SInce these are electrically eraseable it's of no consequence what the
previous program was. These parts can be viewed as a relplacement for the
entire 16xN series where x=L or R and N ranges from 4 to 8. They can
effectively emulate/replace 16L8, 16R4, 16R6 and 16R8 with a few exceptions.
The macrocells associated with pins 19 and 12 have no feedback path of their
own, i.e. it must be via the adjacent macrocell. The data book (these are
AMD/Vantis parts) for the Lattice GAL parts will explain it adequately if
you can't lay hands on an AMD databook.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: chips
>>
>> I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
>> idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
>> use these.
>>
>> PALCE16V8H-15
>> PC/4 9545ABA L
>
>They're PALs. The number can be decoded as follows :
>
>16 - 16 inputs to the 'AND' matrix
>V - 'Versatile'. Each output comes from a configurable block that allows
>it to be either a normal output or a flip-flop
>8 - 8 outputs
>
>What they are, and if they're useful, depends on whether they've been
>programmed, and if so, with what.
>
>-tony
>
I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
use these.
PALCE16V8H-15
PC/4 9545ABA L
-Lawrence LeMay
These parts aren't PAL chips FOR a specific application. They're about
10-year-old electrically eraseable and reprogrammable GAL (generic arraly
logic) parts, intended to become lower-cost replacements for the bipolar
PALs. In the latter purpose they have been quite successful, in that I
seldom even see a bipolar part in boards less than 15 years old. The
advantage, of course, is that these have a more flexible architecture and
variable macrocell design than the original PALs, say, from MMI, had. Of
course there are only a few of them that are asynchronous, and those,
typically, are just copies of the 20RA10 in more current technology.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay West <jlwest(a)tseinc.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: chips
>I haven't looked up the numbers, but these almost sound like PAL chips for
>the Digiboard PC/x boards. There is a 4 port model (PC/4) that is actually
a
>lobotomized 8 port card.
>
>Jay West
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 4:06 PM
>Subject: chips
>
>
>>I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
>>idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
>>use these.
>>
>> PALCE16V8H-15
>> PC/4 9545ABA L
>>
>>-Lawrence LeMay
>>
>
Gang -
I know they're highly sought-after, but I'd really love to snag an
APL-capable IBM 5100 and thought I'd throw the question open...
There's something about those systems I always liked (even though I
didn't use one more than a couple of times in high school.) Is there any
chance that I might be able to tempt one of you elusive 5100 owners with
some combination of the following?
> DEC PDP-8/L
> Teletype ASR-33
Apple Macintosh Portable (with case)
> NeXTstation Turbo Color (minus monitor and sound box)
> HP 85 with a variety of ROM drawers
> HP 9825A with 8" floppy drive
>
There'd be some shipping issues, but I'd even be open to parting
with an IBM 1130 (missing keyboard, power supply and drum disk.)
Any interest?
> -- Tony Eros
Mid-Atlantic Computer History Museum
I haven't looked up the numbers, but these almost sound like PAL chips for
the Digiboard PC/x boards. There is a 4 port model (PC/4) that is actually a
lobotomized 8 port card.
Jay West
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 4:06 PM
Subject: chips
>I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
>idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
>use these.
>
> PALCE16V8H-15
> PC/4 9545ABA L
>
>-Lawrence LeMay
>
On 24 Jun 99 at 18:52, Tony Duell wrote:
> Yes, it is/was. Not sure if it was really rubber, but it was some
> flexible material, and it does go sticking after a number of years. The
> problem (beyond clogging the type cylinder) is that if the stud on 180540
> that 180502 goes on to is exposed, it will damage the surface of the type
> cylinder.
>
> I wonder if you could cast one using that stuff that classic car
> restorers use to make rubber parts [an aside : Anyone know where to get
> that in the UK?]. Making the mould would be fairly easy, I think.
A well known brand name is Flexane. Try
http://www.frost.co.uk/016frost.html (this is an orphaned frame...)
or have a look at the classifieds in Practical Classics. Woolies in
East Anglia are always very helpful.
I also found a spec sheet at
http://www.netherlandrubber.com/adhesive/mainrepr/flexspec.html.
Phil
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester
Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk
Here's an interesting announcement from the British Science Museum that
might interest some of the folks in the UK (Tony, now you can get a job!)
OPERATE THE BABY COMPUTER
Would you like to work on the rebuilt 'Baby' computer? This rebuild
of the original which ran for the first time on 21 June 1948 is on
display in the Futures gallery at the Museum of Science and Industry
in Manchester. The Museum needs help to keep the computer in
working order and to demonstrate it to visitors.
You should have some experience in and knowledge of electronics. An
interest in the history of computing would be desirable. You should
also be available once during the week for training and, if possible,
at the weekends for demonstrations.
You will join the Museum's volunteer programme and will receive
training on the computer's operation and maintenance, on its
background history and on talking about the computer to Museum
visitors.
The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to
work with the first computer. You will be able to learn from the
people who rebuilt the computer and benefit from the experience of
explaining it to visitors.
If you are interested in helping, please contact Jenny Wetton at the
Museum, telephone 0161-832-2244, or email: j.wetton(a)msim.org.uk
---
What's funny is the state in the second to last paragraph:
"The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to
work with the first computer."
Konrad Zuse might have a problem with this.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/22/99]
Ack! How could I miss a discussion of the BI bus? I'd better pay a bit
more attention when I'm glancing through the subject lines...
> It was open for a minimal definition of the word open.
> DEC owned the chip set and protocol and would sell you the chip set
> if your board was not a competitor to a DEC board.
I can vouch for this. The company I used to work for did a couple of
VAXBI interface boards: a quad IEEE-488 board and an interface to a
custom shared memory. DEC had to be convinced where product was
complementary before it gave you the right to buy chips.
> A number of outfits purchased the older lowest priced DEC board
> available to pull the chips for the BI bus to make disk controllers
> and such since DEC wasn't going to let anyone reverse engineer the set
> without a major patent fight.
There was a memory company that reverse engineered the BI bus, at least
enough to build memory cards. Clearpoint, perhaps? I don't recall which.
IIRC, they were bought by an I/O company (Emulex, maybe?) primarily to
gain access to their reverse-engineered BI chip.
> DEC cut it's own throat on this one and the BI bus never took hold.
There's also the fact that for the average bus transaction it really
wasn't any faster than the UNIBUS. You had to _always_ do
octaword transactions to outperform the UNIBUS (at least, the theoretical
max of the UNIBUS; and by the time the VAXBI appeared, it was starting to
be possible to get the theoretical max out of the UNIBUS. I once did a
processor module that did the UNIBUS mapping during the settle(?) (the one that
was after the deskew time) time; once that 75ns was up, the processor module
knew that the adders had had enough time to map the address and didn't need to
add any extra delay for the mapping. The processor module could
support a J-11 running full bore while simultaneously outperforming the
PDP-11/84 on DMA throughput. And it looked enough like a PDP-11/84 to
run RSX-11 out of the box).
> who left DEC around the time of the BI bus release... and has NO
> proprietary data on 'em.
I've still got a couple of copies of the VAXBI manual.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
Actually, my understanding was that at least one of the 1st PC's limited
machines were unique: 386PC's design using multiple megabytes of *static*
memory to keep up with the *blazing* 386-16 then in use.
--- James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> wrote:
> At 09:25 PM 6/26/99 -0400, Max Eskin wrote:
> >Hi,
> >I'd like to know about the various famous, complete local bus standards.
> >I've heard of:
> >ISA
>
> Posibus and Negibus from the pre-Omnibus PDP-8 series machines...
I thought about adding those, but I wasn't sure they qualified as local
busses, especially if you have a DW08 bus converter on your machine.
-ethan
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