October 2024 - cctalk - classiccmp.org

Re: Ward Christensen (BBS, XMODEM) has died

by donald donaldwhittemore.com

I know the name. As I am sure many of us old timers do. 3 years older than me.

1 year, 1 month

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Fwd: RSTS and big MSC disks

by Paul Koning

I meant to reply-all for this. paul > Begin forwarded message: > >> On Oct 9, 2024, at 5:27 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh(a)avanthar.com> wrote: >> >> On Oct 9, 2024, at 10:22 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>> >>> Earlier there was a question about MSCP disk sizes. I did some checking. >>> >>> RSTS understands all the devices known by name in SIMH, including the "giant" RF73. As of the "big disk" support, which is in V10.1 and I think a few earlier versions, it can handle something that big. It draws the line at 4096 MB; bigger than that and it will tell you the disk is too big when you try to initialize it. I thought it might use only the part it can handle, but no, it simply refuses entirely. >>> >>> Paul >> >> >> I hate to think what setting up a 4GB drive would look like. I have a 1GB SCSI HD for my PDP-11/73 (assuming the drive isn’t dead). I still remember just how long it took the RSTS/E 10.1 install to prepare that drive (so long I only did a single pass on the drive test). >> >> On a related note, Paul, do you have any idea if RSTS/E can be installed from a CD-ROM? I’ve done installs of RT-11 and RSX-11M+ from CD, but couldn’t figure out how to do a RSTS/E install from CD. I can’t remember if I was able to use 4mm DAT, or if I had to use a TK50 (it’s been a *LONG* time since I did any installs). > > I have never seen a RSTS kit on CD-ROM, but it should work just fine. At one time I worked with Fred Knight to help create a "combined kits" CDROM -- one that would hold RSTS plus all the layered products on a bootable CD, including at least a dummy standard CDROM file system so you could recognize it. That required placing two file systems on one device, which turns out to be possible because the starting points ("superblock") of the two are in different blocks. My RSTSFLX V2.x supports creating such a thing. > > While I knew of the plans, I don't think they were ever completed; I certainly never saw any actual delivery. > > So anyway, if you were to create a RSTS disk image file with kits on it and an MSCP bootstrap, and burn that to CDROM, I would think it would be bootable and useable. You might give it a try! > > paul

1 year, 1 month

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RSTS and big MSC disks

by Paul Koning

Earlier there was a question about MSCP disk sizes. I did some checking. RSTS understands all the devices known by name in SIMH, including the "giant" RF73. As of the "big disk" support, which is in V10.1 and I think a few earlier versions, it can handle something that big. It draws the line at 4096 MB; bigger than that and it will tell you the disk is too big when you try to initialize it. I thought it might use only the part it can handle, but no, it simply refuses entirely. paul

1 year, 1 month

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Valuable floppy archiving: seeking current best practice

by Tom Stepleton

Hi folks, I have a floppy disk data archiving project to undertake, and although I'm aware that this can sometimes lead to spirited discussion (and hope to avoid that!), I'm interested in current good practices for pulling data off of hard-to-replace disks. In this situation, the disks are 8" floppies likely in ordinary IBM 26-sector, 77-track, 128-bytes/sector, double-sided FM format. I have a flux reader and will have a pair of Shugart 851 drives for the job; these likely haven't been used for a while, though. At this stage I'll consider the job done if I manage to get good low-level recordings from the disks: assuming the FM data decodes well and sector CRCs look good, further analysis can come later. The main risk I'm worried about is physical damage to the media. While reportedly the disks don't show visible defects (nb: they belong to someone else so I can't inspect them myself right now), I'm still anxious about any chance I might find the binder that secures the magnetic material to the cookie degraded to the point of allowing the oxide to come free. Most other situations I think I can deal with, but I'd like to have a more concrete plan if I start to find oxide building up on the heads. I'd be interested to know what precautions people might take for common data recovery problems. One option is cyclomethicone for cleaning and lubrication if necessary, but other than "you could use this", I'd be interested to know details of how people put it to use if they are worried about media failure. Meanwhile, I'm disinclined to use isopropanol or other more aggressive solvents given received wisdom, although I know opinions differ here. The disks are boot media and other materials relating to the RSRE Flex operating system <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_machine> as developed for PERQ workstations. I'm not aware of other copies of this OS being available, though it would relieve some of the pressure to learn that these weren't the only ones. The disks themselves are primarily ICL-branded although a few indicate manufacture or resale by Maxell, DEC, Inmac, among other brands. Is there anything else that people would advise me to look out for? I did find this thread <https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2018-July/040673.html>, but practices may have advanced in the past six years. I know the whiteboard cleaner that folks seem to have liked is difficult to find these days, particularly here in Britain. I've also had a hard time finding Photo Flo or similar photographic wetting agents and have used deionised water with a drop of dish soap instead. Thanks for any advice, --T

1 year, 1 month

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Might be antique computer parts

by Van Snyder

I have two SPST time delay 12-volt relays packaged like vacuum tubes with octal bases, Amperite models 12N010 (ten seconds) and 12C5 (five seconds). They're in their original boxes. I have no idea what devices used them. It seems a shame to throw them in a recycle bin. Does anybody want them? Van Snyder

1 year, 1 month

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Re: Data General MV/8000 emulator announcement (Bruce Ray)

by Evan Linwood

> A Data General MV/8000 emulator beta release is now available from my DG > legacy preservation web site: This is really something - thanks so much Bruce!

1 year, 1 month

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The CMoaA is OK

by Adam Thornton

> > > was reading 16million was raised and going to charity or something?? and > > that the rest got bought by another museum > > > > > https://www.geekwire.com/2024/paul-allen-estate-sells-remaining-living-comp… > > Oh, it's the CMoA? That's actually really really good news. The last time I was in Atlanta, before my parents moved out here (so...2019?), I had a couple hours to kill on my way to visit a high school friend. So I went there, wandered around, and left their Atari on the Easter Egg screen in Adventure. One of the staff noticed that, talked to me for a bit, and asked me to wait while he phoned up Lonnie Mimms (the founder) and asked him to come in and meet me. We talked for a good hour, and it was great. I would describe what he's done there as what I would have liked to have done if I had come from a family business of real-estate-developer money, rather than (not that I'm complaining) IT consultant/sysadmin/software-developer money. The CMoA was not as hands-on as LCM, but it did have some working machines you could play with. Whatever Lonnie got his hands on from the LCM is unlikely to be sold for the metal value. Five years ago, anyway, he seemed serious and his restoration work looked pretty legit. Adam

1 year, 1 month

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Dysan Alignment and Performance Testers

by Bill Degnan

I have accumulated various Dysan testers, disks and manuals. Does anyone still use these? I dont recall anyone mentioning use of this tool set but obviously Dysan sold a lot of their testers Bill

1 year, 1 month

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Bonhams Auction: APPLE "TWIGGY" MACINTOSH PROTOTYPE USED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF DEMONSTRATION SOFTWARE.

by Christian Liendo

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/29514/preview-lot/5918785/apple-twiggy-maci… APPLE "TWIGGY" MACINTOSH PROTOTYPE USED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF DEMONSTRATION SOFTWARE. Macintosh Personal Computer, Apple Computers Inc, Cupertino, CA, [1983], with 5-1/4 inch "Twiggy" disk drive with corresponding slot in front panel, prototype mouse, prototype keyboard. Includes logic board 820-0086-00, copyrighted 1983, featuring Jean-Michel Folon "Mac Man" (Mr. Macintosh) on the edge, with 512 EPROM Adapter board also featuring "Mac Man," contained in pre-production plastic molded case, 330 x 245 x 250 mm, with smooth plastic front panel and with textured plastic case that bears Macintosh team signature molded to interior, but with only Apple logo on back panel and with Apple logo and Macintosh logo in reversed locations as seen only on prototypes, 3 of 4 Trend Plastics rubber feet with Apple logo. Includes prototype keyboard that bears handwritten serial number on label on lower panel and 3 of 4 Trend Plastics rubber feet with Apple logo; prototype M01000 mouse that bears serial number label, but with prototype connector. includes dual density "Twiggy" diskette labeled "Mac Word." THE MACHINE THAT "HAS CHANGED OUR LIVES FOREVER" (Wozniak). Extremely desirable Macintosh prototype with 5 1/4-inch "Twiggy" drive. Original Macintosh team member Dan Kottke on the Folklore.org website fixes the date of this iteration of the digital board to May 1983. The Macintosh began as a personal project of Jef Raskin, who envisioned a Swiss army knife of a computer: a low-cost, easy-to-use, high-volume appliance named for his favorite apple. Already by 1981, utilizing the 16/32-bit Motorola 68000 microprocessor used in the Lisa, they had the design for a machine 60% faster and much less expensive than the Lisa. It was this design that caught the attention of Steve Jobs who, after being removed from the Lisa project, was looking for something new to capture his attention. Once Jobs took interest in the project, it wasn't long before Raskin was forced out. Jobs "immediately saw that [Apple engineer] Burrell [Smith]'s machine could become the future of Apple" (Hertzfeld p 121). Jobs took over the project in January 1981 and more than changed the direction, he wanted to build a "friendly" computer: the personal computer as a tool for personal empowerment. He engendered a non-conformist attitude in his team and a shared vision of a product that was "insanely great." It was an approach that was utilized years later when Jobs returned to save Apple with the iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad. "The best products, he [Jobs] believed, were 'whole widgets' that were designed end-to-end, with the software closely tailored to the hardware and vice versa. This is what would distinguish the Macintosh, which had an operating system that worked only on its own hardware, from the environment of Microsoft was creating in which its operating system could be used on hardware made by many different companies" (Isaacson p 137). The Macintosh would take the GUI (graphical user interface) that Steve Jobs and the Lisa developers had borrowed from Xerox PARC as well as the WYSIWIG (what you see is what you get) approach also pioneered at Xerox PARC and make it accessible to the masses. Jobs recognized the importance of third-party software developers. After all, it was the third-party spreadsheet program Visicalc, created first only for the Apple II, that drove many to adopt the personal computer—beginning with the Apple II. The team also realized that they had to show software developers how to work with this new playground. Unlike the Apple II where each piece of software could have its own key commands, they wanted to maintain a consistent user experience. The present computer was used by an in-house team member who had moved to Macintosh from the Lisa team. He was tasked with developing demonstrations to show off the computer's capabilities. Among the last-minute major changes to the Macintosh was the disk drive. The original plan was to use the new 5 ¼-inch "Twiggy" drive that was built to greatly expand the capacity of standard floppy disks. It soon became apparent with the release of the Lisa, which featured 2 of these drives, that they were very unreliable and that it would be unfeasible to rely on a single "Twiggy" drive. The team scrambled, under the direction of Jobs, to develop their own 3.5-inch drive with Japanese company Alps based on the latest Sony drive, but realized, excepting Jobs, that they would never make it in time for the projected ship date. The team had to secretly work with Sony until Jobs was ready to acknowledge this—at one point having to hide a Sony employee in the closet to maintain the secret. The finished Macintosh used the new disk format which featured the same data rate as the Twiggy, was more robust than a 5 ¼ inch floppy and small enough to fit into a shirt pocket. Reportedly, Jobs had all of the existing Twiggy prototypes destroyed. The new Macintosh was launched during Superbowl XVIII with what is considered by many to be the greatest commercial of all time, "1984" by Ridley Scott. "The ad cast Macintosh as a warrior for the latter cause—a cool, rebellious, and heroic company that was the only thing standing in the way of the big evil corporation's plan for world domination and total mind control" (Isaacson p 162). Although originally sales were sluggish, the Macintosh's all-in-one, friendly design at a reasonable price eventually won out, and the "insanely great" philosophy of Steve Jobs that it embodied informs the devices that today have been inextricably woven into the fabric of daily life. Hertzfield. Revolution in the Valley. [Sebastopol, 2005]; Isaacson. Steve Jobs NY: [2011]; Levy. Insanely Great [NY: 1995]; Kottke, Daniel. "Macintosh Prototypes." Folklore.Org. Footnotes "There are occasionally short windows in time when incredibly important things get invented that shape the lives of humans for hundreds of years. These events are impossible to anticipate, and the inventors, the participants, are often working not for reasons of money, but for the personal satisfaction of making something great. The development of the Macintosh computer was one of these events, and it has changed our lives forever. Every computer today is basically a Macintosh, a very different type of computer from those that preceded it." Steve Wozniak from the forward of Revolution in the Valley. "I'm one of those people who think that Thomas Edison and the light bulb changed the world a lot more than Karl Marx ever did" (Steve Jobs quoted in Levy's Insanely Great).

1 year, 1 month

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93448PC ROM tube

by Bill Degnan

I have a tube of 93448PC ROMS labeled as such: 502991-01 4000-41FF 502991-02 4200-43FF 502991-03 4400-45FF 502991-04 4600-47FF 502991-04 4600-47FF 504236 PAL RM-DPS 1600-14FF 1 unmarked Any guess as to what these went to? Anyone recognize these numbers? Commodore B Series? Throwin' a hail mary pass here Bill

1 year, 1 month

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2025

2024

2023

2022

cctalk October 2024