On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that
:make me want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic
:computers in the dumpster just so I would no longer have to count
:myself among your company.
:Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may
:call it a steaming pile of horseshit as well.
hey, kai, calm down, everyone has to start somewhere... ;>
seriously, we very much doubt that everyone in microsoft is set upon
filling the world with shite software that slows everything to a dawdle
and destroys competition. however, what peeves us is (a) that microsoft
*have* eliminated competition to a large extent - it's just not healthy!
especially when mr gates has to resort to injecting cash into his most
innovative competitor to keep them in that position (hell, alive!) - and
(b) that microsoft produce software with the emphasis perpetually on
getting people into computers, widening the accessibility of machines,
but not really improving in the way that people who need to use and
develop with computers for a living require. microsoft, even more than
apple these days, produces software "for the rest of us" (inasmuch as
the rest of 'em don't try anything ambitious) but microsoft products
don't include the necessary hooks and extensibility whereby an expert
can get through the easy-features and do things properly with the
minimum of interruption.
if you can carry that message back to the powers that be, we'd all be
very much happier out here. we'd still be worried about the future,
because of the lack of competition, but at least it might not be a
future of unmitigated mediocrity.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net>
>If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back
>and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone
>to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to
>convey an idea in your native tongue.
>
Although English would be preferred despite the fact that it is not the
native tongue worldwide ;-)
Regards
Pete
At 06:01 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>> Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of
>> interest in collecting old IBM?
>
>Yes. That and the general unhackability of the minis. And that most people
>hate them. And that most universities had DECs and such in their CS
>departments. And the weird parts.
>
>But wait...
>
[snip]
>
>I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk.
>They really are not.
Amen. You just need manuals, lots and lots of them.
>I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of
>*IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read
>revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of
>inovations are commonplace today. Other systems, like some of the minis,
>have bizarre architectures that, once inside, are fascinating. A lack of
>decent development tools, however, is a real crutch. C for the S/3x line
>(even Small-C) would be great.
I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM midrange and
mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the
philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out
of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was
supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business
rules at IBM.
>Anyway, send me your old IBMs, size it not a problem (while I gaze at the
>photo of the multiprocessing S/370 installation).
I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd still like to get a 5360 to
run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out
of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even
think about it.
>
>William Donzelli
>william(a)ans.net
>
>
>
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
<Does anyone know of a more-or-less comprehensive history of Operating
<Systems online? I'd like to come up to speed on the OSs that are being
Unknown try alta vista.
<I'd be very interested to see a geneology tree--I've noticed some Unix
<genes in DOS (few) and I'm told it was based in part on things CP/M was
<doing at the time.
The dos geneology is roughly...
DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)--> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11-->
CPM-80-->
CPM86-->
dos-1.0-->
The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree.
DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix
has been an influence but largely not that great.
UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some
of which even resemble each other.
Allison
Anybody got info on a Nat. Semi. 57109 "Number Oriented Processor"?
I've got one on a "calculator interface" board, that I suspect was
a primitive math coprocessor. I'd love to get specs on it, and/or
replacement chips in case this one dies.
advTHANKSance,
Bill.
I've just received notice of a system....
"have you heard of a Tandata Td-1600? It was one of those Telecom
computers I believe. It has a Z1 chip in it (whatever that may be) which I
know is not a Z-80 but may be of interest to you just the same. It has a
PS and all the right lights seem to be working. RF and RGB monitor
outputs."
I have no idea what this thing is. Have any of the readers of this list any
more information?
Cheers
A
Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I
have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but
would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in
operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps?
I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to
build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun.
--
David Wollmann |
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products.
DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for
IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.
>
>On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
>
>> Besides, I name all my machines after
>> Sailormoon characters. -------
What names are these (I'm not familiar w/sailor moon)?
>
>I name systems on my home network after ships from different
>anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes
>from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for
>my PDP-11/34 yet.
I find that if I ever want to address my system by name, I had better
not say it anyway ;)
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<Marty wrote:
<>
<> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or
<> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two
<> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly
<> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and
<> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives.
It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been
the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series.
I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also
available and CPM as well from third parties.
Allison
<I name systems on my home network after ships from different
<anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes
I name mine after light aircraft.
Piper, Cessna, Mooney, Beech, J3CUB, STINSN and an oddball vaxen that
was with me during my DEC days VIDSYS::.
I have to name a unix pdp11 now.
Allison
