24 Sep
2012
24 Sep
'12
5 p.m.
I want to low level format some drives and I understand this is what
I'll need to do it. The Customer Diag tape apparently doesn't let you.
Google tells me it was once talked about here on the list and what I am
after is :
AQ-GM5AN-DN MVII DIAG MAINT TK50
I found something on the web but, I am pretty sure it is just the customer version and I
can't get it to boot anyway.
24 Sep
24 Sep
5:25 p.m.
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012, mc68010 wrote:
I want to low level format some drives and I
understand this is what I'll
need to do it. The Customer Diag tape apparently doesn't let you. Google
tells me it was once talked about here on the list and what I am after is :
AQ-GM5AN-DN MVII DIAG MAINT TK50
I found something on the web but, I am pretty sure it is just the customer
version and I can't get it to boot anyway.
I have a MVII_D-C.tar.gz and MVII_D-M.tar.gz from 2002 if those are what
you are looking for.
5 Oct
5 Oct
8:20 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
Does anyone have a good place to buy the conductive black foam for
sticking IC into ? The prices I am getting off google are nuts.
8:28 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/05/2012 11:20 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Does anyone have a good place to buy the conductive
black foam for
sticking IC into ? The prices I am getting off google are nuts.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or thereabouts) sheets.
It's not cheap. (anywhere)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:49 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/5/2012 8:28 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or
thereabouts) sheets. It's not
cheap. (anywhere) -Dave
I was a afraid of that. I am regretting how much of it I have tossed
away over the years. Mouser is by far the cheapest yet. $76 for 60"x36".
I guess that will probably last me the rest of my life. Only 1/4" thick
though. Isn't 1/2" more the norm for IC ?
8:59 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/05/2012 11:49 PM, mc68010 wrote:
I've seen it that thick, but I'd call that uncommon. 99% of the stuff
I've seen has been 1/4".
If that's way more than you need, I can send you a big piece (probably
1/3 of one of those big sheets) if you shoot me a few bucks for it, a
mailing tube, and postage.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Mouser carries
it in big 3'x3' (or thereabouts) sheets. It's not
cheap. (anywhere) -Dave
I was a afraid of that. I am regretting how much of it I have tossed
away over the years. Mouser is by far the cheapest yet. $76 for 60"x36".
I guess that will probably last me the rest of my life. Only 1/4" thick
though. Isn't 1/2" more the norm for IC ?
9:07 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, mc68010 wrote:
On 10/5/2012 8:28 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
1/4" is the most common thickness and works ok for ICs. If you have
thicker foam, you may be able to put ICs on both sides. I used to
occasionally end up with small sections of 1/2" from vendors that had
EPROMs on both sides. Sometimes I'd see 1/2" used for TO-3 packaged FETs
and such too.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or
thereabouts) sheets. It's not cheap.
(anywhere) -Dave
I was a afraid of that. I am regretting how much of it I have tossed
away over the years. Mouser is by far the cheapest yet. $76 for 60"x36".
I guess that will probably last me the rest of my life. Only 1/4" thick
though. Isn't 1/2" more the norm for IC ?
9:20 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, mc68010 wrote:
On 10/5/2012 8:28 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Desco appears to carry the 1/2" stuff directly on their website.
http://www.desco.com/DescoCatalog/Packaging/StatfreeConductiveFoam/Statfree…
http://www.desco.com/DescoCatalog/Packaging/BlackCushionGradeDissipativeFoa…
I don't know what the differences are with the different foam densities
though.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or
thereabouts) sheets. It's not cheap.
(anywhere) -Dave
I was a afraid of that. I am regretting how much of it I have tossed
away over the years. Mouser is by far the cheapest yet. $76 for 60"x36".
I guess that will probably last me the rest of my life. Only 1/4" thick
though. Isn't 1/2" more the norm for IC ? 
6 Oct
6 Oct
8:53 a.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/5/2012 11:20 PM, Tothwolf wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, mc68010 wrote:
Here is what I use to send products to people:
http://www.correctproducts.com/ESD-Packaging/High-Density-Black-Conductive-…
It's a bit cheaper per sq inch than mouser, and they offer different
thicknesses (I use 1/4")
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain at jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
On 10/5/2012 8:28 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Desco appears to carry the 1/2" stuff directly on their website.
http://www.desco.com/DescoCatalog/Packaging/StatfreeConductiveFoam/Statfree…
http://www.desco.com/DescoCatalog/Packaging/BlackCushionGradeDissipativeFoa…
I don't know what the differences are with the different foam
densities though. Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or
thereabouts) sheets. It's not
cheap. (anywhere) -Dave
I was a afraid of that. I am regretting how much of it I have tossed
away over the years. Mouser is by far the cheapest yet. $76 for
60"x36". I guess that will probably last me the rest of my life. Only
1/4" thick though. Isn't 1/2" more the norm for IC ? 
5 Oct
5 Oct
8:58 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
Back in the early 80's Some companies tried to cook up a cheap antistatic
foam.
It consisted of foam neoprene, the stuff in furniture, soaked in some black
so-called conductive mixture and then (i'm assuming here) baked to a solid
consistency.
Flamable and ate and blackened IC leads after a few months.
-jim
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:28 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/05/2012 11:20 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Does anyone have a good place to buy the conductive
black foam for
sticking IC into ? The prices I am getting off google are nuts.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or thereabouts) sheets.
It's not cheap. (anywhere)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
9:17 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, jim davis wrote:
Back in the early 80's Some companies tried to
cook up a cheap
antistatic foam. It consisted of foam neoprene, the stuff in furniture,
soaked in some black so-called conductive mixture and then (i'm assuming
here) baked to a solid consistency. Flamable and ate and blackened IC
leads after a few months.
I wonder if that's the stuff I've run into? The parts I found damaged were
mainly 60s and 70s vintage though, the bulk of them logic chips.
9:39 p.m.
New subject: PC stuff for sale - on topic
I'm cleaning up and have items that may interest some list members.
Central point software transcopy deluxe board - $30.00
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=142538&img=copy2.jpg
100+ AM27C2048 16X128K EPROM 40 pin package NOS - $30/OBO
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=147940&img=eproms.jpg
ISA PC-Elevator 386 + 387 co-processor board - $50
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=148130&img=Pc-elevator.jpg
ISA Definicon 68020 coprocessor - $50
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=148129&img=68020-large.jpg
+ actual shipping - Paypal friends option.
The 2 co-processors were purchased for work in the early 90's.
No software located yet.
Current condition unknown, stored in anti-static bag since 1992.
Thanks,
Jim.
9:55 p.m.
New subject: PC stuff for sale - on topic
Sorry, reply to jimpdavis at gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jim davis
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 9:39 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: PC stuff for sale - on topic
I'm cleaning up and have items that may interest some list members.
Central point software transcopy deluxe board - $30.00
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=142538&img=copy2.jpg
100+ AM27C2048 16X128K EPROM 40 pin package NOS - $30/OBO
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=147940&img=eproms.jpg
ISA PC-Elevator 386 + 387 co-processor board - $50
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=148130&img=Pc-elevator.jpg
ISA Definicon 68020 coprocessor - $50
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=148129&img=68020-large.jpg
+ actual shipping - Paypal friends option.
The 2 co-processors were purchased for work in the early 90's.
No software located yet.
Current condition unknown, stored in anti-static bag since 1992.
Thanks,
Jim.
9:03 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/05/2012 08:28 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/05/2012 11:20 PM, mc68010 wrote:
I think Digikey also carries it.
As does Techni-Tool:
http://www.techni-tool.com/265ST1939
As Dave says, it's not cheap. I don't particularly care for the stuff,
as when it degrades, it leaves IC leads a mess.
I wonder if a large-scale solution might be plain old urethane foam with
a coat of EZ-Slide paint?
Or just use some foil-faced PIR insulating foam, perhaps.
--Chuck
Does anyone have a good place to buy the
conductive black foam for
sticking IC into ? The prices I am getting off google are nuts.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or thereabouts) sheets.
It's not cheap. (anywhere)
9:04 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/05/2012 11:20 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Sometimes you can still find a good deal on smaller sections. I found a
supplier who had 12 sections of good quality conductive foam ~3.5"x4.75"
for $1.00 each a few years ago and I promptly bought out his stock. I
figure that will last me a long time since these days I mainly store ICs
in tubes and then put those inside foil/mylar antistatic bags. I've just
run across too many ruined NOS ICs with corroded pins from the conductive
foam breaking down.
Does anyone have a good place to buy the
conductive black foam for
sticking IC into ? The prices I am getting off google are nuts.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or thereabouts) sheets.
It's not cheap. (anywhere)
9:23 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On 10/06/2012 12:04 AM, Tothwolf wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:
The key there is to not leave them in the same foam for 15+ years. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/05/2012 11:20 PM, mc68010 wrote:
Sometimes you can still find a good deal on smaller sections. I found a
supplier who had 12 sections of good quality conductive foam ~3.5"x4.75"
for $1.00 each a few years ago and I promptly bought out his stock. I
figure that will last me a long time since these days I mainly store ICs
in tubes and then put those inside foil/mylar antistatic bags. I've just
run across too many ruined NOS ICs with corroded pins from the
conductive foam breaking down. Does anyone have a good place to buy the
conductive black foam for
sticking IC into ? The prices I am getting off google are nuts.
Mouser carries it in big 3'x3' (or thereabouts) sheets.
It's not cheap. (anywhere)
9:57 p.m.
New subject: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ?
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/06/2012 12:04 AM, Tothwolf wrote:
That's easy to do though when you end up with lots of random "spares". :P
In these cases though, they were already damaged when I got them. I have
no idea how long they had been in the foam.
Sometimes you can still find a good deal on
smaller sections. I found a
supplier who had 12 sections of good quality conductive foam
~3.5"x4.75" for $1.00 each a few years ago and I promptly bought out
his stock. I figure that will last me a long time since these days I
mainly store ICs in tubes and then put those inside foil/mylar
antistatic bags. I've just run across too many ruined NOS ICs with
corroded pins from the conductive foam breaking down.
The key there is to not leave them in the same foam for 15+ years. ;)
24 Sep
24 Sep
5:46 p.m.
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012, mc68010 wrote:
I want to low level format some drives and I
understand this is what I'll
need to do it. The Customer Diag tape apparently doesn't let you. Google
tells me it was once talked about here on the list and what I am after is :
AQ-GM5AN-DN MVII DIAG MAINT TK50
I found something on the web but, I am pretty sure it is just the customer
version and I can't get it to boot anyway.
If it is this it then I have the files you are looking for.
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2004-November/110798.html
I've put them online here:
http://strudel.ignorelist (dot)
com/~tothwolf/classiccmp/MicroVAX_II_Diagnostic_Maintenance_Tapes/
5:52 p.m.
On 9/24/2012 5:46 PM, Tothwolf wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012, mc68010 wrote:
Awesome. Thanks.
I want to low level format some drives and I
understand this is what
I'll need to do it. The Customer Diag tape apparently doesn't let
you. Google tells me it was once talked about here on the list and
what I am after is :
AQ-GM5AN-DN MVII DIAG MAINT TK50
I found something on the web but, I am pretty sure it is just the
customer version and I can't get it to boot anyway.
If it is this it then I have the files you are looking for.
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2004-November/110798.html
I've put them online here:
http://strudel.ignorelist (dot)
com/~tothwolf/classiccmp/MicroVAX_II_Diagnostic_Maintenance_Tapes/ 
25 Sep
25 Sep
12:20 a.m.
On 25 September 2012 01:52, mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/24/2012 5:46 PM, Tothwolf wrote:
The alternative is to find someone with a MicroVAX 2000 (or get one of your
own), that can also do the formatting for you.
Regards
Rob
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012, mc68010 wrote:
I want to low level format some drives and I understand this is what
Awesome. Thanks.
I'll need to do it. The Customer Diag tape
apparently doesn't let you.
Google tells me it was once talked about here on the list and what I am
after is :
AQ-GM5AN-DN MVII DIAG MAINT TK50
I found something on the web but, I am pretty sure it is just the
customer version and I can't get it to boot anyway.
If it is this it then I have the files you are looking for.
http://www.classiccmp.org/**pipermail/cctech/2004-**November/110798.html<…
I've put them online here:
http://strudel.ignorelist (dot) com/~tothwolf/classiccmp/**
MicroVAX_II_Diagnostic_**Maintenance_Tapes/
12:27 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jarratt RMA
Sent: 25 September 2012 08:20
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Needed MicroVAX II Diag Maint TK50 tape or images.
The alternative is to find someone with a MicroVAX 2000 (or
get one of your own), that can also do the formatting for you.
Doesn't that format RD53s and RD54s slightly sub-optimally?
Antonio
12:54 a.m.
On 25 September 2012 08:27, <arcarlini at iee.org> wrote:
I don't know, does it? I don't know much about the low level formatting,
but a project I have in mind for the future will mean I need to learn a
*lot* more about it.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jarratt RMA
Sent: 25 September 2012 08:20
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Needed MicroVAX II Diag Maint TK50 tape or images.
The alternative is to find someone with a MicroVAX 2000 (or
get one of your own), that can also do the formatting for you.
Doesn't that format RD53s and RD54s slightly sub-optimally?
Antonio
9:43 a.m.
I don't know, does it? I don't know much about
the low level
formatting, but a project I have in mind for the future will
mean I need to learn a
*lot* more about it.
Apparently so:
http://vaxine.bitcon.no/section5.html
That might only apply if you just let TEST 70 "do its thing" if it
recognises your drive. It maybe that if you can specify all the
parameters by hand you can set the RD5x sector interleave to 1:1
anyway:
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~agnew/MVAX/MV.TXT
Or it may be that it just doesn't matter on an MVII class system.
Antonio
arcarlini at iee.org
9:51 a.m.
On 09/25/2012 03:54 AM, Jarratt RMA wrote:
The alternative is to find someone with a MicroVAX
2000 (or
get one of your own), that can also do the formatting for you.
Doesn't that format RD53s and RD54s slightly sub-optimally? I don't know, does it? I don't know much about
the low level formatting,
but a project I have in mind for the future will mean I need to learn a
*lot* more about it.
Yes it does. It formats at a different interleave level than the
RQDX3 using the bootable uVAX-II diags. This results in lower data
transfer rates on the RQDX3.
It will *work*, though.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
11:20 a.m.
On Sep 25, 2012 9:55 AM, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Yes it does. It formats at a different interleave level than the
RQDX3 using the bootable uVAX-II diags. This results in lower data
transfer rates on the RQDX3.
Anyone know for sure if formatting with the uVAX-II diags and the PDP-11
XXDP diags will result in the same interleave with the same RQDX3 attached
disk?
11:40 a.m.
On 09/25/2012 02:20 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
I don't know *for sure*, but I've not noticed any performance
difference there...I don't know involved the diag software is in the
formatting process in this case. The RQDX controllers present (as you
well know) a very high-level interface (MSCP) to the host; I'd guess,
and this is just a guess, that low-level stuff like sector interleave
are handled entirely within the controller. Anything else would present
a big abstraction violation, jumping over the MSCP layer, which would be
pretty non-DEC-like for the time.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Yes it does.
It formats at a different interleave level than the
RQDX3 using the bootable uVAX-II diags. This results in lower data
transfer rates on the RQDX3.
Anyone know for sure if formatting with the uVAX-II diags and the PDP-11
XXDP diags will result in the same interleave with the same RQDX3 attached
disk?
4773
days inactive
4784
days old
25 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
arcarlini＠iee.org -
brain＠jbrain.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jimpdavis＠gorge.net -
mc68010＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net