In my opinion, the statement below is true when it all started with personal curiosity about using a computer. Once the computer became a means to make money, the utility of using computers got intermixed with money and business. Greed took over most of the tech world except for the few that embraced personal computers as personal computersand not to make money off the masses. - Tarek

No slur intended, My eyes are bad and mu typing worse. On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 11:47 PM Jim Davis <jim.p.davis(a)gmail.com> wrote:

there are two aspects to "ownership". hardware and software. 1. you can still run all the old software (e.g. pet basic", IMSAI) under an emulator on a modern computer running either windows (no control) or linux etc (open source). and now for free, not having to buy the hardware which with inflation would be $1000 to $5000 2. hardware: it depends: 2a. my greatest joy was upgrading the hardware (and software to support) my TRS-80 model 1. All I bought from radio shack was a m1 keyboard with level 1 basic 4k ($300), and level 2 basic as a spare part (iirc $80). many intermediate steps, but eventually 64k inside the keyboard, 3 speed, ctl key, tri color led, s-100 adapter, s-100 cards for disk controller, printer and modem (no expensive interface), and other enhancements (like a fix for cassette operations). I never got around to using the extra 16 k to run native CP/M, partly because I would have had to learn and customize the cp/m severely. The extra 16 k memory i programmed as a printer buffer (remember how slow dot matrix printers were). I was prepared to upgrade to 256K in the keyboard but when I got an IBM PC clone,.I did not have the time to program it as a virtual disk (the only reasonable use for it). I programmed in hex, writing an install program for the hex that included labels to automatically correct addresses and relative jumps when I added or deleted instructions. 2b. hardware: i could modify a modern computer's emulator to include my hardware changes, but that would be at least an order of magnitude more work than the hardware changes were. 2c. you can get a usb to printer port (parallel) adapter to do some things with your emulated IMSAI or Pet that you could have done then.. you can emulate floppy disks, and read/write 3.25" ones (if standard shugart). There have been adapters for 5.25 floppies, if enough demand, should become available again and maybe even for 8 inch (my wish list). 2d. you can use modern hard disks, sdc cards, etc with old computer software emulators 2e you can buy off the shelf hardware to adapt some old computers (real or emulated), including the trs-80 coco to internet access etc. btw, the RS coco has the largest base of current users I have seen. and hardware upgrades for old computers to give them more power. So you can get much of the historical feel of the first micros with modern computers. all with open source or at least included in the required hardware (e.g. for internet adapters) <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Pearl clutching and lamenting about what I don't know is sad.Unless TPM 2.0 cuts off any path but windows, Free O/S will flourish. On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 12:03 PM ben via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

I have all the parts to assenble a TEK 6205, but I lack a breath-of-life bootstrap tape. On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 8:13 PM ben via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On 11/24/25 02:30, Jim Davis via cctalk wrote: I cloned a Logical Microcomputer Co. 16032 computer on wirewrap cards and interfaced to a memory unit from an MRI scanner.  It was GLACIALLY slow, like it took FIVE clock minutes to load emacs!  I sold the hardware at a VCF show a couple years ago.  Last VCF I sold a bunch of Nat Semi 16032 development boards in a Multibus card rack that was a multiprocessor accelerator for a VAX 780.  It took about 7 of these to roughly double the VAX's speed. Jon

On Thu, Dec 4, 2025 at 10:18 AM Adrian Godwin via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: There was also an 32016 second processor for a normal BBC micro, sometime badged 'Cambridge Coprocessor'. It came in the normal 'cheesewedge' case and IIRC had 1MByte of memory The ACW was based on a BBC B+ mainboard. It was fitted in a case with a Microvitec colour monitor chassis, PSU, 80-cylinder floppy drive, SCSI (or was it strictly SASI) interface which was connected to an ST412 interface board and thence to a hard drive. The 32016 board was plugged into the Tube connector on the B+ board, but was much larger than the one in the 'cheesewedge' case and could take up to 4MBytes of RAM. FWIW I have an example of each. I also have a Whitechapel MG1 which is 32016-based. I don't recall an 8086 second processor for the BBC micro in the Cheesewedge case (there was an internal 80186 second processor board for the BBC Master). I only remember 4 such second processors -- 65C02, Z80, 32016 and ARM 1. Yes, I have all 4. -tony

On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 11:01:40 +0000 Tony Duell via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: When I did my industrial placement at UKAEA Culham Labs, Oxon., in 1987, I shot jealous looks at the scientists who had been given MG1 workstations. As a member of the software applications group, I had to make do with a Lynwood Alpha terminal, with a less exotic Zilog Z8001 processor. I remember Whitechapel coming in to show off their colour workstation too, though it wasn't long before Sun workstations started appearing all over the place instead and I spent as much time as possible on one of them. Paul.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2025, 6:32 AM Paul Flo Williams via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: When I began my undergrad at QMC in 1986 Stern Hall had just been outfitted with 20-30 MG1's. They were amazing machines for the time period though I remember by my third year a whole bunch were unusable because the keyboard had failed (and WCW were some version of defunct).

On Thu, Dec 4, 2025, 7:41 AM Tony Duell &lt;ard.p850ug1(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I recall that in my third year, someone, was trying to get students interested in a final year project; making an adapter so a PC/AT keyboard could be used. My recollection was 20% of the lab was unusable. Since QMC people were involved with the founding of WCW you'd have thought they'd have had some way to figure out this Keytronics aspect. ~shrug~

On Mon, 2025-12-08 at 17:49 -0600, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: Do you plan to build an IBM 1401 also, or just use compatibility mode in your IBM 1410? I don't remember whether the only difference between IBM 1410 and IBM 7010 was speed. If there were other differences, do you plan to build an IBM 7010? Or if the only differences were extensions in the IBM 7010 while maintaining complete IBM 1410 compatibility, would you upgrade your IBM 1410 to IBM 7010?

Does any one know of a real BELL wav file so I have Windows ring a TTY bell rather than that stupid chime. Ben.

Was that the stock bell on all of them? Or did some models have a proper beep. The VT52 I used at my first job had a proper beep. But I don't know if that was a local mod or not. Warner On Thu, Jan 1, 2026, 2:23 PM Chris Zach via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 8:59 AM Paul Koning via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: Is the grind-sound of the VT52 unique to that model? did it appear on any other DEC terminals or did any other manufacturers not have a "beep" sound? Anyone know why DEC chose to use the grind-noise? it was a singularly unpleasant sound, it had the effect of not wanting to trigger it.

On Thu, Jan 1, 2026 at 11:44 PM Nigel Williams via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote: From what I remember it's actually a little relay on the main circuit board. A single pulse for the key click and a buzz for the 'bell' -tony

On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 6:59 PM Paul Koning &lt;paulkoning(a)comcast.net&gt; wrote: I checked the printset after posting. The 'buzz' is generated by pulsing the coil from the firmware, it doesn't use the normally-closed relay contact to make a buzzer. I looked in that printset too. A real speaker. Years ago I could have rescued a VT05. Alas the car was full (PDP11/44, PDP8/e, Acorn System 4, Northstar, Sun 3/260, manuals, etc) and I never went back for it. Been kicking myself ever since. I think the VT52 is a pair of single-sided boards with lots and lots of wire jumpers. I've never actually seen inside one, I have a VT55 with AFAIK is a VT52 with the line/histogram board added. That is a double-sided (at least) PCB. -tony

Tony Duell writes: The Stanford AI lab PDP-10 also had such a bell which could be activated by the operating system.

On 2026-01-01 2:23 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Who can afford a 1957 Chev, now days. Real cars have fins. Real computers have 36 bits. Real I/O is 7 track tape and Selectric typewriter. Ben. PS. 1957 was a great year for cars and electronic brains.

Does it work? I have a p2p ALU / register file that didn't see daylight. 74181/89 and lots 0f glue regs. On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 1:00 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

That looks like bubble memory, Or a weird clock chip, #3 CPU is a??? see a lot of 8 bit i/o On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 1:16 AM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

that helps as i know nothing about this machine On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:41 AM Henk Stegeman via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

I bought this Japanese Altair clone <https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-Mac8/20-Mac%20Systems/Mac8%20EMIC%20Alpha%20S-100/Photos/> some years ago. According to the seller, it never worked right. He suspected that the problem was the 100VAC versus 120VAC that's in some parts of Japan. I found that it did work a little better with reduced AC voltage, but it never worked right at all. When I dug into it, I found that Vcc on the front panel was about 7V! Looking closely at the front panel's regulator, I noticed that the outline on the silkscreen was drawn with dotted lines. As I suspected, this indicated that the regulator and its heatsink were meant to be mounted on the solder side of the board. But they were mounted on the component side! Turns out that a 7805 kinda-sorta works if its output and input are swapped :-) I removed it and mounted it on the solder side, and the machine now works like a champ. 100VAC, 120VAC, either way. All of the front panel components survived this overvoltage, and the 7805 was fine. I can understand how the seller got this wrong - the manual and schematic are entirely in Japanese. He told me that he bought the machine around 1980 as a kit in Japan, and assembled the boards (not including soldering) on the plane ride home. Imagine that in today's high-security environment! Martin E. On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 11:51 AM Santo Nucifora via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Here's one: Cramer Intel 8080A Microcomputer https://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=819 Wire-wrapped 8080 system built to compete in the Altair market, and flopped. " Cramer Electronics Incorporated started advertising this 8080 kit microcomputer, the "Cramerkit", in late 1975 for $495 (or was it $1495?) but none were delivered until the spring of 1976. The Cramerkit was designed by Microcomputer Technique Inc. and was shipped partially assembled. " On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 10:04 PM Jon Elson via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

Jon Elson wrote: “Was just too daunting and I gave up on it.” I think this tells us why the ‘ownership’ of computers is the way it is now! As another writer wrote recently, and I apologize for not remembering his name, says: “Rights to your own machine are hobbled by legal restrictions” and I’ll add security concerns. We live in a much different world than what was in the 70’s and 80’s. Firmware plays an equal role as access to root system isn’t possible; booting a computer was possible at root level-not now; BIOS/UEFI are paramount these days and access to TPM isn’t possible for average computer users. One’s computer must not be susceptible to unauthorized individuals or even now it seems the owner. Murray 🙂 On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 10:38 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

I have a Tek 8002a machine, ran before I stored it, Mouse piss damage to the backplane repaired, but I want to replace the old linear supply. It's been setting for 20 years. I have 200 disks, meta compilers and crazy stuff. Not your moms computer, I think it was used at building 50, considering all the well knoiwn local engineers names on the 8" disks. I love the 14 seg hex leds and switch panel, blimking lights, The Alpha micro supermini is cuter. On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 8:45 PM Wayne S via cctalk &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; wrote:

On 2025-11-25 1:16 a.m., Jim Davis via cctalk wrote: I run my hex leds, in octal, makes for a very simple PCB layout for the front panel. Ben.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025, ben via cctalk wrote: This is an interesting thread in the whole "who owns what" category. Also, "Who understands what". I feel we've lost the ability for a single person to now fully understand an entire system. Maybe the Apple II or BBC Micro was possibly the last system that was possible - and by understand it all, I mean hardware and software.... I have designed and built my own systems - mostly 6502 and 65816 based, but that's it. One piece of the jigsaw puzzle missing there is the assembler. (and PCB layout package?). I didn't write them, but maybe that no different from a carpenter buying tools to use to make bespoke furniture. (Alt least a carpenters tools are maintainable for the most part) I even wrote a filing system for these systems - although it was based on ProDOS8. And a multi-tasking OS - written in BCPL... And there is a minor issue of what tht OS might look like... Unix Having been using Unix now since 1980 (I know, a latecomer!) it's hard to think of something that might be different - for better or worse. I have used other "micro" systems from CP/M to Flex and the briefest exposure to VAX VM/S and a few years of Primos as well as a nice little, of somewhat unique OS called Mouses (a sort of cut-down EMAS for those who may know) but ... Unix keeps coming back to haunt me. At least at the command line, and some of it's ideas, anyway. Do we own our modern computers? Maybe the hardware, maybe not. When "big corp" can remotely brick then, then very likely not. Then there's the subscription model... Almost everything now is moving to that. Fridges with advertising panels? Where will that end... Slaves to the system now and we walked right into it. (Sir) Alan Sugar once said; Engineers don't make good businessmen and having run my own companies in the past, I fear he's right. We're engineers (like Woz) but the Businessmen (like Jobs) will always win-out in the end. Share and enjoy. Gordon

On Wed, 3 Dec 2025, jim stephens wrote: It is spelled LGP-30 and LGP-21 ;-) The LGP-21 has a disk with 32 tracks and 128 sectors per track instead of a drum with 64 tracks and 64 sectors per track as in the LGP-30. There were memory extension modifications for the LGP-21, though. And I have LGP-21 modules that replace the on-disk registers with semiconductor shift registers and also add some more registers. Christian

On 2025-11-24 2:32 a.m., Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: Not quite true, Minix almost never made it out the door because IBM had undocumented logic with memory parity or something like that. The IBM emulation ran fine, not the PC. And is UNIX Comparable a good thing? What about all the lost USA and UK and USSR computers and operating systems. I have lots of operating system books. but they speed the first 325 pages on multi-tasking and the last 20 pages on a file system. Ben.

On 2025-11-24 6:11 a.m., Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: I am not impressed with Sun. JAVA runs only on Sun or windows hardware, the last time I looked. (1995?) I guess Unix is important, if that is your job. I used a IBM-1130 in 1982, here in CANADA. That computer any student could use if it was free. The next year they got a VAX. Only computer science students could use that. Ben.

On 2025-11-24 1:57 a.m., Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: No it is marketing. Amazing how 10 years after all the old machines hit the dumpsters, retro products are selling again. Ben.