> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com]
> > Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with
> OpenWindows (OpenLook),
> Nope. I've used OpenWindows, hate it, would rather run twm
> if that's
> the only choice. I may be completely out of my head, and as of this
Heh. I'm running out of "OpenStuff" :)
> morning I can't even find the stack of old source archives.
> If it's on
> tape I'm gonna cry "Uncle".
I don't suppose you might have seen the Mach version of OpenStep
running on Intel hardware? This would look pretty similar to a "linux"
if you were using a command-line shell.
> enough to work
> > with at that point. I ended up deleting everything but the window
> > manager. :)
> I've fooled with GNUSTEP myself, with the same results you got.
> WindowMaker is a great WM, but I begin to doubt that GNUSTEP will ever
> get any closer than that to a full-blown environment. Gnome
> & KDE have
> pulled all the focus and resources away.
That's a shame, since the NeXT environment is much nicer. :) Of course,
OpenStep on its own would still leave the problem of using X11 for
delivery of all graphics, which from what I've seen is nowhere near as
nice as the NeXT window system, but still it would have been a step in
the right direction.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org]
> Much better
> > than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE,
> Enlightenment,
> > etc, have become.
> Now I'm no big fan of any of the newer window managers either, but
> OpenLook? GAH, ARGHHH *WRETCH* Sure, it's a personal preference and
> all. My choice would be FVWM, and then probably TWM. Also, I'd
> completely forgetten about Bowman and AfterSTEP. Bowman was nice and
> lightweight, and I think derivative of FVWM.
Heh. I don't remember whether Bowman was FVWM derived or not, but
everything else was at the time, so why not? :) Actually, I wish
Enlightenment was still based on FVWM -- it would be much easier on the
CPU.
Anyway, yes, it's a personal preference, but I certainly like it better
than GNOME or KDE (since it will actually _run_ on a machine without
flooring a 200Mhz chip. There are one or two other "desktop
environments" for linux, but those never impressed me.
... so if you want an entire "environment" (that is, window management,
supporting apps, maybe a file manager, and if you're lucky a decent
set of widgets, all of which interoperate and share data nicely), what
other choice is there? (I would seriously like to know. Private
mail is fine, since most of this software is probably off topic :)
Personally, I use WindowMaker for window management, and don't bother
looking for "supporting apps," etc.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com]
> near certain that what I have is an X11 window manager named OpenSTEP.
> I've used GNUSTEP, AfterSTEP, and their nephew WindowMaker. All cool,
> but not what I was referring to.
Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with OpenWindows (OpenLook),
which was a SUN environment, and is, in fact, relatively well replicated
on linux. In fact, I'd say that byte-for-byte it's the most complete,
useable desktop environment available under Linux today. Much better
than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment,
etc, have become.
...but it's not OpenStep. It's neither as elegant nor as complete as the
NeXT environment, IMO. It's also not as pretty ;)
Actually, WindowMaker is the "official" window management component of
the GNUStep project. It's a (small, but visible) subset of GNUStep, in
other words, and not separate.
GNUStep consists of lots of UI libraries, supporting utilities (or it
should have those by now, rather -- I haven't checked in a while), and
misc. other stuff. All of that, when coupled with the window manager
should eventually give one an environment which is source compatible
with OpenStep on other platforms.
It's unfortunate that the project isn't further along. (finished!) I
tried to compile the whole of GNUStep (all that was available) for
Linux several years ago, and there wasn't anywhere near enough to work
with at that point. I ended up deleting everything but the window
manager. :)
I may try again soon.
There's another NeXT like WM named Bowman, on which AfterStep is based.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
It was a joke, Chad. You know...a joke?
-Dave
On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> It wasn't staffed at all.
>
> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
>
> Dave McGuire wrote:
> >
> > On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> > > That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I
> > > read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old
> > > Wangs.
> >
> > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of
> > dickheads?
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > --
> > Dave McGuire
> > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
>
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
> I didn't think I ever seen it all the way through. What does it have to
> do with railways and highways?
Highways were promoted as routes for buses to travel,
smoke-emitting buses that replaced clean electric
trolleys that ran on rail tracks... and this actually
happened not just in L.A. but all over the country.
-dq
> Is it possible to fall in love with a cartoon :-)
Many of us probably resemble that remark!
-dq
This was actually supposed to go straight to Dan. Sorry :)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Smith
> Ok, so how much does Insight cost? Will they panic if I tell them I
> don't have windows, and no, it's not a Macintosh either? ;)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu]
> I was just switched from @Home to my local cable company's (insight
> communications) network, and it's actual been more stable and
> reliable then it
> was before. @Home kind of sucked, but I've been happy with
> insight's service,
> at least so far -- it's been about a month...
Ok, so how much does Insight cost? Will they panic if I tell them I
don't have windows, and no, it's not a Macintosh either? ;)
Do they require you to buy cable service too, or can you get the
network hookup separately?
I have been considering switching to cable off and on, myself.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
>On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:43:31PM -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote:
>[snip]
>> This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware
>> owners in '99.
>
>You happen to have any idea how this was done? Public FTP, shipped CDs
>or some other form? I'm looking for a NeXTstep release; vendors only
>seem to ship OpenStep these days (if at all; it's been a while since
>I contacted one).
>
>--
>Sune Stjerneby <sst(a)vmunix.dk>
> - Part of an RFC 1876-compliant network.
It was done by shipping CDs. Owners of NeXT hardware were to contact
Apple (via telephone, fax, or e-mail, I think) with their machine serial
number (supposedly also software serial number, but that turned out not
to be required), and request the Y2K patches. Since those patches were
only applicable to NS3.3 or OS4.2, you would also get NS3.3 or OS4.2,
if you requested them. (I believe that if you had anything less than
OS4.0, you would get NS3.3; if you had OS4.0 or OS4.1, you would get
OS4.2. I also believe that you could get as many copies as
you had machine serial numbers. I am not certain of either of these
last two points.)
Some of these software packages appear for auction or sale in various
venues--or, that is what I assume they are, when they are advertised as
brand new, and including the Y2K patches. (There was at least one bug
introduced by the Y2K patches, but I don't think that a fix has been
released. It had to do with an unfortunate interaction between gnutar
and some (or one) of the Lighthouse Design programs.)
PB Schechter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sune Stjerneby [mailto:sst@vmunix.dk]
> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:43:31PM -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote:
> [snip]
> > This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware
> > owners in '99.
> You happen to have any idea how this was done? Public FTP, shipped CDs
> or some other form? I'm looking for a NeXTstep release; vendors only
> seem to ship OpenStep these days (if at all; it's been a while since
> I contacted one).
http://www.blackholeinc.com/ (I think)
Black Hole sells new, licensed copies of NeXTSTEP in several releases.
They're a little steep on those, but they have them.
I have no connection with Black Hole, other than that I think I'll order
a cable and mouse from them. :)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
