test-drb December 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
1096 discussions

6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 1:16, Ben Franchuk wrote: > CLeyson(a)aol.com wrote: > <snip> > > Here is the code from Numerical Recipies for an insertion sort (Fortran and C) > <snip> > Do they have the "Small C Compiler" for the 6502? I know you can get a > Z80 or 8080 > compiler under CP/M. Note the version #1 does not have for or && > instructions. It wouldn't really be fair to use a compiler for the code to compare processors. You'd end up testing the relative merits of two compilers as much as testing the processors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 1 month

ROM preservation

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 22, 18:06, CLeyson(a)aol.com wrote: > Neil Cherry writes: > > > I really like the Dataman S4, my friends use it pretty heavily in a > > very unfriendly environment. > > When the battery goes flat so does the processor so to speak and you can't > turn on the battery charge electronics ! You have to take the case apart and > "hot wire" the battery. I've always thought of the Dataman as an overpriced > toy. I've used S4's quite a lot, and I seem to recall there's a way to deal with that without opening it up. I've certainly recharged them from totally flat/won't turn on. As for price, they're about the same as other comparble devices, at least in the UK. And they can do PALs GALs serial PROMs and other mildly exotic things. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 1 month

Multitech/Acer Micro-Professor info WTD

by philpem＠bigfoot.com

Hi, I've managed to acquire a few Multitech Micro-Professor printers and I'd like to know just how the heck to use them. I've managed to partially decipher the schematic, but I can't get the *ing ROM to dump. I've got it hooked up to a 74HC4040 12-bit binary counter and a Microchip PIC16F874 microcontroller. The hex data the PIC snaffled from the ROM contains some instructions, but most of it is filled with zeroes. Anyone got a ROM dump >from the "PRT-MPF" or "PRT-MPF-IP" boards? All my boards appear to be later-version ones, with Fujitsu 2732 EPROMs onboard. Also, has anyone got scanned copies of the MPF-IP (Micro-Professor mainboard) user's guide, monitor ROM dump, memory map, schematics, etc? I'd love to try my hand at writing an MPF emulator, but I don't have an MPF in my collection. I'd also like to get hold of one of each of the following: Synertek SYM-1 Rockwell AIM-65 (with printer) MOS KIM-1 Ideally, I'd also like the manuals, but if they're AWOL it doesn't matter too much - I'll just snaffle them from Rich Cini's webpage and print them off :-) BTW, the MPF printers seem to be quite plentiful - Greenweld UK appear to have plenty in stock. I've also got the Technical Reference for the Seiko Instruments MTP201-20B printer module that Multitech used on the MPF printer - just in case anyone's interested :-). There's only one minor thing about them - do NOT, under ANY circumstances, activate the head for longer than 1.5mS - it WILL burn out. Just out of interest, what sort of printer mech does the AIM-65 use? I'm not condoning the destruction of a perfectly good AIM-65 just to find this out, but I would like to know (in case anyone has a parts list for the AIM). Thanks again. -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

24 years, 1 month

M8650 async board problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

I've fixed it. On Dec 20, 19:36, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete wrote: > > Now I'm really puzzled. After spending the evening playing with my > > serial board, and armed with the pinouts this time, I still have an > > interrupt problem. > Be warned DEC can be confusing here. For example on the schematics, pin 8 > of the FF is shown as Q and pin 9 as Q/. But that's because the D input > on pin 12 has an inverting 'bubble'. And of course the Set and Reset pins > are therefore the other way round to what you'd expect. The confusion comes mostly from the Maintenance Manual. Thanks to David Gesswien for scanning the KL8-E printset, and Tony's description of the pinout labelling, I worked out what should be happening. > That's the problem, I think. DEC's data bus is active low. Or that's how > it appears to me. Indeed, and that's what I expected. The Handbook doesn't show the data bus signals as active low, whereas it does secifically show 'L' after other active-low signals. Nevertheless, like most other open-collector type busses, the Omnibus is active low. > > Should I just swap the connections to the SET and CLR, and Q and not-Q on > > the 7474? Or am I missing something? > > No (!). It worked once as it is now, so it can work again. Find out if > you can ever make the Q/ output of that FF low, and if not, why not. Are > you getting a pulse on the clock pin when you execute a KIE instruction? > What is the D pin doing? They all seemed to be doing something, just not necessarily the *right* something, when I first mailed the list. I wasn't sure it actually *had* worked properly; I wondered if there could be an ECO missing. Certainly it hadn't worked for a long time, and presumably that was why someone had cut the INT RQST L track a long time ago. However the fault, for those who're still reading, wasn't really the M8650 itself. There were two problems. At some point, I had unplugged the serial cable from the Berg connector, so there was noise on the serial input, which upset the diagnostics. The second problem was that the PSU +5V was down to about 4.5V, which isn't great for TTL. I'd checked the voltage when I reassembled the machine, but it didn't have a full complement of boards in it at that time, and the additional load made it droop due to several not-too-tight connections between PSU, power cables, and backplane. I've since cleaned them up extra carefully, and tightened the connections, and readjusted the PSU to give 4.9V on the front backplane and just over 5V on the rear one (the difference is due to different loads on the two parts). Now KIE with AC11=0 turns interrupts off, as does CAF and the CLEAR switch, and KIE with AC11=1 turns them on, and it passes all the diagnostics. Oh, and FOCAL 69 runs fine :-) Now onward to OS/8 and some RX01s... Thanks to everyone whose suggestions or websites helped me get this far: David, Kevin, Tony, Allison, Ethan, Doug, Zane, the other Kevin, and Nabil. And probably others I've forgotten. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 1 month

ROM preservation

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Neil Cherry writes: > I really like the Dataman S4, my friends use it pretty heavily in a > very unfriendly environment. When the battery goes flat so does the processor so to speak and you can't turn on the battery charge electronics ! You have to take the case apart and "hot wire" the battery. I've always thought of the Dataman as an overpriced toy. Chris Leyson

24 years, 1 month

ROM preservation

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 21, Christopher Smith wrote: > I've been thinking recently that I should possibly get a ROM reader/writer > so that I can preserve the ROMs out of all my old parts, and I was wondering > whether anyone had some experiences (good or bad) with any different > programmers? > > Which programmers are good, which aren't so good, and why? If you're serious about programmable devices, Data I/O is the only real choice in my opinion. The company's policies leaves a bit to be desired...their software updates are prohibitively expensive, and it's nearly impossible to use their earlier programmers without docs because you need to translate chip part numbers to "device numbers" to enter into the programmer...but other than that the boxes are great. I have a Data I/O 2900 that I adore. I highly recommend that model, or its big brother, the 3900. > Where is the best place to get one, and which is the best to get on a tight > budget? eBay. Sure, everyone here poo-poos eBay, but face it...it's where you can get anything you want, any time you want. > What about making your own? (Note that I think this may be an interesting > project, but I'd really rather put my time into other things right now, so > this is near the bottom on my list of options...) It's fun, and certainly practical...See early literature by Steve Ciarcia for examples of some simple ones. > One called "Leaper 3" interests me because of its ability to copy one ROM to > another without any kind of computer hookup, which I imagine might be > useful, but I know nothing else about it. Ahh, a "real" device programmer. :-) I despise those dumb things that can't do anything unless connected to a PeeCee running Windows...totally useless to those of us who use real computers and don't allow Windows boxes in our homes. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 1 month

Sellam in the news...

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>Hey, cool! Any chance of getting a copy >sent to me for my vanity file? http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opbooks.jsp?id=ns232110 Antonio

24 years, 1 month

Fwd: F/S: Atari Model CX-2600 and More

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I don't know what it's worth, but I'm posting it in case it's a decent deal. Doc From: "Bill" <WVIVERETTE(a)houston.SPAMrr.com> Newsgroups: houston.forsale,houston.wanted,austin.forsale, tx.forsale,misc.forsale.computer,misc.forsale-computers Subject: F/S: Atari Model CX-2600 and More Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:51:11 GMT Vintage 1978 Video Computer System by Atari Model CX-2600 Serial Number 8150545 Woodgrain 6-switch model Good Working Condition Includes: Original Box 8 games (4 with manuals) 4 Joysticks (2 work fine, 2 work some) 3 Paddle Wheel Sets (6 paddles - 3 work, 3 don't) AC Power Adapter TV RF Connector 1981 Atari Game Catalog Looks from e-Bay that it should bring $50-$70 Also, another entire 4-switch System if you want TWO! E-mail if interested. Pictures available. Available in Houston, TX Will ship if buyer pays shipping and insurance

24 years, 1 month

Unidentified 80-pin 32M modules

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Hi. The shop I buy a lot of custom stuff from gave me (not free, on spec) some 80-pin RAM modules. Mel thought they would run in the VS4000/60, and the form-factor is identical. They seat perfectly in the memory slots, and the locator-pin holes are right. Except the Vax won't boot at all with that memory installed. I've looked around on the web, and can't identify them. There are 2 paper labels: a QC label with 2 lines, the first line varies, the second line is the same on all: UNI00-20533-064 and a small label with what looks like a DEC/Compaq part number: 33522947-001 Does anybody know what those are? and/or need them? Doc

24 years, 1 month

6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

When you get over it... Talking about 20mhz 65C02s and other "fast" parts that didn't exist when even the z180 (orginally 64180) was introduced is equally bogus. A Pentuim anything running a Z80 emulator is still emulation and not native silicon. Now cut the crap. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, December 21, 2001 7:06 PM Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >We went through all this a couple of years back under the same heading. If the >Z235980 at 234 THz is code compatible then, if I understand you correctly, it IS >a Z80, right? Even though the Z180 won't fit in a Z80 socket, you'd sell it as >a Z80 anyway, right? Even though it didn't even exist back when it mattered, >you still insist it's a Z80, right? > >My Pentium executes the Z80 code just fine at about 75x the speed of of a Z80. >Does that mean it's a Z-80? > >We're comparing CHIPS, not philosophical constructs. If it IS a Z80, or Mostek >3480, or something else EXACTLY a Z80, i.e. built under the license, >pin-compatible, code-compatible, etc. then MAYBE it's germane to this >discussion. No chip that isn't a pin-compatible substitute commonly referred to >as a Z80 back in the days when the Z80 mattered is germane to this topic. If it >won't plug into the socket of a Z80, FORGET IT, because it's not a Z80. If >that's too difficult for you, then please ask an adult why a 47-ohm resistor >isn't the same thing as a 75-ohm resistor. > >I'm sure glad you're not trying to sell parts any more, Allison. I'd hate to >have to argue with you that the choke you're trying to pitch isn't a diode. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ajp166" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 4:24 PM >Subject: Re: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) > > >> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> >> >> >There are lots of things that you could compare, but the first things >> you've got >> >to leave out are the ones that aren't a Z80, which immediately deletes >> the Z180, >> >and Z280. The Z80 is not around any more than the 6502 is around. >> There are >> >> >> Why? they are still z80 core and code compatable. While they add things >> like >> serial IO, timers and MMU they are Z80, maybe more so than 65C02. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > >

24 years, 1 month

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test-drb December 2001