25 Jan
1998
25 Jan
'98
7:21 a.m.
IT IS CARBON TETRACHLORIDE that produces phosgene when it is
reduced on a hot surface. Carbon tet
(tetrachloromethane) hasn't been
available for 30 years! Funny how legends continue to spread. :)
H'm. Sorry for shooting off my mouth. Computers (peecees, anyway...) I
know, but chem is not my cuppa tea.
manney
25 Jan
25 Jan
4:14 p.m.
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, PG Manney wrote:
IT IS CARBON TETRACHLORIDE that produces phosgene when
it is
That's ok, old warnings from the past are hard to get rid of. One
that I heard just tonight was "if you aren't careful when you make your
own booze you can go blind". This came from the era when alcohol was
prohibited, and some unsavory people would repackage denatured alcohol
(ethanol with a percentage of methanol in it to render it poisonous so if
you drink it you will either go blind, or die, thus prevent you from
getting pleasure from UNTAXED alcohol). After a while, they switched to
formula 19 (methyl isobutyl ketone I think) as the denaturant so you don't
go blind or die, but you _wish_ you were dead. To this day people think
you can go blind from homemade booze. :-/ Some stories never die.....sq
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reduced on a hot surface. Carbon tet
(tetrachloromethane) hasn't been
available for 30 years! Funny how legends continue to spread. :)
H'm. Sorry for shooting off my mouth. Computers (peecees, anyway...) I
know, but chem is not my cuppa tea. 
11:18 p.m.
At 01:14 AM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, PG Manney wrote:
FWIW It wasn't just denatured alcohol that made you go blind. It was
the lead solder that some people used to solder the copper together to make
stills from. The old time moon shiners put copper stills together without
solder but during prohibition a lot of quickie stills were put together
with gobs of solder and the lead would leach out. Anyone here ever study
moon shining? Fasinating subject (except to Sam of course).
Joe
IT IS CARBON TETRACHLORIDE that produces phosgene
when it is
That's ok, old warnings from the past are hard to get rid of. One
that I heard just tonight was "if you aren't careful when you make your
own booze you can go blind". This came from the era when alcohol was
prohibited, and some unsavory people would repackage denatured alcohol
(ethanol with a percentage of methanol in it to render it poisonous so if
you drink it you will either go blind, or die, thus prevent you from
getting pleasure from UNTAXED alcohol). After a while, they switched to
formula 19 (methyl isobutyl ketone I think) as the denaturant so you don't
go blind or die, but you _wish_ you were dead. To this day people think
you can go blind from homemade booze. :-/ Some stories never die.....sq reduced on a hot surface. Carbon tet
(tetrachloromethane) hasn't been
available for 30 years! Funny how legends continue to spread. :)
H'm. Sorry for shooting off my mouth. Computers (peecees, anyway...) I
know, but chem is not my cuppa tea.
--
-<squest(a)cris.com>---------\ ( ( | ) ) Amendment1 Congress shall make
============================> /_\ no law abridging the freedom
MicroPower FM Broadcasting-/ /\_/\ of speech, or of the press.
26 Jan
26 Jan
6:02 a.m.
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Joe wrote:
Actually, this isn't correct either. It wasn't the "joints"
soldered with lead based solder that was the problem. You see, there can
be lead anywhere the mash boils, or anywhere the steam exists, but WHERE
THE LIQUID CONDENSES, it needs to be pure copper, pure nickel, whatever.
What the moonshiners were doing was using OLD TRUCK RADIATORS as
condensers, and if you look inside a radiator, especially an old one, you
see that all the copper pieces are sweat-soldered together. About 25% of
the condensation surface in a radiator is solder. THAT was the problem.
FYI, lead doesn't cause you to go blind, but causes neurological damage,
insanity, the like. :) Keep your condensation surface pure copper and
you'll be ok. :) If you buy moonshine and want to make sure it is pure,
you can pass it through an aluminum salt (can't remember which one tho)
that will precipitate the lead out. However, best advice, make your own,
that way you know your product is pure, because you made your own
condenser. A side note, an all GLASS condensation device is best! Just
buy a laboratory grade liebig condenser and you're all set...........sq
--
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============================> /_\ no law abridging the freedom
MicroPower FM Broadcasting-/ /\_/\ of speech, or of the press.
That's ok,
old warnings from the past are hard to get rid of. One
that I heard just tonight was "if you aren't careful when you make your
own booze you can go blind". This came from the era when alcohol was
prohibited, and some unsavory people would repackage denatured alcohol
(ethanol with a percentage of methanol in it to render it poisonous so if
you drink it you will either go blind, or die, thus prevent you from
getting pleasure from UNTAXED alcohol). After a while, they switched to
FWIW It wasn't just denatured alcohol that made you go blind. It was
the lead solder that some people used to solder the copper together to make
stills from. The old time moon shiners put copper stills together without
solder but during prohibition a lot of quickie stills were put together
with gobs of solder and the lead would leach out. Anyone here ever study
moon shining? Fasinating subject (except to Sam of course). 
12:47 a.m.
That's ok, old warnings from the past are hard to
get rid of. One
that I heard just tonight was "if you aren't careful when you make your
own booze you can go blind". This came from the era when alcohol was
prohibited, and some unsavory people would repackage denatured alcohol
(ethanol with a percentage of methanol in it to render it poisonous so if
you drink it you will either go blind, or die, thus prevent you from
getting pleasure from UNTAXED alcohol). After a while, they switched to
formula 19 (methyl isobutyl ketone I think) as the denaturant so you don't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, so *thats* why modern denatured alcohol smells like that! I
recently bought some from a hardware store to clean circuit boards,
and it smelled very strange to me-- it had an MEK 'edge' to it. The
last time I used denatured alcohol was almost twenty years ago-- I
was un-aware that they had changed the 'formula'.
Anyway, I'm seriously considering shelling out some real $$$ for
ethanol-- this new denatured stuff leaves a residue which the old
formula did not. (Anybody remember 'Zeracol' ?)
Jeff
6:51 a.m.
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote:
They changed it because ethanol/methanol mix is pleasant smelling,
people might WANT to take a drink. Drinking results in blindness or
death. By using 4% methyl isobutyl ketone (that's it, I checked) people
take a whiff, it stinks, they take a sip, it tastes horrible, they drink
anyway, they become violently ill (projectile vomiting) but they don't
die, and they don't go blind. This is formula 19, formula 1 is 5%
methanol, formula 2 was .5% benzene, so you can see the trend now is less
to kill the non-tax-paying drinkers, and more to just make them sick.
formula 19
(methyl isobutyl ketone I think) as the denaturant so you don't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, so *thats* why modern denatured alcohol smells like that! I
recently bought some from a hardware store to clean circuit boards,
and it smelled very strange to me-- it had an MEK 'edge' to it. The
last time I used denatured alcohol was almost twenty years ago-- I
was un-aware that they had changed the 'formula'. Anyway, I'm seriously considering shelling out
some real $$$ for
ethanol-- this new denatured stuff leaves a residue which the old
formula did not. (Anybody remember 'Zeracol' ?)
Just use straight methanol, it's poisonous, but not too stinky,
and should NOT leave a residue. Either that or pure acetone. You don't
have to use ethanol for just cleaning purposes, besides, cleaning boards I
find 99% isopropyl alcohol works best, you can't drink it, it's cheap, and
it's pure. :) Buy it at the drugstore, it's used for cleaning the
injection site for diabetics, just ask for it at the back counter.......sq
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============================> /_\ no law abridging the freedom
MicroPower FM Broadcasting-/ /\_/\ of speech, or of the press.
9:14 a.m.
At 08:47 AM 1/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
Jeff,
I don't know if it's true but I've been told that different companys use
different things to "denature" alcohol. I was told that they can use any
additive that makes the alcohol undrinkable and that one common addative is
kerosene. FWIW I usw A LOT of denatured alcohol for cleanning electronics
and the brand that I use does not seem to leave a resisdue. I've had no
problems using it. I can find the original can and get the brand name if
you like.
Joe
That's ok, old warnings from the past are
hard to get rid of. One
that I heard just tonight was "if you aren't careful when you make your
own booze you can go blind". This came from the era when alcohol was
prohibited, and some unsavory people would repackage denatured alcohol
(ethanol with a percentage of methanol in it to render it poisonous so if
you drink it you will either go blind, or die, thus prevent you from
getting pleasure from UNTAXED alcohol). After a while, they switched to
formula 19 (methyl isobutyl ketone I think) as the denaturant so you don't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, so *thats* why modern denatured alcohol smells like that! I
recently bought some from a hardware store to clean circuit boards,
and it smelled very strange to me-- it had an MEK 'edge' to it. The
last time I used denatured alcohol was almost twenty years ago-- I
was un-aware that they had changed the 'formula'.
Anyway, I'm seriously considering shelling out some real $$$ for
ethanol-- this new denatured stuff leaves a residue which the old
formula did not. (Anybody remember 'Zeracol' ?)
Jeff
8:58 a.m.
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Joe wrote:
I don't know if it's true but I've been
told that different companys use
different things to "denature" alcohol. I was told that they can use any
additive that makes the alcohol undrinkable and that one common addative is
kerosene. FWIW I usw A LOT of denatured alcohol for cleanning electronics
and the brand that I use does not seem to leave a resisdue. I've had no
problems using it. I can find the original can and get the brand name if
you like.
Kerosene can be used in "fuel alcohol", so can methanol. There is
a BATF document somewhere on their website that details what denaturants
can be used for each application. There is also SP alcohol which is
denatured using thymol to make it taste bad but not to be toxic (Listerine
mouthwash). Don't know the BATF formula number tho.......sq
--
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============================> /_\ no law abridging the freedom
MicroPower FM Broadcasting-/ /\_/\ of speech, or of the press.
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7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Jeff.Kaneko＠ifrsys.com -
manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
Squest＠cris.com