Hello Again:
highgate.comm.sfu.ca has a new disk drive. From 70 MB free, we now have 5.4
GB.
The pdp-8 web site at http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8 now has tons more
room to grow. For those of you with user accounts, your files have been
moved over to the new drive, and all should work as expected.
Please let me know if you experience any problems.
Kevin
==========================================================
Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department
E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544
Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
Hi
I just bought a Philips Odyssey 2001, i know it`s a bit offtopic
but does anyone know how old it is ?. The first thing I did was
to open it up to look for somekind of infomation to it`s age
but I did`t find any dates at all. I have found a bit infomation
about a Odyssey 100 & 200, but nothing about a 2001.
Regards Jacob Dahl Pind
--------------------------------------------------
= IF this computer is with us now... =
=...It must have been meant to come live with us.=
= (Belldandy - Goddess First class) =
--------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 3:24 PM
Subject: More on "discrete" CPUs
>Having read through the discussion, I sat down and sketched out some "flip
>chip" type designs. Units of logic that could be wired together to create
>the CPU. When I did this I was striving for a fairly universal design so,
>as John put it, we could have a whole bunch made and get the benefit of
>volume manufacturing.
Good stuff Chuck. The only other idea I have is if we can standardize 4
SMALL boards and just
put them on one larger sheet they can be cut after they are manufactured
(which eliminates the double connector).
Gotta resolve yet which CPU to build (UNIVAC, PDP 8, whatever) and the
standard circuits... (quad flip flop, whatever).
To keep it small, bit-serial cpu, light bulbs :-) , flip switches and .....
?
>
>Well, not too suprisingly (ask the right question, get the same answer) I
>was about halfway through my sketched out design when I realized I was
>duplicating something I had seen in a databook, a Xilinx databook to be
>precise.
>
>The flip chips are the "CLB"s (Complex Logic Blocks) of your standard gate
>array design. The backplane is the interconnects.
>
>The problem is reduced to the complexity of implementing the FPGA
>architecture and then having the tools send out wrap lists rather than
>routing configs :-)
>
>--Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: OT: how big would it be? - PCBs at home
>
>
>daniel wrote:
>>
>> Making PCBs at home is a ridiculous waste of time. I have a vacuum
lightbox
>
>That really depends on what you want to do. Before I started a printed
>circuit mfg company, I did make them at home for considerably less money
>that it cost to have them made.
We tried use both silk screening and pre-sensitized boards in the beginning.
>
>> here as well as a commercial processing system, a silk-screening set up,
even
>> a wave solder machine in my home and nothing compares to what the big
guys
>> can do and charge for the same thing. My last *production* company use
to
>
>Again, what are you trying to do? Silk-screening circuits require a fine
>stainless mesh and a good chase unless you are only after a crude, make it
>work, type of PCB.
>
I know. We had a unit made up by a screen manufacturing place. I still have
a few steel frames with stainless mesh. It worked pretty good on small runs
but I really like to have boards solder masked and plate through holes.
>> make its own prototype doublesided PCBs in house and it wasn't worth it.
I
>> have a company I use now that will make me a double sided PCB, GOLD
PLATED
>> contacts, solder mask both sides (pre-drilled of course), and silk
screened,
>> and cut for less than a $1 a board in quantities of 500.
>
>Need to mention the board size, number of holes, and setup charges for that
>$1 a board to mean anything :).
2" x 3", he never cares about the number of holes. It was always the same
price. On 3X3 we had some discretes, a few 44 pin PLCCs and an 18 pin PIC.
The guy has done thousands of boards for me (before I shipped the entire job
to Taiwan).
BTW: No set up charges.
>
>
>> Pre-sensitized boards are useless as they usually come flawed and the
>> coating thickness is not consistant. The company I use now for PCBs used
a
>> "roll" of sensitized film that was "ironed" onto a 3' X 3' board. Far
better
>> process.
>
>Using dry film is an excellent approach used by most professional PC board
>houses, and the equipment isn't all that expensive (depending on your frame
>of reference.) Older dry film laminators can probably still be had in the
>$1k area. Of course, at a $100+ per roll of dry film, and the fact it has a
>limited shelf life make the process impractical unless a number of boards
>are being made on a regular basis.
>
Yes, he gave me a tour. He drills the boards first, then photosensitizes
them. They get UV, then he develops them in water (I think it was). Then he
electroforms copper to create plate through holes, then tins, then gold
plates, I think then he did the solder mask on both sides (I am sure that
was silk screened) and finally the boards were silk-screened (layout), then
cut. Turn around time was generally 4 days.
>> Don't forget a good GERBER and NC drill file is needed and most PCB
>> manufacturers find little problems with the files that you may not
uncover
>
>Actually there are a number of ways to make artwork; Gerber files and NC
>files are not required. An NC drill file can be created from artwork. I
have
>seen camera ready artwork produced by electrical tape on a piece of mylar
>(funny but true), produced by linotronic printers, printed by dot matrix
>printers, and a number of other ways.
>
He always wants the NC file for his "quad" drilling CNC machines, they also
carve out the board "shape". I think he uses the Gerber file to print out
artwork for the film he needs for the various processes.
>FWIW, a local shop will also produce undrilled pc boards just printed and
>etched for about $0.30/sq in total cost. This is a wonderful service for
>fast, inexpensive prototype SS or DS circuit boards.
If they are not drilled then you do not get the plate through holes :-(
Drilling is no big deal for this guy... He drops 4 sets of 5-10 boards (at
least 18" X 24") on a quad head CNC and it drills them REALLY fast...
john
>
IIRC, since this a.m. when I was reading some of thei XILINX literature, the
'C' in CLB is for CONFIGURABLE though it is complex. It's a RAM lookup
table with some gating and a register or two, depending on the type, and has
MUCH more configurability, due to the very general functional nature of the
RAM lookup table, than most of what you could have made up in a modular
fashion using elementary devices like bipolar transistors or mosfets.
Nevertheless, getting software to manage the interconnections for you might
not be so difficult. I, for example, would make up a symbol in OrCAD for
the logic block and then interconnect them in a schematic. Afterward, I
would run a netlist in "wirelist" format, which would then describe, net by
net, what the specified interconnections are. If I were to want a picture
of the interconnection, I'd netlist the thing for the PCB router and have it
route them, perhaps optimizing my physical arrangement in the process.
If you extend the FPGA logic plock concept a little bit, you can look at its
CLB as a 2-bit registered full-adder, in some cases with fast carry logic.
It could also be looked upon as a 2-bit registered ALU. Plugging in an ALU
for every gate in a design might be inefficient as can be, but by taking
advantage of the economy of scale, it could well be realistic in sufficient
quantity. That's certainly what XILINX and others have found.
Dick
From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 1:27 PM
Subject: More on "discrete" CPUs
>Having read through the discussion, I sat down and sketched out some "flip
>chip" type designs. Units of logic that could be wired together to create
>the CPU. When I did this I was striving for a fairly universal design so,
>as John put it, we could have a whole bunch made and get the benefit of
>volume manufacturing.
>
>Well, not too suprisingly (ask the right question, get the same answer) I
>was about halfway through my sketched out design when I realized I was
>duplicating something I had seen in a databook, a Xilinx databook to be
>precise.
>
>The flip chips are the "CLB"s (Complex Logic Blocks) of your standard gate
>array design. The backplane is the interconnects.
>
>The problem is reduced to the complexity of implementing the FPGA
>architecture and then having the tools send out wrap lists rather than
>routing configs :-)
>
>--Chuck
>
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I liked Hans's suggestion (which I have now deleted, alas) of a museum
> > exhibit with three identical computers...
> > ... or could you? Didn't PDP8 come in all three versions?
>
> Yes it did, but there were _slight_ differences in the instruction set
> IIRC (rather like the differences in the PDP11 instruction set between
> similar-ish models).
Differences, yes, but it should be possible to write some trivial code
that runs identically on all three models, presuming the TTY implementation
on the DECMate doesn't really hose things up that badly.
> But having a straight-8, a PDP8/e and a DECmate all running side by side
> would be an interesting exhibit. Pity I can't do it...
It's one of my goals when I complete the musuem. I have a DECMate and
some PDP-8/L's out at my new location, but I haven't moved the Straight-8's
yet (Neither have I powered them on since I got them... reconditioning the
power supply is another project on the To-Do list). At least now I have
a module map, many thanks to Doug Jones. First step is the 12Kw -8/L. I
had everything together last weekend *except* a key.
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Please see embedded comments below.
regards,
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: outgrowth of : OT: how big would it be?
>>
>> What I'm really after is small RAMs with separate ins and outs, and the
>> current generation stuff doesn't seem to address that requirement. I
guess
>> I'll have to use a CPLD or FPGA with RAM inside.
>
>I never found separate data in and out pins to be particularly useful
>(well, not unless the chip was dual-ported...). Can't you use buffers to
>link a conventional RAM with bidirectional data pins to your design?
>
>Hitachi made some reasonably fast (15ns, and probably faster) SRAMs until
>quite recently. I used the 64K*4 ones in a CCD readout system (don't
>ask...), and they worked fine. Not cheap, though.
>
RAMs with separate D and Q pins are inherently faster, in that you don't
have the delay of the output buffers to wait out. Since I want FAST here,
that's important. What's more, the output buffers then don't have to drive
the input capacitance. That saves more delay.
>
>Of course having a RAM that's too large is not a major problem (other
>than cost). You can always tie the address pins low (or whatever). I've
>seen this done on commercial boards, presumably either because small RAMs
>weren't available, or to simplify the inventory of parts needed.
>
That's true unless convenient packaging is an issue, which it could be here.
I'll probably have to use an FPGA and use some of its memory capacity as
RAM.
>
>-tony
>
WEC
4TH FLOOR
S-A/2 CUTHCI MEMON SOCIETY
BAHADURBAD , KARACHI
PAKISTAN
DEAR SIR .
OUR COMPANY IS DEALING IN MANY ITEMS , AND ONE OF OUR ITEMS ARE GIFT AND
CROCKERY .
WE IMPORT THESE ITEMS IN PAKISTAN , USA , & U.K
PLS SEND US BOOKLET AND DETAIL WITH THE PRICES .
AWAITING FOR YOUR SOONEST REPLY BY MAIL AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS.
THANKING YOU.
Here is an interesting web site I just came across..
Seems the Moore school of engineering students for the 50th anniversary of
ENIAC integrated the whole ENIAC computer on one single chip..
Pretty interesting information on ENIAC..
http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html
Phil..
Can someone help this guy out?
Reply-to: skarabe1(a)tampabay.rr.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 05:34:47 +0000
From: Scott <skarabe1(a)tampabay.rr.com>
To: vcf(a)vintage.org
Subject: ????
I'm looking for an OS for a DEC model PDP 11/53 or Later. It would be
on 5in floppy ,it is called RSX and I think is labeled DEC RX50 or
RX30. I know this is a longshot but I'm desperate.
Thanks for your time.
Scott
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
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