test-drb January 2014

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

224 participants
263 discussions

by mtapley＠swri.edu

On Jan 8, 2014, at 12:00 PM, ARD wrote: > THe HP41 was a much mroe expandable ssytem than the TI59. Or at least, > IU've never seen an TI59 controlling a benchtop of HPIB instruments, > savign the readiungs to floppy disk or tape and then trasnmittign the > logged data over an RS232 link. I do that with my HP41 all the time. > > I don;t think the TI ever had a realtime clock, did it? > > And of course the HP had an alphanumeric dispaly. All true to the best of my knowledge; expandability and extensibility (sic?) was one area where the HP was leaps and bounds ahead of the TI. I was insufficiently precise; I was looking at total storage capacity and program execution speed as my main ?performance? criteria at the time. FWIW, the TI would print alpha characters on its PC-100 printer/cradle, if you had one of those. But it was pretty kludgey, and I don?t think there?s any way to get alpha out of the handheld part of the system. Well, OK, get the result 07734 and hold the calculator upside down. :-) >> 2) I quibble with Tony?s recommendation to reject a machine that says >> Sin(Pi) = 0. I?m pretty sure the TI says that; the quicker but >> essentially equivalent test I always used to taunt my HP-41-equipped >> friend was (Sqrt(2))^2. The TI said 2, the HP said 1.99999? I claim > > Actually, that is something rather different. > > If you take a decimal approximation of SQRT(2), round it after, say, 13 > digits, then square it and round the reult to 10 digits (or whatever), > you will get 2. But if you take any finite number of dgits of pi, > calculate the sin, the answer is not zero. It's of the order of > 10^-(number of digits). So even if you take 13 digits of pi, the SIN > should not display as zero. I suppose you could argue that if you took > over 100 digits, the result would be zero (since a number of the order of > 10^-100 will underflow to 0), but I doubt that the TI uses 100 digits > anywhere. (Quote slightly modified) Point taken; the TI gets very close to 2.00 for my test and should show 2.00, but for the near-zero result, it should show the scientific-notation value it gets, not 0.00. Now I?m curious; I?ll have to try to get my TI running long enough to try this. Hopefully Pi and Sin are two of the keys with fewer bounce problems than the others?.and I really don?t know what I?ll do for a battery pack. Sigh. At least the cells look like standard Ni-Cads. And no, although I did think about trying to write an arbitrary-precision set of subroutines for the TI using multiple registers to represent a single number, I never did it and 100 digits of Pi, or 100 digits of Sin(x) function, would have been beyond my math/programming skills anyway. - Mark

12 years

Fwd: FS: Apple Lisa 2

by lproven＠gmail.com

Again, don't ask me - I am just passing this on... - LP ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Pam Tcath <ptcath at gmail.com> Date: 9 January 2014 18:06 Subject: FS: Apple Lisa 2 To: lemswap at googlegroups.com For sale is an Apple Lisa 2 updated (in-board hard drive and 3.5" Floppy Drive). It has been in an attic for 20+ years. It powers on, but since I have never had a Lisa before, I did not want to screw anything up and didn't test it further. The Keyboard and Mouse are in their original boxes inside the original Accessories box. Pictures available on request. Once cleaned and restored it could be museum quality as there is no structural cosmetic damage. I checked eBay this AM and the only Lisa 2 is $ 2500.00. My friend who runs an Apple Museum values a working Lisa 2 at $ 1500.00. I am asking $ 1200.00 postpaid CONUS. PayPal ONLY. Pam Tcath Cranston, RI 02910 -- You received this message because you are a member of the LEM Swap group. To post to this group, send email to lemswap at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe, send an email *from your subscribed address* to lemswap+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com LEM-Swap is not a discussion list; it is for buying & selling Mac stuff. Reply directly to the person who posted, never to the list. Software piracy is illegal and not allowed on LEM Swap. Except for freeware and software originally provided with computers, no software is to be left on hard drives unless the original installer (not a burned copy) is included, along with any required registration number, password, etc. Shipments valued at US$100 or more should be insured, and shipments valued at US$25 or more should be shipped so they can be tracked. See the list FAQ http://lowendmac.com/lists/swap.html for guidelines on postings, feedback, and dispute resolution. Seller feedback at http://groups.google.com/group/swap-feedback --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LEM Swap" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lemswap+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884

12 years

TI vs HP

by mtapley＠swri.edu

On Jan 9, 2014, at 1:40 AM, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > A program loadaed from magnetic card use the top row of keys (A-E) to > run it, Generally true. It?s also possible to label other keys as ?subroutine headers? and execute the subroutine from the keyboard (by for example hitting SBR Sin, if somewhere in the magnetic-card-loaded code is a PGM Sin (I think, been a while) followed by <code> followed by RTN. So it does help to have documentation with the magnetic stripe card. But for most cards, Tony is right, the 5 function keys were what called the pieces of code on the card. Also agreed with the other users, the ROM packs came with plain plastic label strips, which were totally superfluous if you had the documentation and could remember which key did what. - Mark

12 years

Lisp does NOT use RPN - Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 125, Issue 13

by toby＠telegraphics.com.au

>> It's the same kind of superior smugness you get from Lisp zealots, who >> also use >> ten-dollar words like "homoiconcity" and claim that it's the only tool >> that can >> bring us artificial intelligence, despite the fact that it has yet to >> actually >> produce any AI of note despite having been around for 56 years. It >> does however >> make sense once you realise that Lisp source code is also Polish >> Notation. > > It's not. Lisp does NOT use RPN. > ---------------------- My friendly Lisp expert (Quadrescence) clarifies me that Lisp does use Polish Notation per se (but not, of course, REVERSE Polish Notation). So this post is dedicated those people who occasionally wrongly claim that Lisp is RPN (though Peter Corlett does not appear to be making this claim). Sorry, Peter. I would dispute that Lisp has not delivered any meaningful AI, however. It was the substrate for decades of symbolic AI research, the fundamentals of which are neatly summarised in books like Norvig's Paradigms of AI Programming. --Toby > > Lisp uses prefix ordering ... > > There are languages that use RPN (I won't bother listing them) but Lisp > is not among them. > > --Toby

12 years

TI vs. HP

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, I?m siding with the peacemakers - if you find you think better in stack, use a stack-based machine like an HP. If you find you think better in parentheses, TI/Casio is clearly the way to go. I?m truly glad both exist. I have a couple of observations, though. 1) TI-59 and HP-41 were both powerful enough to program to emulate the other style. I had a relatively easy job programming my TI-59 to run RPN, using the A..E keys for the operations; my high-school friend with the HP-41 had a tougher time programming his machine to do parentheses, using function keys for ( and ). I picked the TI because at the time (~1979), it had nearly the same performance for a considerably lower price. However I now have awful keybounce issues on my -59 and my Dad?s HP-41CV is still going strong. My personal preference both for ease of use and (particularly) for programming is that the RPN machine is easier, but I do concur it takes a while more to get used to. However the difference was less important to me than the cost difference at the time. 2) I quibble with Tony?s recommendation to reject a machine that says Sin(Pi) = 0. I?m pretty sure the TI says that; the quicker but essentially equivalent test I always used to taunt my HP-41-equipped friend was (Sqrt(2))^2. The TI said 2, the HP said 1.99999? I claim both answers are correct. The HP is correct because the rounding error did appear, and the calculator correctly reflected its effect in the final result. However the TI answer is *also* correct because the TI does arithmetic to 13 digits, and displays only the high-order 10 digits. The rounding process from the truncated result to the displayed digits results in the 2.00.. answer which is displayed. I?ll freely admit that the 13-digit-calculation to 10-digit-display rounding process is concealing the truncation problem from me, and if I don?t know to look carefully for it (which can be done, by calculating (Sqrt(2))^2 -2, resulting in 1E-12 or so) I could be bitten badly by it when it finally *does* accumulate up into the displayable digits, or when I do an X=Y test that ?looks? like it should succeed, etc. But, I claim knowing this is part of being familiar with the tools you use, and incumbent on the user. Different tools, different characteristics; both powerful and effective, in my opinion. - Mark

12 years

Looking for Execuport 4000 manual

by lists＠loomcom.com

Hey folks, It's a long shot, but does anybody have a manual for an Execuport 4000 printing terminal? It was made by Computer Transceiver Systems, Inc. I haven't found it on Bitsavers, and Google isn't being very helpful. Thanks, -Seth

12 years

Wanted: Kaypro 16 disks

by james＠slor.net

If anyone has original (or copies of original) disk that shipped with the Kaypro 16 (the hard drive model, not the 16-2), I would love to get ahold of a set of floppies or images. I've probably posted this request more than once over the years, but I have yet to find a set of this software. If anyone can help me out, please drop me a line. Thanks! James

12 years

Televideo PM and Infoshare Manual/Media.. Archived anywhere?

by me＠GarrettMeiers.com

I picked up this set of Televideo PM and InfoShare Supervisor's Manual and Media last month. I don't see it on Bitsavers, unless I am missing it... Does anyone know if this is archived anywhere already? If not, I'll add it to my "to scan" and "to image" piles. ?https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yvvpgdth1o6ch26/-7_V9yLMOh#/? ?Thanks,? Garrett Meiers Founder, BitHistory.org & President, ConsulNIX, LLC www.BitHistory.org www.linkedin.com/in/theunixguy

12 years

2014 started off well here..

by jdr_use＠bluewin.ch

The local craigslist equivalent yielded a tiny advert "Imsai 8080 computer from 1977". price : 110 USD, negotiable.... The picture was a tiny B/W jpg lifted from the internet, and did not look too promising. The actual hardware ? An absolutely mint, as-new, IMSAI 8080... >from the orignal owner.... with full documtation, including original invoice... in the original IMSAI cardbox ! Also MPU-A and MIO cards.. 24 Kbytes of 2102 SRAM.. all ICs socketed.. with papertape software.... handpulled papertape reader... Needless to say no further price negotiations took place. About the only minus is the MDC-A4 floppy controller, which requires more difficult to find hardsectored disks. ( Original diskdrive and disks were scrapped a long time ago ) I will also need to find some extra s100 connectors to complete the backplane. it seems the '2014 project is defined ! Jos

12 years

WTB: Floppy disc test/service disc

by pinball＠telus.net

I'm looking for a service disc for the 3.5" (IBM-XT/AT vintage) drives (not 5-14") - does anyone have one for sale? Ideally this is the original as they came with ondisc faults for part of the testing procedure AIR. Thanks! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

12 years

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test-drb January 2014