23 Sep
2021
23 Sep
'21
10:38 a.m.
From: Mark Kahrs
There's a typo in your original Subject: line: the KL11 is a very early UNIBUS
(probably the very first UNIBUS device ever, looking at the board's Mxxx
number) asyn serial line interface:
https://gunkies.org/wiki/KL11_asynchronous_serial_line_interface
manx tells me that these documents were known to
exist:
..
But they are not online.
I couldn't find out anything about the KM11 with a Web search, but I did see
that it's in the DEC PDP-11 fiche set. My set does have the KM11 Tech Manual.
I've never heard of the KM11, and as I said, there's nothing about it online.
Is it worth doing a CHWiki page for it? (With the fiche, it would be pretty
easy to whip up one covering the basics: functionality, component boards, etc.
So I can't say whether they are 18 bit compatible.
Huh? The KM11 doesn't plug into the UNIBUS (or QBUS); it's a MASSBUS device (a
solid-state storage device, actually), so it plugs into an RH11 or RH70 or
something like that. (I should work with the VAX MASSBUS controller, too.)
So the question 'is it 18 bit compatible' makes no sense.
Noel
23 Sep
23 Sep
10:45 a.m.
On Sep 23, 2021, at 1:38 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The addressing wouldn't be a question because the Massbus controller handles that.
But the sector format is a different matter. If it's designed for PDP-11 and friends,
presumably it has a 512 byte sector size. For PDP-10 or -20 use you'd presumably want
a sector size consisting of some round number of 36 bit words.
paul
So I can't say whether they are 18 bit
compatible.
Huh? The KM11 doesn't plug into the UNIBUS (or QBUS); it's a MASSBUS device (a
solid-state storage device, actually), so it plugs into an RH11 or RH70 or
something like that. (I should work with the VAX MASSBUS controller, too.)
So the question 'is it 18 bit compatible' makes no sense. 
7:22 p.m.
But the sector format is a different matter. If
it's designed for
PDP-11 and friends, presumably it has a 512 byte sector size.
For PDP-10 or -20 use you'd presumably want a
sector size consisting
of some round number of 36 bit words.
576 byte sectors (128 words), IIRC.
The unit of allocation on TOPS-20 was a page (512 words).
I forget what it was on TOPS-10: 256 word blocks?
My notes (from sources unknown) say (of the ML11A):
solid-state (ram) disk; 2MB/s xfer
1-31 arrays of 512 or 2048 blocks ea
using 11/70 MK11 (MOS) memory
looked like RS03/RS04 to s/w
http://gunkies.org/wiki/RS03/04_disk_drive
says about *REAL* RS03/04 drives:
"basic format was 18-bit words
(for use in PDP-10 and PDP-15 machines)"
But I doubt that anyone would care to replicate THAT feature
(throwing away two bits of each word) on a PDP-11 option!
7:50 p.m.
My notes (from sources unknown) say (of the ML11A):
solid-state (ram) disk; 2MB/s xfer
1-31 arrays of 512 or 2048 blocks ea
using 11/70 MK11 (MOS) memory
looked like RS03/RS04 to s/w
Ok, that makes sense.
http://gunkies.org/wiki/RS03/04_disk_drive
says about *REAL* RS03/04 drives:
"basic format was 18-bit words
(for use in PDP-10 and PDP-15 machines)"
But I doubt that anyone would care to replicate THAT feature
(throwing away two bits of each word) on a PDP-11 option!
Well, that would otherwise have been used for Massbus parity. The number
of bits on the drive stayed the same, it's just that the formatter would
either format the disk for 512 or 576, then use the top two bits either
for parity or the last 2 data bits.
The other fun question that I have to figure out is can an RM80 be run
in 18 bit mode. I'm guessing it can as it uses the same Massbus
formatter as the RM02/03/05. Need to roll that thing out of my son's
closet when he moves out and see what happens...
C
24 Sep
24 Sep
1:12 a.m.
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 6:38 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Huh? The KM11 doesn't plug into the UNIBUS (or
QBUS); it's a MASSBUS device (a
solid-state storage device, actually), so it plugs into an RH11 or RH70 or
something like that. (I should work with the VAX MASSBUS controller, too.)
So the question 'is it 18 bit compatible' makes no sense.
Were there 2 things called the KM11?
The KM11 that I know is the maintenance unit, composed of a W130 and
W131 plugged together. It goes into a specially-wired connector on
some older PDP11s (e.g. the 11/45), controllers (e.g. RK11C) and
periperals (e.g. RX01).
I have a pair of real DEC ones, and a clone I built to do tests on my
PDP11/45 before I got the DEC ones.
-tony
2:11 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell via cctalk
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 4:12 AM
To: Noel Chiappa; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DEC KM11 (Was: DEC KL11)
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 6:38 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think that we're all talking about the ML11-A, or at least are intending to ...
although the Subject line has been erroneous from the get-go ...
As Mark said:
PartTitleStatus
EK-0ML11-TD *ML11 Technical Description
EK-0ML11-TM *ML11 Technical Manual
EK-0ML11-UG *ML11 User's Guide
-----
paul
Huh? The KM11 doesn't plug into the UNIBUS
(or QBUS); it's a MASSBUS device (a
solid-state storage device, actually), so it plugs into an RH11 or RH70 or
something like that. (I should work with the VAX MASSBUS controller, too.)
So the question 'is it 18 bit compatible' makes no sense.
Were there 2 things called the KM11?
The KM11 that I know is the maintenance unit, composed of a W130 and
W131 plugged together. It goes into a specially-wired connector on
some older PDP11s (e.g. the 11/45), controllers (e.g. RK11C) and
periperals (e.g. RX01).
I have a pair of real DEC ones, and a clone I built to do tests on my
PDP11/45 before I got the DEC ones.
-tony
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days inactive
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