23 Nov
2025
23 Nov
'25
7:11 p.m.
One of the greatest joys of classic computing was running what you wanted
on your own computer. What has happened in the intervening years? Have
‘software walls’ created a computing environment that benefits software
gate-keepers(owners of computing technology) by monopolizing creativity,
freedom to program and establishing a defacto ‘true ownership’. Will the
future be this or will it be more like the earliest years of
microcomputing?
Murray 🙂
23 Nov
23 Nov
7:34 p.m.
On 2025-11-23 8:11 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
One of the greatest joys of classic computing was
running what you wanted
on your own computer. What has happened in the intervening years? Have
‘software walls’ created a computing environment that benefits software
gate-keepers(owners of computing technology) by monopolizing creativity,
freedom to program and establishing a defacto ‘true ownership’. Will the
future be this or will it be more like the earliest years of
microcomputing?
Murray 🙂
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
1984 it was Big Brother, to day it is Uncle Gates.
Ben.
PS: The lesser joy of 'your own computer' is lack of software or i/o
devices.
8:01 p.m.
In my opinion, the statement below is true when it all started with personal curiosity
about using a computer. Once the computer became a means to make money, the utility of
using computers got intermixed with money and business. Greed took over most of the tech
world except for the few that embraced personal computers as personal computersand not to
make money off the masses.
- Tarek
> One of the greatest joys of classic computing was
running what you wanted on your own computer.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 7:35 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2025-11-23 8:11 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
One of the greatest joys of classic computing was
running what you wanted
on your own computer. What has happened in the intervening years? Have
‘software walls’ created a computing environment that benefits software
gate-keepers(owners of computing technology) by monopolizing creativity,
freedom to program and establishing a defacto ‘true ownership’. Will the
future be this or will it be more like the earliest years of
microcomputing?
Murray 🙂
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
1984 it was Big Brother, to day it is Uncle Gates.
Ben.
PS: The lesser joy of 'your own computer' is lack of software or i/o devices.
11:47 p.m.
I feel guilt. I worked on BMP at intel for facegook servers. We didn't have
the handcuffs of TPM,
But we had to 3 party the bit encryption.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 8:39 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
In my opinion, the statement below is true when it all started with
personal curiosity about using a computer. Once the computer became a means
to make money, the utility of using computers got intermixed with money and
business. Greed took over most of the tech world except for the few that
embraced personal computers as personal computersand not to make money off
the masses.
- Tarek
devices.
> One of the greatest joys of classic computing
was running what you
wanted on your own computer.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 7:35 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> On 2025-11-23 8:11 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> One of the greatest joys of classic computing
was running what you
wanted
on your
own computer. What has happened in the intervening years? Have
‘software walls’ created a computing environment that benefits software
gate-keepers(owners of computing technology) by monopolizing creativity,
freedom to program and establishing a defacto ‘true ownership’. Will the
future be this or will it be more like the earliest years of
microcomputing?
Murray 🙂
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
1984 it was Big Brother, to day it is Uncle Gates.
Ben.
PS: The lesser joy of 'your own computer' is lack of software or i/o
11:51 p.m.
No slur intended, My eyes are bad and mu typing worse.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 11:47 PM Jim Davis <jim.p.davis(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I feel guilt. I worked on BMP at intel for facegook
servers. We didn't
have the handcuffs of TPM,
But we had to 3 party the bit encryption.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 8:39 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
In my opinion, the statement below is true when it all started with
personal curiosity about using a computer. Once the computer became a means
to make money, the utility of using computers got intermixed with money and
business. Greed took over most of the tech world except for the few that
embraced personal computers as personal computersand not to make money off
the masses.
- Tarek
devices.
> One of the greatest joys of classic computing
was running what you
wanted on your own computer.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 7:35 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> On 2025-11-23 8:11 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> One of the greatest joys of classic computing
was running what you
wanted
> on your own computer. What has happened in
the intervening years? Have
> ‘software walls’ created a computing environment that benefits software
> gate-keepers(owners of computing technology) by monopolizing
creativity,
> freedom to program and establishing a defacto
‘true ownership’. Will
the
future be
this or will it be more like the earliest years of
microcomputing?
Murray 🙂
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
1984 it was Big Brother, to day it is Uncle Gates.
Ben.
PS: The lesser joy of 'your own computer' is lack of software or i/o
24 Nov
24 Nov
7:35 a.m.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 10:34 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
You forgot about open source. This issue is precisely why it was created and why it is
such a big deal.
Yes, if you actually run Windows on your poor innocent PC, you're correct.
paul
8:43 a.m.
there are two aspects to "ownership". hardware and software.
1. you can still run all the old software (e.g. pet basic", IMSAI) under an
emulator on a modern computer running either windows (no control) or linux
etc (open source). and now for free, not having to buy the hardware which
with inflation would be $1000 to $5000
2. hardware: it depends:
2a. my greatest joy was upgrading the hardware (and software to support)
my TRS-80 model 1. All I bought from radio shack was a m1 keyboard with
level 1 basic 4k ($300), and level 2 basic as a spare part (iirc $80).
many intermediate steps, but eventually 64k inside the keyboard, 3 speed,
ctl key, tri color led, s-100 adapter, s-100 cards for disk controller,
printer and modem (no expensive interface), and other enhancements (like a
fix for cassette operations). I never got around to using the extra 16 k
to run native CP/M, partly because I would have had to learn and customize
the cp/m severely. The extra 16 k memory i programmed as a printer buffer
(remember how slow dot matrix printers were). I was prepared to upgrade to
256K in the keyboard but when I got an IBM PC clone,.I did not have the
time to program it as a virtual disk (the only reasonable use for it). I
programmed in hex, writing an install program for the hex that included
labels to automatically correct addresses and relative jumps when I added
or deleted instructions.
2b. hardware: i could modify a modern computer's emulator to include my
hardware changes, but that would be at least an order of magnitude more
work than the hardware changes were.
2c. you can get a usb to printer port (parallel) adapter to do some things
with your emulated IMSAI or Pet that you could have done then.. you can
emulate floppy disks, and read/write 3.25" ones (if standard shugart).
There have been adapters for 5.25 floppies, if enough demand, should become
available again and maybe even for 8 inch (my wish list).
2d. you can use modern hard disks, sdc cards, etc with old computer
software emulators
2e you can buy off the shelf hardware to adapt some old computers (real or
emulated), including the trs-80 coco to internet access etc. btw, the RS
coco has the largest base of current users I have seen. and hardware
upgrades for old computers to give them more power.
So you can get much of the historical feel of the first micros with modern
computers. all with open source or at least included in the required
hardware (e.g. for internet adapters)
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
12:03 p.m.
On 2025-11-24 8:35 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
The hardware is NOT!
CP/M had open source hardware, and bios routines.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 10:34 PM, ben via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
You forgot about open source. This issue is precisely why it was created and why it is
such a big deal. Yes, if you actually run Windows on your poor innocent
PC, you're correct.
STRANGE, I RUN WINDOWS*.It works with my hardware. Linux does not.It
never did with any computer I ever had.I had a PDP 8,clone once that
never ran windows or unix. (spare time gizmos). I could find free FPGA
software with windows but my designs never compiled properly.
*Darn caps lock key. I hate modern keyboards.The ASR 33 I liked.The
surplus keyboards of the 70's I liked.
I said UNIX, and implied the historic versions for the pdp 11 and pdp 7.
Was giving it away free the only advantage, or what could be OPEN SOURCE
for the time? (when nobody is looking, we will copy a tape for you).
Ignoring politics what was the advantage over other operating systems?
PDP-11's with a MMU. cheap compared to the IBM-370's?
The C compiler for UNIX, I think was more important for UNIX development
as it was a production compiler, compared to toy language like pascal.
It also was small compared with today.
Having 100's of students write 'hello world' was important back then.
Pascal,C,BASIC all work. I ended up on the pc side of computing
thus better hardware and software I never had.
Looking back in history, the PDP 11 and the PDP 10 was not better
but just the 'first'. Important but not better hardware wise.
Ben.
PS. Notice how you can't run a program over night, with windows
demanding some stupid update and reset.
PPS: DEC and IBM in the 70's were the most known but what others like
Philips P856.
2:49 p.m.
Pearl clutching and lamenting about what I don't know is sad.Unless TPM 2.0
cuts off any path but windows, Free O/S will flourish.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 12:03 PM ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 2025-11-24 8:35 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
created and why it is such a big deal.
The hardware is NOT!
CP/M had open source hardware, and bios routines.
> On Nov 23, 2025, at 10:34 PM, ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
You have no software ownership any more, or control over you computer.
You forgot about open source. This issue is precisely why it was
Yes, if you actually run Windows on your poor
innocent PC, you're
correct.
STRANGE, I RUN WINDOWS*.It works with my hardware. Linux does not.It
never did with any computer I ever had.I had a PDP 8,clone once that
never ran windows or unix. (spare time gizmos). I could find free FPGA
software with windows but my designs never compiled properly.
*Darn caps lock key. I hate modern keyboards.The ASR 33 I liked.The
surplus keyboards of the 70's I liked.
I said UNIX, and implied the historic versions for the pdp 11 and pdp 7.
Was giving it away free the only advantage, or what could be OPEN SOURCE
for the time? (when nobody is looking, we will copy a tape for you).
Ignoring politics what was the advantage over other operating systems?
PDP-11's with a MMU. cheap compared to the IBM-370's?
The C compiler for UNIX, I think was more important for UNIX development
as it was a production compiler, compared to toy language like pascal.
It also was small compared with today.
Having 100's of students write 'hello world' was important back then.
Pascal,C,BASIC all work. I ended up on the pc side of computing
thus better hardware and software I never had.
Looking back in history, the PDP 11 and the PDP 10 was not better
but just the 'first'. Important but not better hardware wise.
Ben.
PS. Notice how you can't run a program over night, with windows
demanding some stupid update and reset.
PPS: DEC and IBM in the 70's were the most known but what others like
Philips P856.
23 Nov
23 Nov
8:13 p.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap loader.
9:32 p.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
I have all the parts to assenble a TEK 6205, but I lack a breath-of-life
bootstrap tape.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 8:13 PM ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap loader.
24 Nov
24 Nov
12:30 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
A weird bird, NS 32016/32032 High performance for 1987. The only one I
know of burned in a house fire.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 9:32 PM Jim Davis <jim.p.davis(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I have all the parts to assenble a TEK 6205, but I
lack a breath-of-life
bootstrap tape.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 8:13 PM ben via cctalk <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
> I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
> loader.
>
>
12:44 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
A diy TTL system build in 1976
http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
(Click through the security warnings)
On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
loader.
1:15 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
Does it work? I have a p2p ALU / register file that didn't see daylight.
74181/89 and lots 0f glue regs.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 1:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A diy TTL system build in 1976
http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
(Click through the security warnings)
On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out
there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
loader.
1:16 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
ive got this motorola 6800 system from about 1975
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199901793_f074af16c0_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199903443_7c7caa4228_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50200713557_6d8270d128_o.jpg
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A diy TTL system build in 1976
http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
(Click through the security warnings)
On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out
there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
loader.
1:28 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
That looks like bubble memory, Or a weird clock chip, #3 CPU is a??? see
a lot of 8 bit i/o
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 1:16 AM Adrian Stoness via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
ive got this motorola 6800 system from about 1975
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199901793_f074af16c0_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199903443_7c7caa4228_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50200713557_6d8270d128_o.jpg
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
A diy TTL system build in 1976
http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
(Click through the security warnings)
On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out
there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
loader.
1:41 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
Looking at the date stamps on the chips late 1976
On 11/24/2025 10:16 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
ive got this motorola 6800 system from about 1975
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199901793_f074af16c0_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199903443_7c7caa4228_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50200713557_6d8270d128_o.jpg
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> A diy TTL system build in 1976
>
> http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
>
> (Click through the security warnings)
>
> On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>> Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
>> I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
>> loader.
>>
11:32 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
that helps as i know nothing about this machine
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:41 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Looking at the date stamps on the chips late 1976
On 11/24/2025 10:16 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
ive got this motorola 6800 system from about 1975
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199901793_f074af16c0_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199903443_7c7caa4228_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50200713557_6d8270d128_o.jpg
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> A diy TTL system build in 1976
>
> http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
>
> (Click through the security warnings)
>
> On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>> Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
>> I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
>> loader.
>>
11:51 a.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
I have the self-titled "Bill-1" 8008 based computer made up of boards from
Litton Data Systems. I haven't looked at it in years but now that I have a
little more knowledge in vintage computing, I'll have to take a look at it
soon and see if there's anything I can get going.
https://vintagecomputer.ca/the-bill-1-8008-based-computer/
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 2:33 PM Adrian Stoness via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
that helps as i know nothing about this machine
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:41 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Looking at the date stamps on the chips late 1976
On 11/24/2025 10:16 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
ive got this motorola 6800 system from about 1975
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199901793_f074af16c0_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199903443_7c7caa4228_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50200713557_6d8270d128_o.jpg
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> A diy TTL system build in 1976
>
> http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
>
> (Click through the security warnings)
>
> On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>> Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
>> I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
>> loader.
>>
1:09 p.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
I bought this Japanese Altair clone
<https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-Mac8/20-Mac%20Systems/Mac8%20EMIC%20Alpha%20S-100/Photos/>
some years ago. According to the seller, it never worked right. He
suspected that the problem was the 100VAC versus 120VAC that's in some
parts of Japan.
I found that it did work a little better with reduced AC voltage, but it
never worked right at all. When I dug into it, I found that Vcc on the
front panel was about 7V! Looking closely at the front panel's regulator, I
noticed that the outline on the silkscreen was drawn with dotted lines. As
I suspected, this indicated that the regulator and its heatsink were meant
to be mounted on the solder side of the board. But they were mounted on the
component side! Turns out that a 7805 kinda-sorta works if its output and
input are swapped :-) I removed it and mounted it on the solder side, and
the machine now works like a champ. 100VAC, 120VAC, either way. All of the
front panel components survived this overvoltage, and the 7805 was fine.
I can understand how the seller got this wrong - the manual and schematic
are entirely in Japanese. He told me that he bought the machine around 1980
as a kit in Japan, and assembled the boards (not including soldering) on
the plane ride home. Imagine that in today's high-security environment!
Martin E.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 11:51 AM Santo Nucifora via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have the self-titled "Bill-1" 8008 based
computer made up of boards from
Litton Data Systems. I haven't looked at it in years but now that I have a
little more knowledge in vintage computing, I'll have to take a look at it
soon and see if there's anything I can get going.
https://vintagecomputer.ca/the-bill-1-8008-based-computer/
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 2:33 PM Adrian Stoness via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
that helps as i know nothing about this machine
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:41 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
Looking at the date stamps on the chips late 1976
On 11/24/2025 10:16 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
ive got this motorola 6800 system from about 1975
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199901793_f074af16c0_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50199903443_7c7caa4228_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50200713557_6d8270d128_o.jpg
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk <
cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
> A diy TTL system build in 1976
>
> http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/hjs22/
>
> (Click through the security warnings)
>
> On 11/24/2025 5:13 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>> Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
>> I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a bootstrap
>> loader.
>>
7:04 p.m.
New subject: who has a computer of your very own
On 11/23/25 22:13, ben via cctalk wrote:
Who has strange or one of a kind computers out there?
I have a 18 bit homebrew (cpld) with 256Kb ram and just a
bootstrap loader.
I built a 32-bit bit slice processor out of AMD 2903 and
2910 parts. See:
https://pico-systems.com/stories/1982.html
I did write a micro assembler for it and ran a few test
programs. But, the work ahead of me (interfacing memory and
an I/O bus, writing 360 microcode and coming up with a
Pascal compiler and writing my own OS and editor, etc. was
just too daunting and I gave up on it.
Jon
12:57 a.m.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:11 AM Murray McCullough via cctalk
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote:
One of the greatest joys of classic computing was running what you wanted
on your own computer. What has happened in the intervening years? Have
‘software walls’ created a computing environment that benefits software
gate-keepers(owners of computing technology) by monopolizing creativity,
freedom to program and establishing a defacto ‘true ownership’. Will the
future be this or will it be more like the earliest years of
microcomputing?
Even without manufacturers making things difficult, I've pointed out that :
When I started out in computing, the typical home micros (PET, TRS-80,
Apple ][, and later BBC micro, Spectrum, and also the original IBM PC,
XT, AT) machines were simple enough that even I could understand them.
I could program them and interface them to do what _I_ wanted.
I now have 2 classes of machines here. The majority are like the
above. Some are more complicated (PDP11s, PERQs, etc) but
none-the-less they do what I want. I can understand every last logic
gate in an HP9830 or PERQ.
The other class of machines here contains 1 machine. A modern-ish
laptop. I do not understand it. I have installed gcc and have written
some simple programs to run from a command line (which is better than
not programming it at all). But USB is a horrible interface to design
for. I cannot interface it to my own circuitry. I do not understand
how it works. Yes, it gets me on the internet, lets me looks at
downloaded service manuals, data sheets and the like (which is the
only reason I have it) but it's doing what the manufacturers intend,
not what _I_ want.
I am not convinced that this is progress.
-tony
Murray 🙂
1:32 a.m.
On 24/11/2025 9:57 am, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
When I started out in computing, the typical home
micros (PET, TRS-80,
Apple ][, and later BBC micro, Spectrum, and also the original IBM PC,
XT, AT) machines were simple enough that even I could understand them.
Simple enough that a student in Helsinki could write a complete UNIX-
compatible operating system for it. :)
Julf
4:16 a.m.
On 2025-11-24 2:32 a.m., Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote:
On 24/11/2025 9:57 am, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
Not quite true, Minix almost never made it out the door because IBM had
undocumented logic with memory parity or something like that. The IBM
emulation ran fine, not the PC.
When I started out in computing, the typical home
micros (PET, TRS-80,
Apple ][, and later BBC micro, Spectrum, and also the original IBM PC,
XT, AT) machines were simple enough that even I could understand them.
Simple enough that a student in Helsinki could write a complete UNIX-
compatible operating system for it. :)
Julf
And is UNIX Comparable a good thing?
What about all the lost USA and UK and USSR computers and operating systems.
I have lots of operating system books. but they speed the first 325
pages on multi-tasking and the last 20 pages on a file system.
Ben.
5:11 a.m.
On 24/11/2025 1:16 pm, ben via cctalk wrote:
Not quite true, Minix almost never made it out the
door because IBM had
undocumented logic with memory parity or something like that. The IBM
emulation ran fine, not the PC.
Interesting - never heard about that one!
And is UNIX Comparable a good thing?
Yes, definitely.
What about all the lost USA and UK and USSR computers
and operating systems.
I was part of organizing the first (and next-to-last) USSR UNIX
conference. One funny part was a bunch of Russian academics arguing
over how to best port UNIX to one of their mainframes. Bill Joy
was also attending, and Sun Microsystems donated something like
3000 slightly obsolete Sun workstations to the Russian universities.
He walked up to the microphone and commented "you realize those
workstations run circles around that mainframe...".
This was also when you couldn't export the Apple LaserWriter or
the Yamaha DX7 music synthesizer to the USSR (because they had
processors that were too powerful), not to mention the UNIX
source code. So at one point one of the guys at the local university
we were visiting pointed to a shelf of magnetic tapes and asked
"which version would you like?" :)
Julf
5:33 a.m.
On 2025-11-24 6:11 a.m., Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote:
I was part of organizing the first (and next-to-last)
USSR UNIX
conference. One funny part was a bunch of Russian academics arguing
over how to best port UNIX to one of their mainframes. Bill Joy
was also attending, and Sun Microsystems donated something like
3000 slightly obsolete Sun workstations to the Russian universities.
He walked up to the microphone and commented "you realize those
workstations run circles around that mainframe...".
I am not impressed with Sun.
JAVA runs only on Sun or windows hardware, the last time I looked.
(1995?)
Julf
I guess Unix is important, if that is your job.
I used a IBM-1130 in 1982, here in CANADA. That computer any student
could use if it was free. The next year they got a VAX. Only computer
science students could use that.
Ben.
5:56 a.m.
On 24/11/2025 2:33 pm, ben via cctalk wrote:
I am not impressed with Sun.
Your opinion is noted.
JAVA runs only on Sun or windows hardware, the last
time I looked.
(1995?)
Heh, maybe you should look again. :)
I guess Unix is important, if that is your job.
UNIX is extremely important fro all of computing. It formed the basis
for the first portable operating system standard (POSIX), and
UNIX and/or the descendant of UNIX runs on the vast majority of
servers that form the Internet, as well as on billions of
mobile phones.
I used a IBM-1130 in 1982, here in CANADA. That
computer any student
could use if it was free. The next year they got a VAX. Only computer
science students could use that.
That might have been the peculiar situation at your university. At
most places it was the opposite - students were allowed to
use the UNIX machines, but not the IBM mainframes.
Julf
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20-clamp-mussels＠icloud.com -
Adrian Stoness -
ben -
Carey Schug -
Henk Stegeman -
Jim Davis -
Johan Helsingius -
Jon Elson -
Martin Eberhard -
Murray McCullough -
Paul Koning -
Santo Nucifora -
Tony Duell