test-drb April 2013

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

205 participants
273 discussions

pdp-11/23 config (was: Re: Qbus identification)

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > > Was it indeed usual to build such large configurations based on an 11/23 back then? > > That was not a small configuration, but it wasn't uncommon. > > [data points for system configurations from Ethan and Allison] allison <ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote: > Not at all uncommon. Usually the disk round out might have left out the > RQDX or the RX02 > but many in the day wanted to move from 8" to 5.25 for space and needed > one system to do both. OK, some more enlightenment absorbed. > You will want RX50 or RX02 as those were and are common media. > Either way a RX02 or RX50 was the common simple and cheap storage > that offered portability. Mass storage for my system is another area I need to spend more thought on, for now I was planning to stay with the RL drives I got with the case. > RL packs were over 160$ new and didn't like to > be bounced. FYI drives like RL02 were nearly as expensive as the base > machine ($8-12K). The drives are not the problem, I have those. I will need to check them out and get myself some more packs though. On second thought, some kind of floppy might be nice, too, but that is not a must now. If pressed for more mass storage, I could always put my QBus SMD controller (and a CMD Phoenix fixed/removable drive combination I was recently offered )to use with this machine, although I had got those rather imagined using them with my VSII/GPX. > Its easier to find Dias on RX50 or RX02 though I've seen them on TK50 > but hated loading them form that (slow!). I do have a TQK(mumble) board already (which was originally also intended for the VSII), but no drive yet. > > TQK50, DEQNA and RQDX3 at least sound sound a bit anachronistic > > to me, there surely must have been newer and more powerful > > processors out at the time those became available? > There were - you could get a MicroPDP-11 with a KDJ11, and lots > of people did, but they cost more. I wouldn't have wanted to run > an RSX-11/M+ system on a KDF11, but I did see plenty of them on > KDJ11 processors (but even more on Unibus machines). > > TK50 was tape DLT tape. DEQNA was ethernet, and RQDX3 was > MSCP floppy and hard disk controller. > > CPU typically was 11/23+ or 11/73 later on for a price. So the distinction between the rackmount and MicroPDP/VAX eras wasn't as sharp as I imagined it. I have such boards (ok, a DELQA in this case) in said VSII. > > I think I'll have a rather minimal system (KDF11-B, 512kW RAM, > > quad SLU, RLV12 + one or drives) for now, not making my first > > foray into pdp technology more complicated than necessary. > > I would call that a mid-range Q-bus PDP-11 myself, not "minimal". > Among other characteristics, I personally think of Q22 as "not minimal". > You can do a lot with RT-11 in 18 bits of memory. My fault, I should have been more specific and included: "in terms of features/peripherals/board count". Also, I was thinking relative to all 11s, not just QBUS. > The fact that it had 4MB of ram was uncommon as back in the day that was > as costly as the base machine if not more. I understand that memory was at a premium back then. Out of interest, how common was core memory (H223 and similar) in QBUS systems? Is BBU supported for the MOS memory options? > > I would call that a mid-range Q-bus PDP-11 myself, not "minimal". > > (...) > > Among other characteristics, I personally think of Q22 as "not minimal". > > You can do a lot with RT-11 in 18 bits of memory. > > Yes, you can even in 16bits. I also have a tiny system using M8186 in a > 12 slot dual wide cage running 512KB ram (4 boards), MRV11 (boot), > DLV11J for serial IO, and TU58 for storage. It boots the TU and copies > it to VM: and reboots from there making for a small but very fast > RT-11 system. The OS only use the 28KW and the rest is a virtual > disk (ram disk) big enough to copy the whole base os and a few > useful apps. What OS to use is yet another undecided question, I haven't even read up on the options. I could also just try out some bare metal programming at the ODT for a start. > I think you meant 150MB for RQDXm for its upper limit. For larger > there were large disks but that was uncommon for Qbus 11s. > RT11 could barely fill (the whole mess) a 20mb drie with much room > left over. For RSTS or RSX a 31mb (RD52) was enough and two > did the trick. So with just 1-2 RL0x drives, I'm pretty much stuck with RT-11? I've read that it has a lot in common with later DOS, so that might not even be a bad thing after all :) > larger systems often had mag tape either DLT (tk50) > or 9track for backup and sneakernet (off site or remote systems > before WAN). No such stuff in sight alas, but ISTR there is some sort of emulator software that makes a PC act as a serially-attached tape device? > When I was using the BA11N system I described, I owned an RL01 > because I couldn't afford an RL02. > > FWIW, I was messing with this system just last month. It's still intact. Nice to hear that. How problematic are the BA11-N power supplies, BTW? > > The system I still use is the tall (50") rack BA-11 CPU I used in my office > > when I was in the Mill (ML03-6/B5) as a utility system for printing and > > off line (non VAX work). Still fun to use and I even have a few > > uVAX3100s running VMS for it to talk to. > > Cool. Seconded :) Arno

12 years, 1 month

Cross country hauling - an update

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

Thanks to all so far that have expressed interest in me hauling their computer goodies across the country. As I think most of the interested parties know, my roadtrip has been delayed until June. I am resetting all the deals, as things were just not gelling properly. Anyway, many of you have already been contacted, and may be contacted again, to get the deals restarted, and to finalize the whole roadtrip. I am sorry that I could not do all the hauling requested - not enough space in the van. One thing - for any deal, I need to know exactly who I am dealing with, with *full* contact information. If someone has a deal piggybacking on another deal that I am hauling, I absolutely need to know about it. Basically, I need to know everything. Please keep in mind that I keep all of this information very discrete, and in fact, am under NDAs with some customers. No blabbermouthing from me. -- Will

12 years, 1 month

Gates and Allen reshoot historic 1981 Microsoft photo • The Register

by woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net

Interesting photo redone, er reshot... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/04/gates_allen_reshoot_photo/ -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

12 years, 1 month

Grid Compass I or II CCOS ROMs?

by dave13＠dunfield.com

>I know I've asked about this in the past, butI figured I'd try again: >Anyone have any idea where to track down ROMs for the Grid Compass I or >II (1101 / 1129)? I accidentally formatted my 1129's internal bubble >memory tonight (while intending to format an external floppy) and now of >course it won't boot. (Doesn't seem to want to try booting from the >floppy drive either, unless there's a magical keysequence...) According to the manual: "To load the operating system from Floppy Disk or Portable Floppy, turn on the computer while holding down the F (for Floppy Disk) key. If both a floppy disk and a portable floppy are attached to your computer and you want to start up from the portable floppy, open the door to the floppy disk drive before turning on the computer." You can also use 'H' to force a boot from a hard drive, otherwise it boots from configured primary storage which is usually Bubble. Dave -- dave13 (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield System/Firmware development services: www.dunfield.com (dot) com Classic computers: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield

12 years, 1 month

vintage items available

by sales＠elecplus.com

I am NOT associated with the seller or the products; please contact him directly if you are interested. WTS the following items from our inventory: 1 New F209-8925-jrb Vintage Burroughs Computer Co. T1500 Check Encoder Encoding Machine 1 New J205-9505-CR Vintage Heath Computer Component 8 Bit VGA Board 150-307-1 1 New Jrb-C410-124 Vintage Pacific Recorders PR&E TI-2 Tape Interface _____ Mike Zabezhinsky Oceantech 1313 Winter St NE (612) 331-4456 email: mike at oceantechonline.com _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6232 - Release Date: 04/08/13

12 years, 1 month

Festo FPC-202 PLC

by sales＠elecplus.com

What makes 1 machine worth $1000 much more than the other, if they are both identical? http://www.ebay.com/itm/FESTO-ELECTRONICS-FPC-202-TN-008381-TYP-E-FPC-202-PN -31342-/160938881753?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 <http://www.ebay.com/itm/FESTO-ELECTRONICS-FPC-202-TN-008381-TYP-E-FPC-202-P N-31342-/160938881753?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2578b472d9> &hash=item2578b472d9 http://www.barcodemuseum.com/Festo/FPC202.html There are several on eBay for $100 or less. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6231 - Release Date: 04/07/13

12 years, 1 month

Grid Compass I or II CCOS ROMs?

by derschjo＠gmail.com

I know I've asked about this in the past, butI figured I'd try again: Anyone have any idea where to track down ROMs for the Grid Compass I or II (1101 / 1129)? I accidentally formatted my 1129's internal bubble memory tonight (while intending to format an external floppy) and now of course it won't boot. (Doesn't seem to want to try booting from the floppy drive either, unless there's a magical keysequence...) I'm looking for either CCOS or GRiD's version of MS-DOS, which I believe were both available as ROMs for this machine. I'm hoping that this machine will boot from internal ROM, and not just bubble memory (otherwise I've basically destroyed any chance of running this machine again...) I've had very little luck tracking down either software or documentation for this thing (found a few disk images on Dave Dunfield's site). TheRuGRiD Yahoo group specializes mostly in later GRiD machines and has basically no Compass information. Knowing if it's even possible to get this to boot from a floppy would be useful as well... Thanks as always, Josh

12 years, 1 month

VAX 11/780

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

I put information on converting an RP06 to 220VAC single-phase here: https://sites.google.com/site/mthompsonorg/Home/pdp-10/rm03-and-rp06-inform… From: John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: VAX 11/780 > On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 08:18:20PM -0500, Jon Elson wrote: > > >The RM07 also was 3-phase, I think all the smaller VAX 780 > >disks were single-phase. > > RM02/03/05/80 are definitely single-phase. RP07 is 3-phase as you say, > as is RP06 and I assume therefore RP05. Dunno about RP04. > > >The RM07 was a total monstrosity > >from Burroughs, I hope you don't have one of those. We went through > >a lot of pain as one of the early adopters of that, but in the > >end it was a high performance drive and fairly reliable. > > I've heard you have to pop the RP07's top whenever it's running or it > overheats... otherwise good though, and huge for the time. > > John Wilson > D Bit > -- Michael Thompson

12 years, 1 month

Subject: Re: Mulling a museum

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Will Donzelli is on target with this on Collections Policy... and I will add a few more things to consider also. 1. If you are not a business person find some to collaborate with. Always good to have grant writer as a fried too! Unless you have a funding organization or group you are going to have to support it. I have seem to may people open things with about a business plan or ability to fund it and think that money will just appear. Remember most people on the street probably could care less about what you are displaying and certainly will not throw any money your way. Develop strategic alliances with educational facilities and Hi Tech Businesses in your area. ========================== 2. Hey! You are going to get duplicate material... you can wither take up valuable display space to stash dupes and pay or off site storage... but..... the BEST! is finding a beta site to stash it but... it is on display there.. If it is a cool item like an extra Altair or PDP-8 have a loan agreement.... especially when dealing with schools ... If you give something to a college and the whims of floor space utilization rear their head... the can just send it to state surplus or in some cases I have heard of... throw it away! So to reiterate, Find cool other places to place things on display which can also act as a funnel to lead people to visit you mother load ... and maintain control of material in off site displays ================= 3. From the standpoint of disaster having your collection in diverse physical locations is a consideration. If you have a chance to pick a spot in the nation somewhere ... do a study of the area.. Take time analyze the possibly of earthquakes, flood, fire, theft, tornados, hurricanes etc... get maps study the geography... Think of things like.... if I build a museum in a nice mountain forested area and there is a raging forest fire... what happens? Think of things like ... is this area in a flood plain and the 100 year flood... will it get me? many times these 100 year floods happen sooner than 100 years! Think of things like.... Will the earthquakes throw the artifacts off the shelves? ====================================== I could go on forever... but there are a couple things to consider. Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC Message: 10 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 17:14:00 -0400 From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Mulling a museum Message-ID: <CANij+deAMEjFcgZ+ky-bphcA+5RErFpUKeeC1s4o=CKNnTedCA at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > I'm highjacking this thread. I'm debating starting a museum locally, as we don't have anything like this in the Indianapolis area. > > For those who have started such endeavors, what are your stories in getting the ball rolling? Plan. Plan. Plan some more. Plan for the distant future. Part of this planning involves a Collections Policy. This is a document that defines the collection - what is to be included, and what is to be turned away. It has been said by many folks over the years that artifacts (hardware) are the easiest things to find, and in time, will completely take over any and all space a museum has. A nice, focused Collection Policy THAT IS ADHERED TO will keep things under control, and keep quality high. Yes, quality is better than quantity. I have been part of a decent number of independent little museums over the years (computer and otherwise, but all being tech related), and nearly all of them have let their collections bloat out of control, due to the lack of a Collections Policy. Trust me - you do not want to get in this situation. Think of all the good stuff later on that has to be passed up because there is no room. Think of the infighting and politics when you need to get rid of things. Think of moving the collection with all the excess when you lose your space. Think of what visitors are looking at. -- Will

12 years, 1 month

Tech is the biggest problem facing archiving ? The Register

by dm561＠torfree.net

----- Original Message ----- Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 02:01:36 -0400 From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > I WILL try to stop "feeding the troll". Try a little harder! You're the one participant common to almost every one of these ridiculous and absolutely pointless kids-in-a-sandbox pissing contests... Seriously, have you thought about how much time you spend feeding the trolls and how much better you could spend that time (not to mention the time the rest of us waste wading through this dreck)? m

12 years, 1 month

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test-drb April 2013