have a
theological debate with me, that is fine, but lets do it civilly and OFF
LIST, as I can wage arguments for and against the existence of god)...
My dispute is, according to the King James bible (I am specifying a
version, as there are many, but the King James is the one that seems to
have been adopted by the mass of Christianity), God made Adam. Then God
made Eve. Then Adam and Eve had two sons, one killed the other and then
was banished to a far away land.
Now the obvious problem is, where did the rest of humanity come from...
the obvious answer, Adam and Eve had additional children that just
weren't documented. I don't have a problem with that. What I have a
problem with is, Cain returns to Adam and Eve... with a wife and
children. But if Adam, Eve, and Cain were the ONLY people on Earth when
Cain was sent to a far away land... where did he find a wife to have
children with?
And of course, God can be "proved" and "disproved" (there is actually no
one proof one way or the other that has stood up to all tests as far as I
have found) with no interaction with the bible, which was written by man,
and thus prone to man's interpretation and man's errors in omission, or
embellishments, so the whole story of Adam and Eve has no ultimate
bearing on the existence or lack there of of God, and in fact, can safely
be disregarded as "folk lore" without damaging the underlying belief
structure of God.
And that is all I will say on this on list (sorry, but theology debates
can get very heated very fast and aren't usually a good topic for open
public debate... although they can be a very interesting philosophy topic
when rationally discussed in a small open minded civil group.)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
In a message dated 11/10/01 8:11:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jhellige(a)earthlink.net writes:
> The seller has gone so far as to pull the deflection coil and
> flyback transformer from the tube, as well as seperating the cables
> and other small items. I don't agree with the destruction of a
> functional machine like this but I don't see how the seperate
> listings could be justified from the fee versus income of each of the
> smaller items.
>
>
I, too, was surprised by how many bits it is in, 34. I plan on following the
sale to see what he does get.
One of the things I noticed about the sale is that the seller is in Ketchikan
Alaska. This is about one of the most expensive places in the US to ship out
of. It could be prohibitive in cost to ship an entire Lisa. Most of the parts
could be shipped priority mail however, at a fixed cost.
>From reading the sellers feedback and reviewing his shipping charges I
suspect his handling charges are a significant part of the additional
charges. The more pieces he sells the better off he is.
I also notice his regular business is concrete and scaffolding. His eBay
sales are a sideline.
Paxton
Astoria, OR
Here's something that HP9825 owners may find useful.
The HP9825 is covered by US patent US4075679 Feb 21 1978.
The patent gives a full description of the HP9825 including schematics,
processor description and internal schematic, flow charts, memory
maps, data structures etc....and a source listing !!. (600 pages total)
Patent is available from http://gb.espacenet.com as scanned images
free of charge.
I've typed up all of the source and assembled it with no errors.
Assembler is based on HP21XX assembler by Jeff Moffatt at
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100. Email me for the HP9825
source and assembler C source.
Chris Leyson
I just posted the paper I gave at an archaeology conference in Vienna,
Austria, earlier this week.
It's titled, "The Valley of Lost Data: Excavating Hard Drives and Floppy
Disks" and was written with Christine Finn, author of _Artifacts: An
Archaeologist's Year in Silicon Valley_ (http://www.artifactsthebook.com).
You can find it here:
http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/content.pl?id=004
Abstract:
This paper explores some ideas concerning computers as repositories in the
sense of archaeological sites containing data - objects, bodies and so on.
The authors, who are both involved in computer history (one an
archaeologist and writer on the subject, the other a leading collector and
curator of vintage computers in the US) will consider the ways in which
material in a computer may be accessed in the manner of evidence extracted
>from sites in a more orthodox archaeological situation.
The paper will look at the type of data stored, the hardware and software
implicated, and the ways in which it can be retrieved. They will discuss
issues concerning the ethical retrieval of such data and the time-frame
involved in the transformation of material to a state of inaccessibility.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
In a message dated 11/10/2001 10:34:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
allain(a)panix.com writes:
<< Since this is an unmoderated list you should think of
off topic posts as taking the time of not One moderator
but that they take up all of OUR time, tossing them.
I Used to pre-read things in case something useful
coming up, now I don't really have the time. I noticed
things getting really bad on Thursday so I evaluated Friday
for off topic... Worse offenders at the top.
Apologize and stop please. >>
will the offenders get the molten iron treatment?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of SP
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 1980 2:38 PM
> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: AT&T Unix for the 3Bx series
>
>
> Hello. Somebody knows where can be obtained a complete copy
> of the Unix System V manuals and software that came with the
> AT&T 3Bx series ? I search one (repeat, software and manuals)
> for the 3B2/400, or even the 3B1.
>
> By the way, I should like to know if somebody have for sale/trade
> one AT&T 3B1 or another AT&T unix machine with software and
> docs.
I have complete AT&T 6300+ computer with ATT Unix System 5/Release 2 (?) I
believe. It has all the user manuals, and software disks. There are a bunch
of them. I would trade or sell this system if you're interested. I'm in
Seattle.
E.
General comment,
Most 8" systems were expected be and behaved reliably and have
at least 250k of space.
Most 5.25" systems could be reliable but, often weren't. I'll restrict
comments to 5.25" for the later reason.
Most of the complaints I've had with disk systems be they Apple or not
were often in this order.
1- Drives (SA400 was pure garbage!!!)
2- horribly botched controllers (TRS-80 without mods)
3- software such as disk drivers that would hang if no media or errors
4- floppy drives/controlers that would "bite" the media on power up or
down.
meaning it would write trash due to no write locks.
5- not enough space
The apple-II was plagued with #1 and somewhat with #3 depending on
OS and definately #4. Space was a problem for many users(#5)
Trash-80 was 1 through 5 example.
NS* mostly #4 had to be watched if the drives were seperately powered and
earlier units were SA400 (#1 problem). The SD controller while bullet proof
was
space poor at 90k per drive (#5).
CCS used 8" disks and reliable controller. It was however prone to #4.
Many S100 system that used 8" drives and the better 5.25 drives fell
in this realm of reliability though most with 5.25 were pretty cramped
until 360k(DD) or 720->780k(QD aka two sided DD) formats were common.
Of the most reliable my AmproLB+, Kaypro 4/84 with Advent turborom,NS*
(both SD and DD) and most of the post 1981 systems in the commercial
systems space. My expectations of reliable were set by minicomputers
long before micros I'd worked with where if the disk didn't work it was
something I did wrong.
Of all, my opinion is that floppies were ok but the first real improvement
was the 3.5" drives(720k and 1.44m generation) with the power fail logic
on board. They offered good storage, small size, lower power, good
reliability
and quieter than the whole lot.
Allison
In a message dated 11/8/2001 5:06:19 AM Central Standard Time,
foo(a)siconic.com writes:
> > problem either. I know there is some kind of problem relating to the
> > duodisk and disks getting trashed (anyone know details?) but nothing
> > ever related to the display.
>
> I used and continue to use a Duodisk on my APple //e system and I can't
> recall ever having a disk get mysteriously trashed so I don't know of what
> you speak.
>
I do remember reading something of a faulty/out of spec component inside the
duodisk that would cause some issues with the floppy drives but like I said,
coming up 404 on it. Think I'll ask in comp.sys..... and find out for sure.
clearing the HYPE about bioterrorism
www.formatc.org/terrorism.htm
