On 11-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>When I look at the software (and hardware) of 10-15 years ago, I realise
>how far _down_ we've gone since then.
Very well put Jim! I know my Amiga 3000, which is my everyday system,
doesn't fit into the realm of this group (being roughly 6 years old), but it
is far superior to modern systems when it comes to usability and efficiency.
That is one of the reasons I appreciate the early micros so much....it's
amazing what was done by programmers and such in such tight constraints. Take
for example the Atari 800...this is a 2mhz 6502 cpu with 48k RAM and a full
Basic, with full-screen editing, in an 8k ROM. This system amazes me at the
animations and such I've seen on it at times. It's version of Frogger is
great, and I typed in a Basic program from 'Compute!' that displayed the Atari
logo with 128 colors onscreen at once. I think modern day systems could still
learn quite a few things from the earlier ones.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
Our local Goodwill has an old Bernoulli drive. Looks like a dual drive
that takes two 10 meg disk (or was it 5 meg?) cartridges that are about
10" square. Includes 1 disk. Anyway if this sounds interesting to
someone, I could snag it and ship it for cost. (probably $5 + shipping)
Greg
Several weeks ago, through a contact made here, I offered my Xerox 16/8
system to a fellow Canadian who lives in Saskatoon, and to whom I had
previously shipped a set of manuals for the TRS 80 Model 16. I never heard
if they arrived. And I can't get a reply to an e-mail from him so I'm
assuming he's incommunicado or uninterested.
So - I'm going to follow the suggestion made by our worthy founder and offer
it here.
I wish to dispose of my Xerox 16/8 system which is just sitting idle packed
away in it's original cartons. I'm not interested in selling the system.
It's free to whoever wants to pay the shipping charges. Can't beat the
price. But it's take the lot or take nothing!
It comprises:-
Xerox 16/8 Professional Computer system:-
1 Display Unit.
1 Rigid Drive + 5.25" Floppy Disk Expansion Module.
1 Keyboard and Mouse.
2 Shoe boxes full of 5.25" 360k diskettes, some original, some
copies, about 200 or so disks altogether.
Manuals, All in original covers and in excellent condition.
1 Operating System Reference Guide.
1 Technical Reference Manual
1 CP/M 80 & CP/M 86 Operating Systems Programmer's Information Manual.
1 Operations Manual.
1 MS-DOS Operating System Programmer's Reference Manual.
1 Business Graphics Reference Guide.
1 MS-DOS Operating System Reference Guide including:
1 - User's Guide &
1 - Macro Assembler Manual.
1 CP/M 80 & CP/M 86 Operating Systems Handbook.
1 MS-DOS Operating System Handbook.
1 Business Graphics Handbook.
1 dBase II Manual.
When I received the system from my vendor, last summer, I assembled it and
it worked beautifully. But I needed the space in my computer room for my
heavily upgraded Coleco-Adam which was my first computer. So the Xerox had
to be stored away and I'm concerned it may be deteriorating in my unheated loft.
So, either the Xerox continues sitting up in the loft, or someone wants it.
The problem is I live on Vancouver Island which means that shipping these 4
heavy cartons, 3 for the computer and 1 for the books and disks, could be
expensive. Even by bus. That's how they came to me from Vancouver.
I weighed each of the four packages that comprise the Xerox and it worked
out like this:-
Expansion Module (hard and floppy drives) weighs just under 35 lbs. I called
it 35#
Display unit weighs just under 35 lbs. I called it 35#.
Keyboard and Mouse weigh just under 10 lbs. I called it 10#
And the books and disks weigh just under 40 lbs. I called it 40#.
I also have a Kaypro Technical Manual covering the Kaypro 2, 2/4, 10. 2/84,
2X, 4/84, and ROBIE systems that I don't need.
Anyone interested can let me know by e-mail.
Cheers.
David Cobley.
Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech
and Hewlett-Packard Echoes.
Internet-dcobley(a)island.net, or,
davidc(a)macn.bc.ca
I can't believe you have Nova 1200's. I used a 1220 in the late 70's in
high school and it was old then.
Ours actually had a hard drive which was about 36" on a side, covered
with woodgrain vinyl, with a capacity of a MEGABYTE!!
I might still have the source to my Nova multiuser Star Trek around
someplace. It was so popular it got banned from the system since it
slowed everything down too much.
Kai
> ----------
> From: carl.friend@stoneweb.com[SMTP:carl.friend@stoneweb.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 1997 6:02 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Wanted Systems
>
> I've seen a certain amount of conversation as to the
> appropriateness
> of "For Sale" messages on the list. So long as it doesn't get out of
> hand, some of the posts can be quite useful (like the one on IMSAI
> switches, for instance). How about "Wanted Systems" posts?
>
> I'm looking to flesh out my collection of 16-bit Data General
> hardware, and am looking for leads to systems, or systems themselves.
> Anything in the Nova/Eclipse line is fair game, with the exception
> of the 32-bit MV series (although I hope somebody is preserving
> them!).
> Any documentation is, of course, more than welcome.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> | |
> |
> | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston
> |
> | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA
> |
> | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com |
> |
> | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46
> |
> |________________________________________________|____________________
> _|
>
At 11:11 PM 4/7/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Maybe <snif> we <snif> should<snif>n't <snif> allow <snif> posts like
>this!!!! BAWWWWWWWWWW BAWWWWWWWW BAAWWWBAWWWWBAWWWWWW
>
>I could NEVER afford the shipping. I could probably DRIVE there and
>PICK IT UP but not until summer BAWWWBAWWWWW
Tell you what, if I ever get another one, I'll save it until Summer and you
can drive from wherever you are and pick it up. Deal?
Cheers,
David Cobley.
Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech
and Hewlett-Packard Echoes.
Internet-dcobley(a)island.net, or,
davidc(a)macn.bc.ca
I've seen a certain amount of conversation as to the appropriateness
of "For Sale" messages on the list. So long as it doesn't get out of
hand, some of the posts can be quite useful (like the one on IMSAI
switches, for instance). How about "Wanted Systems" posts?
I'm looking to flesh out my collection of 16-bit Data General
hardware, and am looking for leads to systems, or systems themselves.
Anything in the Nova/Eclipse line is fair game, with the exception
of the 32-bit MV series (although I hope somebody is preserving them!).
Any documentation is, of course, more than welcome.
Thanks!
--
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
Ok, I admit it. You really *can* find more stuff these few weeks. I went
to car boot sale today and got three machines (five, were I willing to shell
out for two C64Cs with a floppy drive and a PSU between them).
I'm not the proud owner of a Spectrum 48k (at last!) in mint condition and
a Spectrum +2A in even better shape. I actually got the +2A at half the
price of the 48k -- 5 pounds for the +2A (around $7? Not sure) as opposed to
10 pounds for the 48k. There was another +2A for sale at the outrageous
price of 15 pounds (at least I *hope* I heard 15 -- at that noise level, it
could have been -gasp- 50).
Anyway, enough about the Spectra (sic). :-)
There's another find I might need a little help with. It's not strictly a
computer, it's a video game (Video Entertainment System, as it says on the
front panel). Specifically, an Acetronic MPU-1000. The PCB has a Radofin
label on it. There are two analog joysticks with two red fire buttons and a
12 button keypad each. They're connected to the unit with spiral cable (no
plugs). The controllers are designed to take overlays to give meaning to the
12 unmarked keys. I don't have any overlays, but there are four carts:
Invaders, cart #1 (Olympics -- actually a more or less standard set of
Pong-like games), cart #11 (Super Maze -- remember A-Maze-ing on the TI? It's
very similar. Analogue control of the players is quite tricky), and cart #13
(Circus -- I haven't figured this one out yet due to the erratic behaviour
of one of the controllers [read: vertical axis doesn't work properly, fire
button won't]). The cartridges claim to be "suitable for Acetronic, Radofin
1292 & Prinztronic microprocessor systems".
Does anyone have any ideas about this? Is it common or uncommon? The name
Radofin was familiar, after a bit of research it turns out it's the company
that bought the rights to the Aquarius. Any technical information would be
welcome, since I can't identify either of the LSI ICs on the PCB (yes, two
of them).
Oh, by the way, in the highly unlikely case this is amazingly rare and the
only one left on the planet (unlikely because at least another person on the
WWW has one, albeit an MPU-2000), I obtained this at the silly price of 2
UK pounds. The previous owners seemed a bit amazed at the fact that someone
might actually be *INTERESTED* in that piece of junk. Can't complain,
really. :-)
Thanks,
Alexios
--------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. -------------------------------
Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88' alexios(a)vennea.demon.co.uk
The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc(a)dcs.ed.ac.uk
At 06:01 PM 3/31/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I was talking to a friend this weekend who brought
>up this idea that before long EPROMs in our old
>computers are going to start to go bad. This is
>something I've heard before but, to be honest, I
>don't know enough to make a judgement on it. If
>this is the case, I suppose I should be burning
>backups.
>
>While I'm at it... What are some other concerns
>along these lines. What should we be planning
>for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older?
Good questions all, so some comments and some thoughts.
EPROMS: yes, they will forget. Being stored charge devices they will
eventually start to lose the stored information. As I recall the original
estimated life for stored data was 10-15 years. Punched tape (mylar
preferably or paper if stored properly) may be the closest thing we have to
a true "archival" medium.
Electrolytic Capacitors: They dry out, or will start to ooze the
electrolyte. (I address this to some extent on the 'Repair Tips & Tricks'
section on my web pages) Average lifetime (of large caps such as found in
power supplies) is probably 5-10 years. On machines that I restore they
are (almost) always replaced before I do anything else. The very small
caps found on logic boards for timing and similar circuits do not seem to
be a prone to failure.
Disks: depends highly on how they are stored. Should be treated similar
to records. (remember those?) Store upright, loosely packed, dry but cool.
Watch for oxide flaking on very old disks.
Tapes: similar to disks for storage. Should be retensioned (repacked?)
>from time to time. (fast forward to end, then rewind) As with disks,
watch for oxide flaking. Dampness will cause some tapes to adhere to
itself, and strip off the oxide when run. Had this happen to my "Standard
Pack" tape for an HP-85 I obtained recently. Went to load the tape and got
a read error. Manual inspection of the tape showed a 3/4 inch strip where
there was no oxide at all. it was stripped away by the tape adhesion when
I rewound the tape for probably the first time in 4-5 years!
Card edge connectors: corrosion is common, expecially is stored in damp
places or contaminated by skin oils. Can be cleaned with the classic "Pink
Pearl" eraser. (Don't use the grey erasers - too abrasive!)
Hmmm... probably more, but it's late and I forget... (often it seems - bad
EPROM?)
More later...
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
On 07-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>I picked up an Atari 1040ST today for $25 -- as is. No cables, no manuals,
>no floppy disks, nothing. I figured I'd be able to build up a little
>working system (if the thing still works), but need some help.
>If anyone here knows of any resources for floppy disks, manuals (i.e. how
>do I plug this thing in?), etc. please let me know -- I'd like to put this
>computer to use in my studio -- it has MIDI In/Out, and there's some cool
>software for it and one of my synthesizers that I've been meaning to check
>out.
The 1040ST is a nice system, but you'll need to find one of the Atari
monitors for it, such as the SM-124 (very nice mono) or the SC-1224 (color).
You don't need an OS disks for it, as the OS is built into ROM, and it uses
standard PC 720k disks. For software and such, Toad Computers in Severna, MD
is a good resource..and they even sell TOS upgrades and refurb monitors.
Atari's have been their specialty for years. Hope this helps.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
