Clipped this from the Obsolete Computer Helpline - if interested contact
Pat at the email address below, not me.
Pat Stakem <stakem(a)loyola.edu>
Columbia, MD usa - Tuesday, January 05, 1999 at 19:04:31
Does any one need a PDP-6 Macro-6 Assembly language manual?
1965, DEC-6-0-tp-mac-lm-act02
..pat
At 10:42 AM 1/6/99 -0500, William Donzelli wrote:
>
>Dammit...why do all of the surplus supers turn up overseas and not on the
>East Coast or Midwest? If this Hitachi was within 1000 miles or so from
>Carmel, New York, I might just do something foolish.
How the hell would you move 14 tons of computer???
>
>Yes, I have the room for something this size.
To do what? Move into it? :-)
>>I've been busy making room for my newest haul... the pdp-8s.
>
>Tell us -8 owners more....
I don't actually have the machines yet... I have to make room for
them first. I'll be getting
pdp-8/a
pdp-8/m
pdp-8/e
lab-8 (w/scope)
pdp-11/34 (w/vt11, vr14 and light pen)
manuals
spares
I'm going to be getting the manuals and spares and anything small
I can fit in my car first. Then I'll get the 11/34 and one of
the -8s, which are mounted in a DEC corporate short cab. Once
this is in place at home, I'll go back for the two tall cabs
which house the other three -8s and their devices.
There are no connections between the tall cabs and the short cab,
which is why that will be moderatly easy. I don't yet know if
there are connections between the two tall cabs... I'll have to
remove the systems to reduce the cab weight... so I'll be marking
lots of cabling (i expect) to ensure it all goes back together
successfully.
I will admit that I am not going to keep it all... I do plan on
keeping the 11/34, the lab-8 and the 8/e. One of the remaining
-8s is destined for a friend, and the last one I will probably make
available to someone from this list (please, NO mail at this time...
operators are NOT standing by) once I figure out an equitable way
to do so...
First things first, however. I have to GET the stuff before I do
anything else... :-)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>What boggles the mind is that this is a problem at all. It seems hard to
>believe (in retrospect) that people really did deliberately build
>software with only 2 digit years. I know it saved a few bytes, and yes,
>I remember when a byte of memory was a significant amount, but still.
>How did standard programming practice come to be so short sighted as to
>assume that software infrastructure would be thrown out and replaced on
>a regular basis?
The problem is that it isn't just one problem... it is a series of
problems, some of which have already been addressed over the years.
It isn't just that software only handled two-digit years. That is,
at best, simplistic, and at worst, just plain wrong. The fact is
that there are numerous levels to the problem. Let me enumerate
some of them...
o Boot code - Does the hardware have a calender/clock? How
does it store the date? How does one set the date? How
does it report the date?
An example of this is the 11/93
o Adapters/controllers - Do they have an internal calendar/clock?
How do they store the date? How is the date set? How is
the date reported?
An example of this is are the RF series DSSI disks... they
seem to have a built in clock and can report dates/times and
even when the device was last powered on.
Also, some devices will report date information, but only
once it is set by the host operating system - an example is
the DELQA, which reports date/time in a MOP System ID packet.
o The operating system - how does it store the date? How does
it accept the date? How does it report the date?
RT-11, for example, stored years in 5-bit fields and the base
year was 1972... which would work to 2003, but there were
other problems. This was upgraded to 7-bits worth of info,
which increased the range from 1972 to 2099, but there were
still problems with other parts of the system -- Mentec's
V5.7 addresses this.
What about pdp-8s? They have been through the end of their
epoch several times over... What about tops-10? What about
Unix, which breaks in 2038...
o The on-disk directory structure - How is the date encoded?
o Applications - Are they concerned with the date? Do commands
allow date specifications? In what form? How is date info
reported?
o *DATA* - what about all those data files which have been
recorded over the years? What form was date stored?
And I'm sure others can come up with more levels... these were just those
which I could come up in 5 minutes of thinking...
Keep in mind that when many institutions report they are working on
Y2k issues... it is probably only billing. What about hospitals and
the embedded controls in, for example, patient-controlled analgesia?
There are going to be more and more failures as we get closer. Last
year, there was a report that an insurance company which normally
issued 3-year policies could only do two-year. If they haven't
fixed the problem, they're probably down to one year now...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
(Not speaking for Compaq)
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
I found this on one of the uk news groups. It is out of my league but
someone might be interested.
--
Kevan
Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/
------- Start of forwarded message -------
From: nmm1(a)cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.misc
Subject: Decommissioning large computers
Date: 5 Jan 1999 19:09:37 GMT
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <76to1h$oet$1(a)pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
25 years ago, this was a sufficiently common activity that there were
companies specialising in it ....
We are likely to want to decommission a large computer for scrap in
the near future, and are trying to find a company that will do it
most economically and with least damage to the machine room. It is
about 14 tons (I think), and includes a lot of heavy copper cabling,
and may have more salvageable materials in the main boxes.
Any serious suggestions as to who to approach gratefully received;
I won't ask if anyone has done this recently, for obvious reasons :-)
Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email: nmm1(a)cam.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679
------- End of forwarded message -------
Kevan Heydon reported Nick Maclaren as haveing said:
> We are likely to want to decommission a large computer for scrap in
> the near future, and are trying to find a company that will do it
> most economically and with least damage to the machine room. It is
> about 14 tons (I think), and includes a lot of heavy copper cabling,
> and may have more salvageable materials in the main boxes.
I'm tempted to suggest the Cambridge University Computer Preservation
Society, just to annoy them :-)
I suspect that this is the old IBM 3084 that ran Phoenix. Any Cambridge
people with more info? More to the point, what is to become of the
software? Tapes? etc.
I'd love it but I (a) have nowhere to put it and (b) have difficulty
transporting anything over 1/2 ton.
Philip.
Hi!
I need a 2MB SIMM for an IBM PS/2 P70-386. I know they go in in sets of
two's, but for some reason, I have a spare SIMM that I found. Does anyone
know where I could find one for a reasonable price (under $10)?
I also need a display hinge (right side) for the P70. The one is broken.
It still works, but sometimes gets annoying when I try to fold it up (that's
also the side with the latch).
****this one's off-topic****
Does anyone know where to find a replacement head assembly for a Mitsubishi
MF355H-394MW 1.44" floppy drive? It's from a Compaq 5000 series laptop, and
some how the lower head seems to have disappeared. Everything's there (wire
coils, head mount etc.). I think the glue that held the pick-up (is that
the right name?) came loose.
ThAnX,
///--->>>
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
Hello everyone.
My school has an old PS/2 Model 70 (386-16, 4mb RAM). They want to install
some software on it which is on CD-ROM. Being a PS/2, there is no room for
an internal CD-ROM, so I told them I'd look into get an old external for
them.
What I'm looking for is either a parallel interface drive, or a drive with
an MCA controller card (there's one free slot). Being that the computer is
a 386-16, speed is not of importance, and even a single-speed would be
sufficient. A parallel interface one would probably be best, since they
could use it on a few of their other non-PS/2 systems (286's, 386's) that
they don't want to spend money to put an internal drive in.
I'm not looking for anything very expensive, since I'll be paying for it,
then donating it to the school.
ThanX in AdvancE,
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
PS>> Not having to do with the school, but does anyone know where I would be
able to find a hinge for the display of a PS/2 luggable without going
directly through IBM?
-thanx.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, 6 January 1999 18:45
Subject: Re: Y2K
>On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote:
>
>> about date useage outside America. I know there are 250+ million of
>> you, but we're not the 53rd state. (Yet anyway) We "ain't gonna"
>
>That's interesting. I must've missed the news about the 51st and 52nd
>states being added to the Union :)
I was acting on the assumption that Puerto Rico and maybe American Samoa
would
get in before us. :^)
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)
