May 2024 - cctalk - classiccmp.org

by Christian Corti

[Forwarded from Martin Bishop as some anti spam mechanism rejects his posts] -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bishop Sent: 27 May 2024 23:57 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer In the UK the domestic wiring norm is 13A plugs on a 32A ring at 230V : ~3 kW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#BS_1363_(Type_G) My domestic computer supplies are wired out on BS4343 (Euro / Industrial) plugs and sockets 16A on a 32A ring at 230V : 3k68 VA. https://www.edwardes.co.uk/categories/industrial-euro-plugs---sockets-bs4343 IMHO, based on measurement, the BS4343 outlets have much better earth conductivity than the BS1361 Gs I want the protective devices to trip, not an electrical experience - other folk's installations provided that Tshirt Martin -----Original Message----- From: Christian Corti via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 27 May 2024 16:53 To: Don R. <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Cc: Christian Corti <cc(a)informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Subject: [cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer > 16amps where? In Europe? At least in Germany 16 amps is standard. The Schuko outlets and plugs are rated for this current. As an example, the fuse box in my appartment is splitting up the three input phases (63A each) from the main distribution panel to 3x 3 circuits/16A each. Christian

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Re: ANITA ((was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Rick Bensene

Christian Corti wrote: > The Anita electronic desktop calculators are a perfect example for the usage of > selenium rectifiers in logic gates. ..and anyone who has restored one knows that the vast majority of the back-to-back selenium diode packages have to be replaced with something else as they no longer function properly. Ambient moisture kills Selenium as a semiconductor, and even though these devices were packaged to avoid that to some degree, after 60 years, stuff happens. Many restorers resort to de-soldering the dual-diode packages from the circuit boards, hollowing out the package (removing the Selenium rectifiers and the potting material used) and installing back-to-back conventional Silicon diodes that are rated for the appropriate voltages involved in these machines, potting the diodes in place with some kind of material (epoxy?), and re-soldering the package to the circuit board. These calculators used gas-discharge active logic elements (e.g., thyratrons and dekatrons) and used (relatively speaking) high voltages for their logic levels. Fortunately, these gas-discharge devices seem to fare quite well with time, and though some do fail due to atomic-level outgassing or simple breakage, the majority of them work just as well the day the machine came off the assembly line. Such practice with the Selenium rectifier modules makes the calculator look original if done carefully, and allows it to function when operation was impossible with the original devices. It is an extremely tedious and time-consuming process, as there are a great many of these devices used in the first-generation Sumlock/ANITA calculators. I applaud anyone with the courage and patience to perform such surgery on these unusual artifacts. Fortunately, the circuit boards are quite robustly made, and the traces are large and well adhered to the base material of the circuit board (unlike many later calculators), making such an operation feasible. I am not brave enough to try this with the museum's ANITA Mk8. After 25+ years of owning this artifact, I have not even tried to apply power to it in any fashion, and probably never will. It is one of the very few calculators in the museum that is probably not in operational condition, as I strive for all of the exhibited machines to be operable and available for visitors to the physical museum to play with if they desire. I'm content to leave it as it is for a display machine, as it is in very nice original condition. Interesting to note that many ANITA Mk8 machines have a single transistor in them. It's in the power supply. The designers were comfortable enough using these relatively fussy gas-discharge logic devices as digital devices(they had developed machines like Colossus using this technology considerably before transistors were a thing, so there was certainly historical precedent), but the transistor was just fine for an analog purpose in the power supply. Boy, did they ever get it backwards (in terms of the longevity of gas-discharge logic elements in electronic calculators and what became the ubiquitous use to transistors)! Not intended at all to slight the accomplishment of Sumlock Comptometer in the development of these calculators. They set the stage for the explosion of what was to become a many hundreds of million dollar market by the end of the decade, not to mention setting the electronic calculator up to be the driving force behind integrated circuit development for a consumer-oriented device. ICs before their development for use in calculators were only for big mainframe computers, military weapons systems, the spooks at places like the NSA, and the space program. For that matter, the ANITA Mk7/8 could be said to be the progenitors for the development of the CPU on a chip, and by extension, the personal computer. Notice I didn't specify any machine, or say "first". Slippery slope there. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum https://oldcalculatormuseum.com

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PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

by Tarek Hoteit

I came across this paragraph from the July 1981 Popular Science magazine edition in the article titled “Compute power - pro models at almost home-unit prices.” “ ‘Personal-computer buffs may buy a machine, bring it home, and then spend the rest of their time looking for things it can do’, said …. ‘In business, it’s the other way around. Here you know the job, you have to find a machine that will do it. More precisely, you have to find software that will do the job. Finding a computer to use the software you’ve selected becomes secondary.”. Do you guys* think that software drove hardware sales rather than the other way around for businesses in the early days? I recall that computer hardware salespeople would be knocking on businesses office doors rather than software salesmen. Just seeking your opinion now that we are far ahead from 1981. (*I do wish we have female gender engaged in the classic computing discussions threads as well. Maybe there is.) Regards, Tarek Hoteit AI Consultant, PhD +1 360-838-3675

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Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by John Foust

At 07:50 AM 5/24/2024, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >Surely the code written for Traf-O-Data, before Altair BASIC, counts as a >commercial product; I'm not sure what definition of "published" you're >using here. They didn't sell Traf-o-data, did they? I thought it was a tool they used to analyze data for municipalities, and got paid for the service. - John

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Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

by Dave Dunfield

Sorry in not a proper chained reply - it's been so long since I've subscribed to this list, systems have changed, and I really can't recall how to log in - so I can post replies! These are replies to my previous: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s) -- Chuck Guizis (and several others) -- On "first personal computer" >I don't think the "first" applies in this case. The MCM/70 used an 8008 >and was complete computer with storage and display--something the MITS >8800 was not. I knew this would get lots of comments! -this is what my documentation says: Others debate it, however the Altair deserves this title because: - First computer of substantial capability marketed to hobbiests and small business, and affordable by people of modest means. - First computer to be widely owned by people not professionally involved with the computers industry. - First widely standardized small system bus (S-100), opened the "off the shelf" market for computer add-on's. Ed Roberts, Altair creator: "We coined the phrase Personal Computer and it was first applied to the Altair, i.e., by definition the first personal computer." .. "The beginning of the personal computer industry started without question at MITS with the Altair." -- Christian Corti -- on "Bill Gates first code" >Didn't he write code for DEC machines at his school before that? I'm sure he wrote code before Mits BASIC - everyone writes lots of stuff as they learn - but as far as I have been able to determine - Mits BASIC was his first published commercial product. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom!

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Kevin Anderson

I had the good fortune of visiting The Computer Museum in Boston in the summer of 1984. Reading the museum's Wikipedia article, it appears I was there while they were still freshly setting up their Museum Wharf location, yet hadn't officially opened yet. Unfortunately I only had an hour (or little more) to visit before I had to return to where my wife was at a different location (which I vaguely recall was at an aquarium somewhere nearby?). The clerk at the front entrance was really surprised that I was leaving so soon...which in hindsight I wish now had not been so short. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Sellam Abraham

On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 1:15 PM John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > At 01:32 PM 5/22/2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > >His and his wife > >Gwen's (god rest her soul as well) personal collecting and the museum at > >DEC was the basis for the Boston Computer Museum, which effectively went > >west and became the Computer History Museum. > > He was quite sensitive about this. I made the same mistake, referring > to it as the "Boston Computer Museum." He told me: > > "Let me be clear The Computer Museum (TCM) was NEVER called the > Boston Computer Museum... Boston was a temporary home when computing > passed through New England, but the city itself gave nothing to it. > ... As a former collector, founder, and board member of the > Digital Computer Museum > The Computer Museum >> current Computer History > Museum > (a name I deplore and that exists only because of the way the Museum left > Boston) > I have always been a strong advocate of getting as many artifacts into as > many > hands as possible, and this includes selling museum artifacts when > appropriate. > In essence a whole industry of museums and collectors is essential." > > - John > I appreciate the clarification. I agree that it's a shame that the CHM couldn't be called TCM. "Computer History Museum" is a fairly awkward name. Sellam

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Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by John Foust

At 01:32 PM 5/22/2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: >His and his wife >Gwen's (god rest her soul as well) personal collecting and the museum at >DEC was the basis for the Boston Computer Museum, which effectively went >west and became the Computer History Museum. He was quite sensitive about this. I made the same mistake, referring to it as the "Boston Computer Museum." He told me: "Let me be clear The Computer Museum (TCM) was NEVER called the Boston Computer Museum... Boston was a temporary home when computing passed through New England, but the city itself gave nothing to it. ... As a former collector, founder, and board member of the Digital Computer Museum > The Computer Museum >> current Computer History Museum (a name I deplore and that exists only because of the way the Museum left Boston) I have always been a strong advocate of getting as many artifacts into as many hands as possible, and this includes selling museum artifacts when appropriate. In essence a whole industry of museums and collectors is essential." - John

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C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

by Christian Liendo

Ars Technica https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/gordon-bell-an-architect-of-our-dig… New York Times Obit https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/technology/c-gordon-bell-dead.html?unloc…

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Thirties techies and computing history

by Tarek Hoteit

A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? Regards, Tarek Hoteit

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