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101090 discussions

Who changed the gravitational constant (Dec pdp11 stuff)

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

I do not remember these RL02 drives being this heavy..... https://i.imgur.com/7BwIwas.jpg On a slightly more interesting note it looks like I only have RL02 drives (3) and do not have any RL01 drives. That could be a problem if I want to re-load Cobol 81 onto this RSTS/E system. However the RL02's *should* allow me to reboot RSX11M 4.2 and repair the instance of RSX11M 4.0 that is on my Fujitsu drive (damaged). Likewise my RT11 images might be on RL01. However I do have the Plessey disk drive that emulated 4 RK05's on a fixed platter and a removable platter disk subsystem (which uses disks that look like RL01's but are *NOT* RL01's) and I *think* I had either RT11 with MUBASIC or a really weird Gen of RSX11M and RT11. Though I'm not sure if RSX11M would run on RK05's as boot devices (2.5mb of space) The dig continues. This weekend I'll see if I can fire a RL02 up.

6 years, 6 months

ISO: I/O panel for Wangco ST-2222 (or similar) drive

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- Picked up a mostly complete Wangco ST-2222 drive recently. This is a removable pack drive with one fixed platter, nominally Diablo 30 / RK05 compatible in terms of interface, but uses IBM 5540-style packs. It's in good condition and I'd like to restore it and see if I can interface it to an RK11. The part I'm missing is the I/O panel -- on this particular model there was a breakout board that bolted to the rear of the rack the drive was mounted in (rather than being mounted to the back of the drive), and it contained some buffers, level shifters, drive select logic, and the actual interface connectors. There were two variants of this -- 301062 was the Diablo 30/31 style (with the big Winchester blocks) and 301291 had a more generic interface with what looks like centronics-style connectors. (You can see assembly drawings of them in the schematic here: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/wangco/301462-002_Super_Series_Magnetic_Disk_Opera…, pages 55 and 69). I figure it's a long shot, but does anyone have one of these two boards going spare, or have a similar drive (others in the ST family share the same panel, it seems) that is in unrestorable/parts-donor condition they could steal one from? Thanks, Josh

6 years, 6 months

UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

by j_hoppe＠t-online.de

>2. When doing 18bit on UNIBUS-A we put all kind of signal levels >on parity lines PA,PB = DATA<16:17>. >Won't the KS10 CPU interpret these as real BUS parity errors generated >by some UNIBUS-A device? I asked nonsense here: if UNIBUS-A is 18bit too, no parity will be evaluted of course. Joerg

6 years, 6 months

UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 22:13:30 -0500 > From: Chris Zach <cz at alembic.crystel.com> > Subject: Re: UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1 > > One of my long term questions has been to see if a 2020 could talk to a > RM80. It should be possible as the Massbus personality module talks to > the bus at 3600 RPM just like the RM03, and they did manage to get the > R80 to talk to the 11/730 with a dedicated memory channel connection > (though maybe the R80 was heavily interleaved) > > C > ITS could boot from an RM80 on a 2020. -- Michael Thompson

6 years, 6 months

UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> maybe the two can be jumpered together (the way the two UNIBI in the > KD11-A/D can). Actually, now that I think about it, that might be the reason for the order of the UNIBUS A out B in/out slots in the backplane: https://gunkies.org/wiki/RH11_MASSBUS_controller#Backplane_layout One of those thin M9200 UNIBUS jumpers could be used to connect the A out to the B in. > Depends what you mean by "full-length"; no MUD (hex) slots, but yes to > SPC slots (SPC) Oooh, typo: 'SPC slots (quad)' Noel `

6 years, 6 months

UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

by j_hoppe＠t-online.de

* *Messages sorted by:* [ date ] <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2019-November/date.html#41793> [ thread ] <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2019-November/thread.html#41793> [ subject ] <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2019-November/subject.html#41793> [ author ] <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2019-November/author.html#41793> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Although, with the 3 SPC slots - although they are on UNIBUS A, and only >> UNIBUS B has the 18-bit capability > > It is of course perfectly possible to run UNIBUS _A_ (where the SPC slots are) > in 18-bit mode too - although the _RH11_ can't use it that way. But you won't > be using the RH11 anyway, so who cares? > >Also, I took another look at the KS10 tech manual, and they do in fact use use >an M9200 'thin' jumper (although it's mis-labelled "M9300" in the diagram - >that diagram has a number of errors, including the "M8014" in the UNIBUS 'A' >In slot - they must mean an M9014 [UNIBUS to 3 flat cables] instead) to link >the two UNIBI together. Which answers the question of how the KS10 CPU gained >access to UNIBUS A (where the device registers, interrupts, etc are) when it >also had to be connected to UNIBUS B (for 18-bit data transfers). > >So I think all our questions are answerered (except for the -AB/-C difference >issue). So I understand right: UniBone can be used in UNIBUS-A SPC slots in 18 bit mode without any extra adapters? And can emulate an RH11-C there, even if the RH11 is supposed to run in UNIBUS B? Thats good news. Two more things to check: 1. We've seen early SPC slots (PDP-11/40, '45) without NPG wired, 'cause SPC was apparently originally meant for "Small" peripherals without DMA. Is KS10 UNIBUS-A wired to be DMA capable? 2. When doing 18bit on UNIBUS-A we put all kind of signal levels on parity lines PA,PB = DATA<16:17>. Won't the KS10 CPU interpret these as real BUS parity errors generated by some UNIBUS-A device? best regards Joerg

6 years, 6 months

UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: J?rg Hoppe > did DEC construct 18bit mutants for a few PDP-11 peripherals to run > them in KS10? Yes and no. There were two 18-bit UNIBUS devices, but they were originally done for the PDP-15 (DEC's last 18-bit machine). They were the RK11-E and the RH11-AB. When the KS10 appeared, the RH11 was re-purposed for it. (How the RH11-C in the KS20 differed I'm not sure. I know it used the M7294-YA instead of the M7294, but I'm not sure how that differed. It's the MASSBUS data buffer and control, so it's something MASSBUS related. The RH11-AB already has the 18-bit stuff; see 4.16 "Logic Diagram DBCE", pg. 4-28 (65 of the PDF) in "RH11-AB Option Description" for details; it's poorly documented.) > From: Daniel Seagraves > There's still the problem of the disk Unibus itself to solve - the disk > UBA doesn't terminate into a normal Unibus. It goes into the disk RH11 > directly, and the bus is terminated on the far end of the RH11. ... The > ideal scenario would be if the first slot of a RH11 (where the bus > jumper comes in) can accommodate the (quad card) Unibone without > issues, the rest of the RH11 boards can simply be pulled without > breaking bus continuity The RH11-C seems like it's very similar to the RH11-AB, physically. Both the 'disk' and 'tape' RH11-C's seem like they are separate 9-slot system units, with the same layout (in terms of boards->slots). Both have 3 Small Peripheral Controller slots, like the -AB. The first slot is purpose-wired to hold the M7296 and M7297: https://gunkies.org/wiki/RH11_MASSBUS_controller#Backplane_layout so 'no' to that idea. Although, with the 3 SPC slots - although they are on UNIBUS A, and only UNIBUS B has the 18-bit capability - although maybe the two can be jumpered together (the way the two UNIBI in the KD11-A/D can). (IIRC, the "RH11 Peripheral Controller Course" may talk about that.) I don't think things will work with the RH11 boards pulled, unless you manually jumper whatever pins are used to feed NPG and BG? through the device. Probably the easiest thing is to change the bus address of the RH11. > From: Chris Zach > I seem to recall that the RH11C included a full length unibus slot > after the boards Depends what you mean by "full-length"; no MUD (hex) slots, but yes to SPC slots (SPC) - as above. Noel

6 years, 6 months

UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

by j_hoppe＠t-online.de

>> Well, I was expecting to have to do all of the work myself. There?s still the problem of the disk Unibus itself to solve > -the disk UBA doesn?t terminate into a normal Unibus. > It goes into the disk RH11 directly, and the bus is terminated on the far end of the RH11. I?d either have to buy another Unibus backplane to plug the Unibone into, or find a way to plug the cables from the UBA directly into the Unibone. >This still leaves the issue of terminating the bus. > The ideal scenario would be if the first slot of a RH11 (where the bus jumper comes in) can accommodate the (quad card) > Unibone without issues, the rest of the RH11 boards can simply be pulled without breaking bus continuity, > and the normal terminator in the far slot can be used. I haven?t looked at any prints or anything yet. I gave UniBone a set of pinheaders for all UNIBUS signals in parallel to the gold fingers. So an adapter board can be designed, which plugs onto the pinheaders, contains some provision for the UBA connection and contains the terminator array. The UBA-UniBone adapter may consist of two parts coupled via flat cable, with flipchip plugs on one end if necessary. All this is only mildly annoying, did similar before, for example http://www.retrocmp.com/tools/uniprobe > Right, there were two unibus ports on a 2020: The first one went to the > RH11-C and was very odd in that "Hog Mode DMA" was enabled to allow the > device to just stream data as much as it wanted to the controller. This > would mean that other devices on the bus would time out and not have > their interrupts serviced, but since the RH11 was the only thing it > didn't matter (and I think this is why you could use RM03's instead of > RM02's: The whole track could be read and buffered to the 2020's UBA > controller in one shot. > That would have to be programmed into the BBB software to ignore the 16 word > DMA limits and go as fast as the drive can go). As the disk drives are also emulated, they are not putting any constraints on the DMA logic: give them the speed and DMA length you prefer. Joerg

6 years, 6 months

Got it: RD54 formatting write protect solved

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

Figured it out at last. On a BA23, the RD54 needs to be jumpered at the disk as UNIT 3, and I had it as unit 4. Thus the jumper needed to be between 3 and C, I had it one stake over between 4 and C. Fixed that, did the format where you do not select Autoformat, and downline load UIT and you get the disk going tick, tick, tick as the sectors are formatted. Here is Terry Kennedy's instructions updated to a BA23 instead of a BA123: DR> STA CHANGE HW (L) ? Y # UNITS (D) ? 1 UNIT 0 Enter controller IP address (O) 172150 ? What unit do you want to format [0-255] (D) 0 ? 0 Would you like to revector a single LBN only [Y/N] (L) N ? Do you want to use the "AUTOFORMAT" Mode [Y/N] (L) Y ? N Would you like to use the RCT - Revector known bad blocks [Y/N] (L) N ? **** WARNING **** [text about don't proceed if you're just kidding deleted] Do you wish to continue [Y/N] (L) Y ? MSCP Controller Model: 19 Microcode Version: 4 Do you want to use manufacturing bad block information [Y/N] (A) N ? Downline load UIT [Y/N] (A) Y ? UIT Drive Name ------------------------------------------------------- 0 RD51 1 RD52 part # 30-21721-02 (1 light on front panel) 2 RD52 part # 30-23227-02 (2 lights on front panel) 3 RD53 4 RD31 5 RD54 6 RD32 Enter Unit Identifier Table (UIT) [0-7] (D) ? 5 Continue if bad block information is inaccessible [Y/N] (A) N ? Y Please type in the serial number [8-10 digits] (A) ? 013284212 (use whatever you want) Formatting of Drive 1 Begin. [a long sequences of messages is displayed here, 1 per minute, showing the progress of formatting and what step is in progress on which block number.] Format Completed. And Bob's your uncle!

6 years, 6 months

Meantime, fixing RX50's.

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

So while trying to figure out this XXDP format error (the FCT Write protect enabled one that's stopping me from formatting an RD54) I spent a bit of time copying the floppy to a backup disk. My RX50 was *very* flakey, throwing errors so I pulled it to see what was up. Opened the unit and sure enough: The disk head could use a cleaning, and more important the little pad on the other side came off when I touched it. Apparently the glue holding it in has decayed in the past 30 years. Drat. Used isopropyl and q tips to clean the heads, then broke a Q tip in half and put a bit of cyanacryllic glue on the tip, then transferred it to the pad holder, then put the pad back on. Pressed down and breathed on it to give the glue some moisture and waited an hour. Did same to other head. RX50 now works perfectly, and I was able to make and boot a backup. So if your RX50 is flakey check to see if the pads are still on the head assembly, it's possible it is loose or fell off (if fell off look around in the RX50 for it, probably in there somewhere) Never dull. Now to figure out this write protection issue: I have set the drive to unit 4 (well 3 in the 0-3 world), set the RQDX3 to pins 1 and 2 on the write precomp jumper, and it still comes up but thinks the drive is write protected. Drat.

6 years, 6 months

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