20 Jul
2010
20 Jul
'10
6:13 a.m.
Johnny Billquist wrote:
"Jerome H.
Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
I would not assume anything until I actually had
tested the presence
or absence of a
specific "feature".
What have any features have to do with this?
I'm telling you that RTEM-11 will not, and never have been capable of
running on a VAX.
If there was a RTEM product for the VAX, it would have to be a
separate product, with a separate code base from RTEM-11, since you
cannot write a RT-11 emulator of any kind in PDP-11 mode on a VAX. It
will have to be VAX code. And thus, it can not be the same product as
a RT-11 emulator program written to run under RSX. >> In
addition, I also suspect that both Johnny and Ethan are
correct in >> that RTEM
>> was supported under both RSX and VMS on an older VAX which allowed
>> compatibility mode.
> It would have to be totally separate products in that case. >> I don''t know if Megan Gentry is
still around or perhaps Allison
or >> one of the
>> other DEC fellows. Perhaps they might at least know something
about >> which
>> hardware and operating system(s) supported RTEM?
I definitely remember (and probably still have
some mail
somewhere) > from Megan mentioning that she used RTEM-11 for RT-11
work, running on > RSX machines. Possibly even an 11/74. >> In
addition, RSTS/E also supported RT-11 programs via the
SWITCH RT11
>> capability. However, only the RT-11 EMTs which are used by a SJ
are >> supported
>> by RSTS/E. At least there is quite reasonable documentation as
well >> as the ability
>> to test and actually run RT-11 programs under RSTS/E up to the
latest >> versions
>> of RSTS/E. RT-11 EMTs for mapped RT-11 monitors (RT11XM) are
not >> supported
>> not are multi-terminal EMTs. Also, probably the latest RT-11
EMTs >> for file status
>> information are also not supported under RSTS/E.
The correct technical term is that RSTS/E have a
RT-11 *run time >
system*. An RTS in RSTS/E provides an environment under which
you
can > get a specific behaviour. So you had RTSes for RT-11, RSX,
BASIC+, > TECO, DCL and some other stuff. Some RTSes were also KBMs
(keyboard > monitors), meaning you could "switch" to them, and get
an interactive > command line interpreter with that. But the RTS
mostly implemented > system calls. However, there were RTSes which
didn't implement any > system calls, and only gave you the basic
calls RSTS/E itself > provided, and mostly focused on being a KBM,
such as DCL. Actually, my testing seems to show that RSTS/E
supports being able to
run RT-11 programs even if the RT-11 RTS is not activated. For example:
RUN MACRO
is possible if the RTS is normal RSTS/E or RT-11. This might be
based on the
file type. RSTS/E may determine that MACRO.SAV is an RT-11 program and
support the RT-11 EMT requests. Or RSTS/E may support naked RT-11 EMT
requests from any program. That is something I should test.
No, you are confusing things, and making wild guesses.
What do you mean by "activated"? There is no activation. If an RTS is
installed, it will always be used for programs that are marked as
requiring that RTS. This is an "attribute" of a file. Whenever that
file is run, it is run under the indicated RTS. If you try to run a
program that requires an RTS that don't exist I would suspect that
you'll get an error. Also, if you type "RUN MACRO", how do you
know that you are even
running the RT-11 version? RSTS/E normally also have an RSX RTS
available, and an MACRO.TSK, which is MACRO-11 running under the RSX RTS.
When MACRO.SAV is run (under the RSTS/E RTS or any other RTS or under
any other operating system including RT-11 and TSX-Plus, it is simple to
just
type <RETURN> at the "*" prompt to obtain the version number and so
identify
which program is being run.
There is no RSTS/E RTS, by the way.
Does the file type trigger the use of that RTS?
Unless my memory have totally rotted away, the answer is no. The RTS
associated with a file is an attribute of the file, just like file
protection. There is a switch to PIP that you can use to check, and
set, the RTS.
That said, all RTS have a default file extension as well, and I think
that is used to search for runnable files if you just type "RUN MACRO"
for example.
That answer helps quite a bit. Thank you!
All exeutable files have an RTS associated with it,
and when the >
program is run, it is run under that RTS, which then handles all
EMTs > and so on when the program executes them. I do have a
question. With V7 of RSTS/E, the FIT program is able to
copy files from a drive with an RT-11 file structure (such as an RX02)
to the RSTS/E file structure. My initial testing with V10.1 of RSTS/E
shows that (at the very least the distribution which I am using) does
not
have a FIT program. Is there some other method of making a copy of
a file on an RX02 with an RT-11 file structure to a device with a RSTS/E
file structure?
Either FIT, or some "new" program that does the same thing, I'd guess.
I'm no expert on RSTS/E, and my experience is old. I mostly ran RSTS/E
between V7.1 and V9.0, with the majority of my time in the V7-V8
timeframe. Also, is it
possible to run an RT-11 program under a DEBUG mode? It
would be much easier to check out the code if that is possible. At the
moment, I can check most of the code under RT-11. However, the
portion which runs in a different manner under RSTS/E as opposed to
RT-11 since RSTS/E does not support all RT-11 EMT requests in the
same manner as RT-11.
What do you mean by "debug" mode???