test-drb January 2008

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

221 participants
430 discussions

by rtellason＠verizon.net

On Tuesday 08 January 2008 15:48, Enrico Lazzerini wrote: > > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> > > > > There was some project article in Byte way back when, by Steve Ciarcia, > > which provided a peecee-type keyboard input (AT rather than PS/2 but that > > shouldn't make that much difference). The circuit to deal with this was > > very simple and elegant, though I can't remember any more just how it was > > done. > > > He didn't use a UART or similar, though, just a couple of MSI chips. > > And I remember thinking then how it wouldn't be all that hard to stuff an > > eprom between the output of that circuit (which gave you keycodes rather > > than characters) and have it spit out ASCII. > > > > Perhaps one of these days I'll run across the article again. > > Roy, > > here would be the list of articles by Steve Ciarcia > > http://www.devili.iki.fi/library/author/203.en.html > > May you try to find the exact article? That's an interesting list, and I'm sure that it will help narrow things down some, but I can't recall from just the title which article it was. The list will help me omit some of them, though. A while back I did a serious reduction in a lot of the old magazines that I had been keeping, and included in that was a bunch of Byte, not the real early ones, which I still have intact, but that period of time when they started to get rather bulky. I clipped a lot of articles out and kept them, and filled nine large trash bags with what I didnt want any more. Somewhere around here I have a couple of boxes that have those clipped articles in them, and once I find them and get the chance to go through them, I'll probably find the article I'm thinking of. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

18 years, 1 month

Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

>> If anyone is interested, I have a very small bit of 8051 code which reads an >> attached PC keyboard, providing the scan codes over an RS-232 link. It also >> supports commands to set LEDs on/off etc. I specifically avoided using the >> P1 line in my design (full 8-bits parallel I/O available even on an 8031), >> so these are free, making it very trivial to modify this to output parallel >> instead of serial - it would also be very easy to add a translate table >> and recognition of shift/ctrl modifiers so that it would output fully decided >> ASCII. > have you just the code or even the circuit PCB layout? I've built up hand-wired prototypes, but I have not laid out a PCB. The schematic is just an 8051 with power/crystal attached, or an 8031 with external ROM and address latch as per any 8051/8031 datasheet. The PC keyboard clock and data lines are attached to the pins indicated in the comments in my code. If you want RS-232 levels, you need a level convertor (MAX232 etc.) on the 8051/31 RX/TX signals. > And have you an idea to how to transform the circuit from serial to > parallel? Instead of polling for TX ready and writing the scancode to SBUF, just write it to P1 (8-bit parallel output). You will also need a key-down strobe, which you can implement via another pin, using key-down scancodes to set, and key-up scancodes to clear. Assuming you want ASCII instead of scancodes, you would need a translate table (scancode to ASCII), and to recognize and track the state of the SHIFT, CTRL keys and CAPS-LOCK state, either using alternate translate tables (most flexible), or modifying the codes from one table accordingly. Implementing rollover properly requires a bit more logic - once you have processed a key-down, you must queue any other scancodes you receive until you get the corresponding key-up, then process the queued codes after you have released the strobe. You can get fancier, implementing auto-repeat etc. if you like, the logic is pretty straightforward (if key-down persists beyond the initial delay, begin toggling the strobe at the repeat rate). Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 1 month

Who's collection is that?

by mike＠brickfieldspark.org

Its the collection at Bletchley Park, the WW2 codebreaking site http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/edu/collect/computer.rhtm Enigma, Bombe, Colossus and all that. I need to get down there sometime and drool over the Elliott 803. Jeremy Clarkson dos the BBC2 Top Gear motoring program, used to be a serious motoring program but in recent years has turned into a "boys toys lets see what stupid thing we can do with a car" program, funny all the same, a bit of light relief. I'm very surprised Bletchley Park let him near those machines, the BBC must have had to agree to serious contractual terms, Clarkson's comments are always controversial and he is renown for breaking things, especially that involving technology. I have to say I do agree with him sometimes. Mike. > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:46:55 -0800 > From: "Marcin Wichary" <mwichary at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <1debc0350801081246y1f1cd0fdl49c2787493829c3d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > It looks like the collection they have in Bletchley Park... > http://picasaweb.google.com/mwichary/BletchleyPark > Esp. this photo: > http://picasaweb.google.com/mwichary/BletchleyPark/photo#5007045881138292738, > although I was there a year and a half ago. > > Clarkson is actually pretty funny, usually. :) > > On Jan 8, 2008 12:30 PM, Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> wrote: > >> >> View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: >> >> http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html >> >> This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top >> Gear". I'm not familiar with it. >> >> But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And >> why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a >> hammer around all those vintage machines? >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> Festival >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> http://www.vintage.org >> >> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >> Computers >> ] >> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com <http://www.vintagetech.com/> || >> at >> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> > > > > -- > Marcin Wichary > User interface designer, Google > Graphical User Interface gallery >> www.guidebookgallery.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:42:15 -0800 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Subject: Re: Wonder how useful this would be, MMC to floppy disk > adapter > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <47836FA7.5245.3E2F3BAD at cclist.sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:50:13 -0600 >> From: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net> > >> http://www.flash-memory-store.com/clearance-flashpath-mmc-floppy-disk-adap >> ter.html The FlashPath is a floppy disk adapter that lets you read and >> write data to your MultiMedia Card (MMC) using your computer's floppy >> disk >> drive. Sale Price $9.99 > > Dunno, but at that price, I couldn't resist ordering a couple. I'll > pop one open to see what makes it tick. Note that the floppy is > simply used as a coupling device--the gizmo requires installation of > drivers. > > I'm particularly interested to see if those drivers will work with a > USB drive (i.e. how general are they?)--the literature's not quite > clear on that; only that it doesn't work with PC Card drives. > > Thanks for the link. The Smartdisk.com web site doesn't seem to be > responding; let's hope it's temporary. > > Cheers, > Chuck > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:09:03 +0000 > From: Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <C3A996EF.153F1%witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > On 8/1/08 20:30, "Sellam Ismail" <sellam at vintagetech.com> wrote: > >> >> View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: >> >> http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html >> >> This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top >> Gear". I'm not familiar with it. > > It's an award-winning motoring show that polarises people's opinion on > Clarkson. Some, like me, think he's great and everyone else thinks he's a > <expletive deleted> > >> But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And >> why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a >> hammer around all those vintage machines? > > That's the old Block H museum at Bletchley Park and to be fair he's only > smashing up a Tecra :) That room is now the Large Machine room of the new > National Museum of Computing and we now have the entire run of H-Block > which > is the world's first purpose built computer room that housed the > codebreaking Colossus machines from Jan 1944. Jules will be along soon to > provide links etc that I can never remember! > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator > Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer > collection? > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:14:03 -0600 > From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4783E79B.1050507 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > Marcin Wichary wrote: >> It looks like the collection they have in Bletchley Park... > > Yes it is/was, although that was before my time there, so the vid's at > least > four years old. First time I've seen it too - I had no idea anyone > actually > let him do that right next to any of the 'real' machines! :-( > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:35:07 +0000 > From: Lawrence Wilkinson <ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk> > Subject: S/360 update > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <1199828107.20866.25.camel at ljw.me.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain > > I've just had a email from Bob Doran, who was one of my CompSci > professors at Auckland University. > > It seems that they (AU Comp Sci) have the front panel from my 360 which > they salvaged many years ago, and which is now becoming part of a lobby > display. > > So at least now I know something about what happened to it, but I > suspect that the rest of the system was scrapped. > > One part he's after for the panel is the centre Display Store Selection > rotary switch dials (there are two parts to the rotary switch), so if > anyone happens to know where there's a spare one, I'm sure he'd be > grateful! > (See the top picture at http://www.corestore.org/360.htm , thanks Mike!) > -- > Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk > The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:21:57 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <E1JCMpZ-0002Oo-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > In reading some stupid web site today that claimed to have a canonical > list of "top 50 arguments of computing" (e-week? someplace I normally > ignore), they had the "DEC vs. IBM" argument in which they claimed > that AS/400 was created as a "VAX killer" by IBM. > > Is this really true? I never heard of an AS/400 described that way. > > They also had some weird ideas about DEC vs. IBM networking described > in that argument, as if neither company supported TCP/IP until their > proprietary networks (DECnet and SNA) were forced to relinquish ground > to open protocols. > > OK, googling brings up the link. "Network World" is the culprit: > <http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/102607-arguments-dec-ibm.html?nwwpkg=…> > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:26:09 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <E1JCMtd-0002sz-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > OK, someone beat me to it (or saved me the trouble of scanning, not > sure which :-) on the CDC manual. Hrm. Did someone scan and > contribute to bitsavers and then sell it to me on ebay? > > <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/graphics/grid/PD82134500_GRID_Preliminary_Hard…> > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:07:07 -0500 > From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com> > Subject: Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4784021B.5060604 at atarimuseum.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I was at I think the 1990 or 1991 New York Computer Show at Jacob > Javitts and IBM had a booth setup with a ton of the small BA440 sized > AS400's and they were streaming video across a network onto a > presentation screen from one, running Novell on another, I thought > perhaps they were running a derivative of OS/2 (but I'm not totally > certain) and then running others with standard AS/400 apps on others. > > The IBM rep's were touting their abilities and DEC Vax's were mentioned > several times during the course of casual conversations I overheard > throughout the booth. They were really pushing the AS/400's as the end > all, beat all workhorse machine. > > > Curt > > > > Richard wrote: >> In reading some stupid web site today that claimed to have a canonical >> list of "top 50 arguments of computing" (e-week? someplace I normally >> ignore), they had the "DEC vs. IBM" argument in which they claimed >> that AS/400 was created as a "VAX killer" by IBM. >> >> Is this really true? I never heard of an AS/400 described that way. >> >> They also had some weird ideas about DEC vs. IBM networking described >> in that argument, as if neither company supported TCP/IP until their >> proprietary networks (DECnet and SNA) were forced to relinquish ground >> to open protocols. >> >> OK, googling brings up the link. "Network World" is the culprit: >> <http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/102607-arguments-dec-ibm.html?nwwpkg=…> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:13:32 +0000 > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> > Subject: Re: Wonder how useful this would be, MMC to floppy disk > adapter > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4784039C.1080302 at dunnington.plus.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 08/01/2008 20:42, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >>> http://www.flash-memory-store.com/clearance-flashpath-mmc-floppy-disk-adap >>> ter.html The FlashPath is a floppy disk adapter that lets you read and >>> write data to your MultiMedia Card (MMC) using your computer's floppy >>> disk >>> drive. Sale Price $9.99 >> >> Dunno, but at that price, I couldn't resist ordering a couple. I'll >> pop one open to see what makes it tick. Note that the floppy is >> simply used as a coupling device--the gizmo requires installation of >> drivers. >> >> I'm particularly interested to see if those drivers will work with a >> USB drive (i.e. how general are they?)--the literature's not quite >> clear on that; only that it doesn't work with PC Card drives. > > I remember those, but they're quite old. I was interested at the time > because I was was looking for a way to read cards from a digital camera, > but I rapidly discovered that it only worked with one particular version > of Windows (95, I think) and the support was non-existent. Absolutely > no way to make it work with Linux/Irix/Solaris/MS-DOS which was what I > wanted. So I decided to get a Sony camera that took 3.5" floppies > instead (that'll date it for you). > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:29:29 -0000 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini at iee.org> > Subject: RE: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <002201c8524e$51c8cce0$5b01a8c0 at uatempname> > > Richard wrote: >> In reading some stupid web site today that claimed to have a canonical >> list of "top 50 arguments of computing" (e-week? someplace I normally >> ignore), they had the "DEC vs. IBM" argument in which they claimed >> that AS/400 was created as a "VAX killer" by IBM. >> >> Is this really true? I never heard of an AS/400 described that way. > > The original "VAX killer" was the IBM 9370 (or so I was told > when I was working on a mixed DEC/IBM site back in the 1990s). > > I've never heard an AS400 described that way either, but by then > I was firmly entrenched at DEC sites (and then DEC) so I wouldn't > have been in a position to hear such gossip anyway. > > Wouldn't surprise me to hear the phrase re-used though. > > Antonio > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 07/01/2008 09:14 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:50:12 -0800 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Subject: re: CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <47840C34.8070207 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The scan was from a copy in the CHM archives. > > Do you have the same revision of this document? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:53:46 +0000 > From: jpero at sympatico.ca > Subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode. > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <6bpm1d$55ejur at toip4.srvr.bell.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > This is in french but the video is priceless! 17 minutes long. > Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat. > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht > ml > > Cheers, Wizard > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:54:15 +0000 > From: Peter Hicks <peter.hicks at poggs.co.uk> > Subject: ST412 controller cables > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <47840D27.9070307 at poggs.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hello! > > In an attempt to resurrect an old Mitsubishi MR535R (RLL) drive, I managed > to > pick up an ST11M controller by accident - it was advertised on eBay as > "MFM or > RLL". > > Two things: > > 1) Does anyone have a spare set of control and data cables? I'm willing > to > pay for 'em, or visit Maplin for components to make up a set, since > they're > probably easy to make with IDC connectors and ribbon cable. > > 2) Does anyone happen to have a suitable RLL controller they're looking > to > get rid of, or could let me have access to one for a few hours? The 60Mb > drive > possibly contains some very old RM Net 3.1 software which I'd like to > archive > off, as there doesn't seem to be anyone at all - even at RM - who has any > software left. I'd be happy to travel (within reason, I'm in London, UK) > and > exchange use of a controller card for beer/alcohol :) > > Cheers > > > Peter > > -- > Peter Hicks | e: my.name at poggs.co.uk | g: 0xE7C839F4 | w: www.poggs.com > > A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation > Q: Why is top-posting bad? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:04:44 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> > Subject: Re: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode. > To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <C3A979CC.145AC%rcini at optonline.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > OMG, that is soooo amazing. Proof positive that you can make anything with > the proper tools. Mesmerizing. > > > On 1/8/08 1:53 PM, "jpero at sympatico.ca" <jpero at sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> This is in french but the video is priceless! 17 minutes long. >> Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat. >> >> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht >> ml >> >> Cheers, Wizard > > Rich > > -- > Rich Cini > Collector of Classic Computers > Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator > http://www.altair32.com > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:11:00 -0500 > From: "Evan" <evan at snarc.net> > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200801090011.m090BUYG096960 at keith.ezwind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Will read when I get home ... But Top Gear is a great show. > > Also ... "whose" ... you dumbass. :) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> > Subj: Who's collection is that? > Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:44 pm > Size: 821 bytes > To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: > > http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html > > This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top > Gear". I'm not familiar with it. > > But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And > why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a > hammer around all those vintage machines? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:34:48 -0000 > From: "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini at iee.org> > Subject: Who says you can't make your own vacuum tubes? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <002901c85257$71db9ef0$5b01a8c0 at uatempname> > > This from Make (via slashdot): > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.html > > There seems to be a bunch of paperwork on his site too (assuming you > count PDF as "paperwork"). > > Won't be too long before someone is building 7400 TTL replacements > chips in a garage somewhere! > > Antonio > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 07/01/2008 09:14 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:37:42 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: Re: CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <E1JCOww-0006Iy-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > > In article <47840C34.8070207 at bitsavers.org>, > Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> writes: > >> The scan was from a copy in the CHM archives. >> >> Do you have the same revision of this document? > > I'll check the document numbers, but it looks identical, complete with > the same provisional hand-written notes and whatnot. > > The two short addendums to the manual are not present in that scan, so > I can scan those and upload them. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:40:59 -0500 > From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net> > Subject: RE: Who's collection is that? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <010e01c85258$4f6248a0$f750f945 at evan> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Crap ... I'm the dumbass ... meant to reply to Sellam directly. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Evan [mailto:evan at snarc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:11 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? > > > Will read when I get home ... But Top Gear is a great show. > > Also ... "whose" ... you dumbass. :) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> > Subj: Who's collection is that? > Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:44 pm > Size: 821 bytes > To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: > > http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html > > This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top > Gear". I'm not familiar with it. > > But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And > why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a > hammer around all those vintage machines? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:16:58 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General at priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Richard wrote: >> >> They also had some weird ideas about DEC vs. IBM networking described >> in that argument, as if neither company supported TCP/IP until their >> proprietary networks (DECnet and SNA) were forced to relinquish ground >> to open protocols. > > There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' > mean, and > how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that > argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own > 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at > least > above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in the > networking world in those days as it does today. > > There was also resistance to open protocols at the customer level if those > customers were already ensconced in the proprietary networks. A lot of > people > were looking only at their immediate needs rather than seeing the future > of an > 'interconnected world'. > > (As I've said before on the list) there was at least one third-party > producing > a TCP/IP stack for VMS before DEC got around to it. To my recollection, > IBM was > even later in taking up TCP/IP, although one might have to distinguish > between > mainframe and PC stuff. > > Put another way, DEC and IBM didn't support TCP/IP until they 'had to' (as > in > market forces). > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:27:20 -0600 > From: "Michael B. Brutman" <mbbrutman-cctalk at brutman.com> > Subject: Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <478422F8.3060100 at brutman.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > I don't know if IBM created the AS/400 as a VAX killer. I doubt it. > > The AS/400 is a direct descendent of the S/38. The S/38 was designed > and built by the people who brought you the S/36, S/34, and earlier > machines. The IBM plant that built those machines and related equipment > has been in Rochester MN since the late 1950s. > > Both series of machines competed in the mid-range market. I don't think > that IBM has 'won' the mid-range market with the AS/400 and iSeries. I > think it is just the last player standing in that market, with Unix > machines having done serious damage to all of the players. > > > Mike > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:20:43 -0700 > From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <E1JCRUh-0004D0-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > > In article <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca>, > Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes: > >> There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' >> mean, a > nd >> how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that >> argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> least >> above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in the >> networking world in those days as it does today. > > But wasn't DEC instrumental in helping ethernet succeed? See the > history section of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet>. Or am I > confusing ethernet (physical layer) with tcp/ip (protocol layer)? > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:32:50 -0500 > From: "John Floren" <slawmaster at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <7d3530220801081932j497f341bw5be32cfc51fd2dbf at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 1/8/08, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: >> >> In article <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca>, >> Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes: >> >> > There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' >> > mean, a >> nd >> > how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that >> > argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> > 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> > least >> > above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in >> > the >> > networking world in those days as it does today. >> >> But wasn't DEC instrumental in helping ethernet succeed? See the >> history section of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet>. Or am I >> confusing ethernet (physical layer) with tcp/ip (protocol layer)? > > DECnet runs over ethernet. Plan 9's IL protocol (used instead of tcp > in the early days) runs over ethernet. I think you're confusing > physical layer with protocol layer :) > > John > -- > Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:11:11 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General at priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <47844960.20BB087F at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Richard wrote: >> >> In article <4784208A.8589EB19 at cs.ubc.ca>, >> Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> writes: >> >> > There's a lot of room for shades of gray in there (what does 'forced' >> > mean, a >> nd >> > how far, and when) but I'd say there is a good deal of validity to that >> > argument. In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> > 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> > least >> > above the link level. TCP/IP didn't have the degree of prominence in >> > the >> > networking world in those days as it does today. >> >> But wasn't DEC instrumental in helping ethernet succeed? See the >> history section of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet>. Or am I >> confusing ethernet (physical layer) with tcp/ip (protocol layer)? > > Yes, ethernet was precisely what I had in mind as I added that little "at > least > above the link level" clause to my comment. > Ethernet is quite distinct from TCP/IP, it's just another link type as far > as > IP is concerned. DEC latched on to ethernet quite early to use as a > (choice of) > link layer for DECnet. > > It is kind of funny that manufacturers could agree on physical & frame > level > stuff (RS232,HDLC,ethernet,etc.) but then had to go their own way in the > higher > layers. > Or one might say that agreement started at the physical level, and it just > took > time to go up the stack getting agreement along the way. (Or else it's > just > easier to be proprietary in software than hardware.) > > I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops of > thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers > around, > until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although the > transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it was > called > the DEQNA?). > Youngsters out there should be grateful they don't have to wire their home > machines together with thick-wire... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:48:35 -0800 > From: "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <1e1fc3e90801082048v4bc0edb3iedef778f37cb4b91 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Jan 8, 2008 8:11 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: >> I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops of >> thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers >> around, >> until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although >> the >> transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it was >> called >> the DEQNA?). > > DEQNA = Q-bus Ethernet (M7504), replaced by DELQA (M7516) and DESQA > (M3127) > > Maybe you meant DELNI = Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect, > which had 8 local AUI ports. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:46:53 -0500 (EST) > From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200801090451.XAA07683 at Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> In the 80's DEC and IBM were pretty big on pushing their own >> 'networking solutions' and did their best to avoid open protocols, at >> least above the link level. > > In Montreal, in the days before Teh Internet, each of the four > universities here was using IP internally, but had no IP connectivity > outside themselves. Then DEC, presumably trying to earn some kind of > PR brownie points in support of higher education or some such, donated > routers and leased lines to tie them together - but the routers were > DECnet-only. (I proceeded to use IP/DECnet dual-stack Ultrix machines > to turn this DECnet-only infrastructure into an IP transport...I don't > know how DEC felt about this nose-thumbing at their attempt to lock us > into their proprietary way, but the CRIM treated it as a feature, so it > would have been impolitic for DEC to grumble publicly.) > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:52:06 -0500 (EST) > From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200801090454.XAA07715 at Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> [...] until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' >> (although the transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct >> in recalling it was called the DEQNA?). > > No. The DEQNA is a Q-bus Ethernet card. (I don't remember DEC's name > for their AUI hub, but I know the DEQNA.) > >> Youngsters out there should be grateful they don't have to wire their >> home machines together with thick-wire... > > Aye. Thicknet was difficult to run and (at least in my exprience) the > transceiver/cable connection was horribly finicky. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:22:31 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General at priv-edtnaa04.telusplanet.net, > "Discussion at priv-edtnaa04.telusplanet.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <47845A18.E9CAB113 at cs.ubc.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Glen Slick wrote: >> >> On Jan 8, 2008 8:11 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: >> > I well remember linking VAXes together and fighting with 2-metre loops >> > of >> > thick-wire ethernet while banging those damned metal brick transceivers >> > around, >> > until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' (although >> > the >> > transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct in recalling it >> > was called >> > the DEQNA?). >> >> DEQNA = Q-bus Ethernet (M7504), replaced by DELQA (M7516) and DESQA >> (M3127) >> >> Maybe you meant DELNI = Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect, >> which had 8 local AUI ports. > > Thanks for the correction. I think I've heard "DEQNA" in recent years and > it > was supplanting the memory of "DELNI", which I haven't heard in years. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:12:07 -0500 > From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DECnet,SNA vs TCP/IP / was Re: AS/400 a "VAX killer"? > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <478473C7.3010004 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > der Mouse wrote: >>> [...] until DEC saved us all with that first 8-port ethernet 'hub' >>> (although the transceiver cables were still a pain). (Am I correct >>> in recalling it was called the DEQNA?). >> >> No. The DEQNA is a Q-bus Ethernet card. (I don't remember DEC's name >> for their AUI hub, but I know the DEQNA.) > > DELNI? > > Peace... Sridhar > > > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 53, Issue 17 > ************************************** > >

18 years, 1 month

Who's collection is that?

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Ah you underestimate the power of TV. They would have of course been insured. If they thought it would make good TV they could have copied the room onto a set, bought up old systems and had him trash the lot! Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: 08 January 2008 21:14 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Who's collection is that? Marcin Wichary wrote: > It looks like the collection they have in Bletchley Park... Yes it is/was, although that was before my time there, so the vid's at least four years old. First time I've seen it too - I had no idea anyone actually let him do that right next to any of the 'real' machines! :-(

18 years, 1 month

Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by brain＠jbrain.com

Enrico Lazzerini wrote: > > > Jim, > > i need just this, I don't care to see the caps lock led turning on or off!! > > But the schematic indicated to that link, it appear to be a theoric > schematic. > > I really have not time to testing circuit or verify how it works. > > So anybody has an idea of a pratical circuit working? > Yes, the schematic won't work as-is (it's only 10 bits, and PS/2 uses 11 (start, parity, stop, 8 bits) and as Holger notes, it just delivers PS/2 Set 2 scan codes, which are horrid (voice of recent experience) But, the design I already sent you will do exactly what you wish. One Atmel Mega8 (or a Tiny24 would work, though I don't have any here to test the code). Is there something else you're looking for? I modified the PS2Encoder design on the web site (http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/PS2Encoder) to offer a truly generic one (all data lines come to a 2x13 header, and the PS/2 connector is already on the board.) I know the design works, as I tested the code before I sent someone on the list a version for a FlashWriter II KB interface. > Holger, > > it's exactly what i'm looking for. So may you give your help? What PIC to > use? > > I have a PS2 Keyboard and when I press the character A I need to have the > > binary code 41H that means 0100 0001B on eight wires plus a strobe line. > > Only in this direction. Is it possible? > > Thanks > > Enrico > Dave's code will work (though you'll need to write some additional 8051 code to do the parallel output, should be trivial. My code will work, and outputs 41H when a A is sent (Actually, I think it sends lowercase a, but I can change the mappings in a few minutes if that's an issue) Holger is speaking theoretically, without any specific design in mind, I believe. Jim

18 years, 1 month

Keyboard PS/2 to Parallel converter

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi at all, as many will have understood, i'd like to make my BigBoard 1 alive again. I need for a ASCII parallel keyboard. Many years ago (exactly 20 ones) I got a old cherry keyboard; I open it and rebuilt all its rows and colums to be the inputs for a KR-2376 keyboard encoder. I had much more time.. I though to realize an economical interface to convert signal coming from a PS/2 keyboard and convert each codes in parallel standard (data 0 to 7 plus strobe signal). Here there is a schematic already suggested http://eece.ksu.edu/~eece696/beta/digital/A/stop.htm but could it works? What could be the exact schematic and hardware to use? And at the last is there anything "ready-to-use" cause I have not much time to spend to build it? Thanks to all will answer. Regards Enrico

18 years, 1 month

Who's collection is that?

by evan＠snarc.net

Will read when I get home ... But Top Gear is a great show. Also ... "whose" ... you dumbass. :) -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <sellam at vintagetech.com> Subj: Who's collection is that? Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:44 pm Size: 821 bytes To: Classic Computers Mailing List <cctalk at classiccmp.org> View the YouTube clip on this blog posting by Christine Finn: http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/top-gear-star-i.html This is Jeremy Clarkson, some British guy who does a show called "Top Gear". I'm not familiar with it. But what I want to know is, whose collection is that in the video? And why did they allow this psychotic monkey to start going apeshit with a hammer around all those vintage machines? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 1 month

CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online

by aek＠bitsavers.org

The scan was from a copy in the CHM archives. Do you have the same revision of this document?

18 years, 1 month

Wonder how useful this would be, MMC to floppy disk adapter

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:50:13 -0600 > From: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net> > http://www.flash-memory-store.com/clearance-flashpath-mmc-floppy-disk-adap > ter.html The FlashPath is a floppy disk adapter that lets you read and > write data to your MultiMedia Card (MMC) using your computer's floppy disk > drive. Sale Price $9.99 Dunno, but at that price, I couldn't resist ordering a couple. I'll pop one open to see what makes it tick. Note that the floppy is simply used as a coupling device--the gizmo requires installation of drivers. I'm particularly interested to see if those drivers will work with a USB drive (i.e. how general are they?)--the literature's not quite clear on that; only that it doesn't work with PC Card drives. Thanks for the link. The Smartdisk.com web site doesn't seem to be responding; let's hope it's temporary. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 1 month

CDC GRID (Graphical Interactive Display) manual online

by legalize＠xmission.com

OK, someone beat me to it (or saved me the trouble of scanning, not sure which :-) on the CDC manual. Hrm. Did someone scan and contribute to bitsavers and then sell it to me on ebay? <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/graphics/grid/PD82134500_GRID_Preliminary_Hard…> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 1 month

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test-drb January 2008